Green Day in Kerrang! - Dookie as the #1 album to hear before you die, Billie Joe on cover and in Pandora comic

[WhiteTim]

And you think that when the Ramones came out they were playing a type of music that was popular?

Time changes definitions...

[youngreendayvet]

Have you heard the actual Op Ivy version of that song? The only thing that's the same is the lyrics

Does covering Survivor, Tom Petty and Lynard Skynard make any difference as well?

oohhhh okay I get it now. You umbrella everything under the term Punk Rock. I did that when I was a kid too.

Then I realized that lumping them together is a smack in the face to not only the subgenres, but the subcultures that birthed them. It's childish to think that a band like NOFX and Bad Religion are the same because their lyrical content and composition are significantly different.

Time period drastically changes the definition of what punk is, and what values are attributed to it.

I'm not arguing with you, because it really comes down to your own beliefs. But don't be afraid of looking like a dumbass when you bring a Flogging Molly record to a D.O.A. show.

Well I disgagree with you because I have always felt that subgenres are bullshit. And yes sweetheart the original knowledge is faster, but the Green Day version displays the classic ska strumming technique which Op Ivy helped create.

[WhiteTim]

Well I disgagree with you because I have always felt that subgenres are bullshit. And yes sweetheart the original knowledge is faster, but the Green Day version displays the classic ska strumming technique which Op Ivy helped create.

Why do you keep refering to her as honey and sweetheart? Are yall a couple?

[youngreendayvet]

Time changes definitions...

So the Ramones are pop punk because they sound like a popular type of music that they themselves made popular? That is kind of a flaw in your logic.

[WhiteTim]

So the Ramones are pop punk because they sound like a popular type of music that they themselves made popular? That is kind of a flaw in your logic.

You did credit sub genres... Just because YOU don't like sub genres doesn't mean they don't exsist...

[youngreendayvet]

Why do you keep refering to her as honey and sweetheart? Are yall a couple?

Let's leave my misogyny aside for a moment! (If she was a guy I would have said buddy in the same backhanded way.)

[Maid Meringue]

Also I think you keep forgetting that Operation Ivy and Green Day were both locals at the same time. They kind of grew up together. That's like saying Op Ivy were directly influenced by Isocracy.

Ska strumming...I'm really curious as to how you drew that connection because (while I'll admit that the vox are getting closer in relation), green day was already solidified in their patterns before modern-day ska was a thing.

Why do you keep refering to her as honey and sweetheart? Are yall a couple?

I was thinking the same thing. Somehow trying to remind me of my femininity to discourage me from having an opposing view? Where's that feminist gang when you need them lol

[WhiteTim]

Let's leave my misogyny aside for a moment! (If she was a guy I would have said buddy in the same backhanded way.)

So you admit you have a lack of respect? She wasn't backhanded to you or snotty to you

[youngreendayvet]

You did credit sub genres... Just because YOU don't like sub genres doesn't mean they don't exsist...

When you create criteria that only a handful of bands meet and call it a subgenre, it is kind of a farce to call it a genre at all.

So you admit you have a lack of respect? She wasn't backhanded to you or snotty to you

I took calling me a kid or saying I needed a history lesson kind of backhanded. It wasn't very nice when we were having a simple discussion.

[Iva]

*ahem*

1. It's not OK to refer to people using endearments to put them down.

2. It clearly has a different meaning when you say it to a female than when you say it to a male.

3. You could have used a "backhanded" comment that's not gendered.

What the heck happened to my poor thread, anyway...?!

[WhiteTim]

When you create criteria that only a handful of bands meet and call it a subgenre, it is kind of a farce to call it a genre at all.

But Ramones wasn't a straight up punk band neither is Green Day closest album they've done close to punk is Insomniac...

Just like Nirvana people call them a grunge band but they're not grunge is heavy set slowed down metal closet they got was Bleach

Nevermind In Utero are far from grunge

There's nothing wrong with being labeled as pop punk or whatever the case may be

I took calling me a kid or saying I needed a history lesson kind of backhanded. It wasn't very nice when we were having a simple discussion.

I said you needed to research where's my backhanded comment? Is it because I'm a man you didn't give me a backhanded comment?

[youngreendayvet]

Also I think you keep forgetting that Operation Ivy and Green Day were both locals at the same time. They kind of grew up together. That's like saying Op Ivy were directly influenced by Isocracy.

Ska strumming...I'm really curious as to how you drew that connection because (while I'll admit that the vox are getting closer in relation), green day was already solidified in their patterns before modern-day ska was a thing.

I was thinking the same thing. Somehow trying to remind me of my femininity to discourage me from having an opposing view? Where's that feminist gang when you need them lol

Like I said I would have said "buddy" if you were a guy. And i completely respect your opinion (although I disagree without) but when I stated why I disagreed with it you referred to me as a kid and said I needed a history lesson. that is kind of disrespectful, you must admit.

[Maid Meringue]

When you create criteria that only a handful of bands meet and call it a subgenre, it is kind of a farce to call it a genre at all.

I took calling me a kid or saying I needed a history lesson kind of backhanded. It wasn't very nice when we were having a simple discussion.

I didn't call you a kid, I said when I was a kid, I had the same beliefs as you. I said you were acting childish because you are driven by what you believe is true, instead of analyzing facts objectively.

Saying you need a lesson in music history is my way of saying that you need to arm yourself with more information before making claims that scream ignorance.

It's nothing negative or demeaning.

I need lessons in topics that I don't fully know - that doesn't make me stupid, it makes me uninformed.

[youngreendayvet]

But Ramones wasn't a straight up punk band neither is Green Day closest album they've done close to punk is Insomniac...

Just like Nirvana people call them a grunge band but they're not grunge is heavy set slowed down metal closet they got was Bleach

Nevermind In Utero are far from grunge

There's nothing wrong with being labeled as pop punk or whatever the case may be

I said you needed to research where's my backhanded comment? Is it because I'm a man you didn't give me a backhanded comment?

I didn't really have the opportunity to in my sentence, pal? (Is that better?)

I didn't call you a kid, I said when I was a kid, I had the same beliefs as you. I said you were acting childish because you are driven by what you believe is true, instead of analyzing facts objectively.

Saying you need a lesson in music history is my way of saying that you need to arm yourself with more information before making claims that scream ignorance.

It's nothing negative or demeaning.

I need lessons in topics that I don't fully know - that doesn't make me stupid, it makes me uninformed.

The history lesson thing seems like you were down talking to me. And I think I am looking at it objectively, it seems to me like subgenres do a disservice to the real genre? You seem to think the opposite (which I respectfully disagree with.) and you said "when I was a kid too."

[WhiteTim]

I didn't really have the opportunity to in my sentence, pal? (Is that better?)

We're going in circles here so I'll end it as be respectful don't use endearment terms as a backhanded comment just because a woman (or anyone else for that matter) has a different opinion than you.

[BeachBum]

Okay that's enough. If you want to continue, take it to a pm.

[youngreendayvet]

But Ramones wasn't a straight up punk band

Well punk didn't really have a name at that time.

But Ramones wasn't a straight up punk band neither is Green Day closest album they've done close to punk is Insomniac...

Just like Nirvana people call them a grunge band but they're not grunge is heavy set slowed down metal closet they got was Bleach

Nevermind In Utero are far from grunge

There's nothing wrong with being labeled as pop punk or whatever the case may be

I said you needed to research where's my backhanded comment? Is it because I'm a man you didn't give me a backhanded comment?

The entire green day catalog is punk bro.

[Maid Meringue]

Green Day is as punk as you want them to be

their personal attitudes are as punk as it gets. Their music...not so much in the grand scheme of things. That's like how people are saying 5 Seconds of Summer are now considered 5th gen punk. Isn't that disgusting?
Well GD was the 5SOS of the late 80s and we love them regardless. I would like to argue that Green Day is now genre-fluid.

and you said "when I was a kid too."

I'm 3 years older than you. that's kid status

In all honesty, I just like having a good debate.
If it seems like we're on your case, it's because the claims you're making will probably result in losing a few teeth at any show in real life. We're trying to do you a service.

But you can stick to your personal punk ideologies just as well and live a perfectly functioning life here on the forum and I won't think any more or less of you.

[youngreendayvet]

Ok I'm done too

[Dalya]

dafaq? I am a Green Day fan and all but there are indeed better albums than Dookie. Despite the fact that Dookie deserves to be on the list, it is still very questionable whether number one spot is a legitimate place for the album...

[Chin for a Day]

Things got really nasty here last night. I think everyone needed to be constantly reminded how funny the comic was.

[Tubbie Head]

What a shock.

Actually shocking it wasn't American Idiot!

But aw that's nice of you Kerrang!

[Chin for a Day]

On The Ramones not being hard core punk debate. No hard core punk band would cover this:

The cover is really cool though.

[Hermione]

This is cool and of course Dookie should be up there with albums to hear before you die, it's a brilliant, groundbreaking classic! Also lol at the comic

Then what is anyt pop music that is relevant to GD at all?

Pop is a broad term that has many more meanings than just manufactured pure pop music. It can simply mean upbeat and catchy sounding, a poppy melody. The Beatles had poppy melodies, The Ramones had poppy melodies, so as well as rock and punk and whatever else they were pop. Dookie has upbeat, catchy melodies in abundance (wouldn't you agree?) and that's what's being referred to with the word pop in the article. It isn't any kind of insult, it's just a description of the type of punk music Green Day makes.

[unextraordinarygirl]

I'm gonna jump in here and change the subject for a moment, I love the cartoon. It literally made me laugh out loud at the end.