Chin for a Day Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Incendium said: Not saying that. We obviously have different opinions about what qualifies as grunge but then again, aren't opinions everything? Words evolve with usage, so does the context they're being used in. If Nirvana isn't grunge, how else can you describe it? Simply calling it a rock band wouldn't work! The same thing goes for other bands. As long as we keep confining music to terms, there will be arguments. Whether people talk about Green Day, Nirvana or Pearl Jam. Why can't you describe Nirvana as rock? Most of the music of today, including Grunge has its roots in rock. If you had to sort of classify rock, it is usually centered around an electric guitar. Nirvana most definitely has that, as does Green Day and almost any music of today. This is why I don't like the use of genres, people try to stick bands into categories and it just doesn't fit everything a band does. IT is basically all rock music, whether it is grunge rock, pop-rock, pop-punk, etc.
WhiteTim Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 12 minutes ago, Incendium said: Not saying that. We obviously have different opinions about what qualifies as grunge but then again, aren't opinions everything? Words evolve with usage, so does the context they're being used in. If Nirvana isn't grunge, how else can you describe it? Simply calling it a rock band wouldn't work! The same thing goes for other bands. As long as we keep confining music to terms, there will be arguments. Whether people talk about Green Day, Nirvana or Pearl Jam. Nirvana called themselves a punk band as did Sonic Youth and Iggy Pop (they're also the stars of the documentary 1991 The Year Punk Broke) the only real grunge song they have is Paper Cuts one song doesn't make the whole band Nirvana is one thats difficult to lump cause they are FAR from grunge aside from one single song asides from a few songs they're not punk About A Girl Polly Dumb All Apologies Sliver SLTS Lithium HSB can fall in as just rock
Incendium Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, JJ1964 said: Why can't you describe Nirvana as rock? Most of the music of today, including Grunge has its roots in rock. If you had to sort of classify rock, it is usually centered around an electric guitar. Nirvana most definitely has that, as does Green Day and almost any music of today. This is why I don't like the use of genres, people try to stick bands into categories and it just doesn't fit everything a band does. IT is basically all rock music, whether it is grunge rock, pop-rock, pop-punk, etc. I agree! I don't like genres either. It just makes things confusing. Grunge is a subgenre of rock. That's what I said before. What I mean is, if I had to narrow it down further, I'd use the term grunge. Although yes, I can't use that in relation to all their songs. There are so many kinds of music out there and every band has varied songs so it is impossible to use one single category to define them.
WhiteTim Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 personally i have two categories good music and bad music
Incendium Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 1 minute ago, WhiteTim said: personally i have two categories good music and bad music Would have been a lot easier if we all stuck to these categories haha. Music is subjective, better to keep it that way.
Private Ale. Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Insomniac is a punk album because of the way it is .It came after a very famous record and it didn't follow the steps of that record ,it was different and they took risk .that's a punk attitude and only fools ask for permission of that old,punk elitist twat to call Insomniac punk. Otherwise,who cares about genres? the term "pop" is irritating ,that's it for me.
Grinch Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Ramones being classified as Pop Punk and Nirvana, STP and Pearl Jam as not grunge then I'm just going to refer to Green Day as rap. ? this is is why I title everything in media player as "Rock" or "Alternative"
WhiteTim Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 i never understood why Pearl Jam STP or even AIC got hit with the grunge label escp STP they were always a throwback 70's band to me
Chin for a Day Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Private Ale. said: Insomniac is a punk album because of the way it is .It came after a very famous record and it didn't follow the steps of that record ,it was different and they took risk .that's a punk attitude and only fools ask for permission of that old,punk elitist twat to call Insomniac punk. Otherwise,who cares about genres? the term "pop" is irritating ,that's it for me. Other than being darker and more abrasive, how is Insomniac so different than Dookie? I don't think they really started to take risks until Nimrod, which included (amongst others) a little song (which was on the dreaded pop chart for something like 40 weeks), called Good Riddance.
fukingcounterstrike Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Alan86 said: Really who gives a toss? Oh not you again
The Great Saiyaman Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 58 minutes ago, WhiteTim said: i never understood why Pearl Jam STP or even AIC got hit with the grunge label escp STP they were always a throwback 70's band to me Because they're from Seattle and that's it really. Except STP, of course. STP was always hard rock to me along with Pearl Jam. AIC and Soundgarden are pretty much metal. Hell, I always saw Down on the Upside as a post-grunge album (Much better than anything Bush put out that's for sure).
WhiteTim Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 1 minute ago, tacobellfan456 said: Because they're from Seattle and that's it really. Except STP, of course. STP was always hard rock to me along with Pearl Jam. AIC and Soundgarden are pretty much metal. Hell, I always saw Down on the Upside as a post-grunge album (Much better than anything Bush put out that's for sure). STP is from Southern Cali
The Great Saiyaman Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 10 minutes ago, WhiteTim said: STP is from Southern Cali 12 minutes ago, tacobellfan456 said: Because they're from Seattle and that's it really. Except STP, of course. 1 hour ago, WhiteTim said: i never understood why Pearl Jam STP or even AIC got hit with the grunge label escp STP they were always a throwback 70's band to me But believe me, if you think that those bands being listed as grunge is ridiculous, I've heard people call bands like R.E.M., RHCP (Yes, I am serious about this one), Weezer, Marilyn Manson, and the Smashing Pumpkins as grunge.
Alan86 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 43 minutes ago, fukingcounterstrike said: Oh not you again Right back at ya
WhiteTim Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 1 hour ago, tacobellfan456 said: But believe me, if you think that those bands being listed as grunge is ridiculous, I've heard people call bands like R.E.M., RHCP (Yes, I am serious about this one), Weezer, Marilyn Manson, and the Smashing Pumpkins as grunge. i can understand the SP one as they were very briefly on Sub Pop in the early 90's (altho they only released a 7" on the label) they named anyone on Sub Pop as grunge oh the mislabeling in the 90's
MSteve1232000 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Green Day gets called pop-punk, I think, as sort of a hindsight perspective that views pop-punk as this "movement" that Green Day kickstarted in 1994, and which lasted throughout the next decade or so. I think that's a little bit revisionist. I don't think "pop-punk" was being used as a descriptor at the time in the early-mid 90s, and I also don't think '94 was this giant watershed moment for pop-punk. Green Day, Offspring and Rancid all went platinum. Savvy people absolutely understood that those bands represented a related but ultimately separate musical tradition than a lot of the bands from those early days of the alt-rock boom, but at that time it was still just "alt-rock," and for the most part, at that time, "alt-rock" meant "grunge." "Pop-punk" wasn't really a cultural meme in the way we now know it until the "second wave." Hair metal and "grunge" had pretty much washed out of the cultural consciousness by then, and that stretch from 1999-2004 was all about the "pop-punk." Green Day and Offspring staked their claims to that second wave with American Idiot and the less successful but still memorable Conspiracy Of One, so in hindsight, it creates this appearance of consistent "pop-punk" ubiquity across that decade
desertrose Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 New Study Attempts to Definitively Demonstrate the True Meaning of "Punk" The results are sure to stir up conversation in your local Hot Topic line — it turns out that Green Day and Blink-182 are the most referenced bands on playlists that include the word “punk” in the title, appearing on 50 percent or more of the mixes. Despite how much this might piss off “KBD OOP” Discogs dweebs and other punk traditionalists, Daniels argues that Blink-182 is ultimately an accurate representation of “punk” today. “I have a theory: in 2015, Blink-182 epitomizes punk culture, just as the Ramones, Sex Pistols, Black Flag, etc. did ten years ago,” he writes. “For the masses, Blink-182 isn't just pop-punk – it's real punk.” http://exclaim.ca/music/article/new_study_attempts_to_definitively_demonstrate_the_true_meaning_of_punk
Guest Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Because Green Day are pop-punk, simple as. So were the Ramones, for the most part (they pretty much invented pop-punk along with The Undertones). Much like Green Day owe much to pop artists like Elvis, the Ramones owe much of their sound to 60s/early 70s pop songs. Read pretty much any interview with the Ramones and it becomes clear that their mission was to write the perfect pop song. For the most part their songs were love songs or throwaway ditties about surfing. Green Day were much the same, until Insomniac their only socio-political song was Road To Acceptance. They had one punk album in Insomniac, otherwise they are most definitely pop-punk (AI and 21stCB could be more accurately described as stadium-punk). The Clash were a lot of things, but never pop-punk (except maybe Should I Stay Or Should I Go). Their self-titled debut and Give Em Enough Rope are flawless punk records, and Sandinista and Combat Rock simply defy classification. London Calling is a genre bending masterpiece, impossible to label. For me they're the definitive punk band, mainly because they were so willing and able to stretch that genre to it's absolute limits. Also, the Sex Pistols weren't very punk at all. Sure they were angry young kids, but they were dumb as rocks, poor musicians, and were for all intents and purposes a boy band more concerned about making tabloid front pages than changing society.
Sarcasm Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I find it dumb to compare punk from 40 years ago to punk from the 2010'. The genre isn't what it started as anymore
Guest Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 5 hours ago, WhiteTim said: personally i have two categories good music and bad music We need a thumbs-up WhiteTim Wednesday pic so some enterprising editor can grab it, Photoshop a "WhiteTim Seal of Approval" on it, then you can go post it in all the threads for the bands that fall under "good music".
unextraordinarygirl Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Labels and genres suck! Just enjoy the music!
youngreendayvet Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Well I'm staying out of this one. Learned my lesson the first time about arguing this issue...
PursuitOfEpicness Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 4 hours ago, desertrose said: New Study Attempts to Definitively Demonstrate the True Meaning of "Punk" The results are sure to stir up conversation in your local Hot Topic line — it turns out that Green Day and Blink-182 are the most referenced bands on playlists that include the word “punk” in the title, appearing on 50 percent or more of the mixes. Despite how much this might piss off “KBD OOP” Discogs dweebs and other punk traditionalists, Daniels argues that Blink-182 is ultimately an accurate representation of “punk” today. “I have a theory: in 2015, Blink-182 epitomizes punk culture, just as the Ramones, Sex Pistols, Black Flag, etc. did ten years ago,” he writes. “For the masses, Blink-182 isn't just pop-punk – it's real punk.” http://exclaim.ca/music/article/new_study_attempts_to_definitively_demonstrate_the_true_meaning_of_punk Interesting, all the kids that liked "emo stuff" in my school liked FOB, MCR, ATL, ADTR. All the punk kids around liked Rise Against, Bad Religion, NOFX. I mean that's how i always looked at it too. But I think this chart really sums up what critics mean when they say "Pop-punk". Literally the most popular punk bands. However I will never understand how certain bands are associated with punk but that's okay. Genres are pretty stupid in the end. "Alternative" is a safe bet.
Four. Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 tbh i feel like a lot of you are just namedroping for the hell of it and are full of shit but ok.
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