Billie Joe posts photo in support of stronger gun laws #NotOneMore

[Sofouska]

You are smart enough to realize that Europe and US are very different right? What works in Europe doesn't mean it will work in any other place

plus there's not a lot of guns in Europe like there is in America so this whole comparing Europe and America can be seen as stupid and pointless...

I know they're different but you could try changing the way things work. Why should there be more guns in the US? So that the firearm industries can continue to make tons of money?

[WhiteTim]

I know they're different but you could try changing the way things work. Why should there be more guns in the US? So that the firearm industries can continue to make tons of money?

And the laws needs to be tougher I don't think any one that's sane would disagree with that

There does need to be a drastic change in America with the gun laws

I'm not in favor of banning guns like a lot of these anti gun groups are lobbying for but I'm in huge favor of strengthing up the laws sadly there seems to be no middle ground between the two and the politicians are all paid off puppets lve said earlier there needs to be someone and yes I think it'd be someone from say Europe that have no interest in the matter (as far as focusing on one side more than the other side) who can come up with a solution that fixes the problems and pleases both parties

[Cruise]

Major evidence of Gun Laws changing things up. Look at Australia. Before 1996 mass shooting were a fairly common occurrence just like in the US. After the Port Arthur massacre in 1996 and gun became heavily restricted there hasn't be a single mass shooting. In fact there are only two cases with more then one person killed by a gun.

Also the reason Alcohol isn't banned is because the majority of the time it isn't used for evil and its sole purpose is not to kill.

All I'm saying is in the US we will never get rid of them as there's so many stolen guns that's never been recovered that's on the black market that criminals knows where to get them some criminals aren't concerned with prison time or how much they get

I don't know if you have noticed but the majority of mass shootings are spontaneous or by someone who isn't mentally fit. These cases normally mean they don't have access to the black market and therefore would have no access to guns. So in fact this argument has no validity at all behind it. You also have the fact that a majority of those who have access to it are in gangs or criminal groups who usually are using them against other groups rather then going into schools and shooting kids. Also if America removes guns the industry would crash and burn as a huge portion of the worlds guns are purchased in the US.

Seriously the gun laws in the US are fucked up and when you say you cannot ban them because of the culture then that really says something about your culture then. This is seriously fucked up. As well as the mentality that seems to be engraved into so many of your minds that you need a gun to defend yourself, because the person attacking may have a gun. Well if guns are hard to get then it's highly unlikely the person will have a gun. In fact you're more likely to be killed by a Nuke accidentally dropped by your own government.

[WhiteTim]

Major evidence of Gun Laws changing things up. Look at Australia. Before 1996 mass shooting were a fairly common occurrence just like in the US. After the Port Arthur massacre in 1996 and gun became heavily restricted there hasn't be a single mass shooting. In fact there are only two cases with more then one person killed by a gun.

Also the reason Alcohol isn't banned is because the majority of the time it isn't used for evil and its sole purpose is not to kill.

I don't know if you have noticed but the majority of mass shootings are spontaneous or by someone who isn't mentally fit. These cases normally mean they don't have access to the black market and therefore would have no access to guns. So in fact this argument has no validity at all behind it. You also have the fact that a majority of those who have access to it are in gangs or criminal groups who usually are using them against other groups rather then going into schools and shooting kids. Also if America removes guns the industry would crash and burn as a huge portion of the worlds guns are purchased in the US.

Seriously the gun laws in the US are fucked up and when you say you cannot ban them because of the culture then that really says something about your culture then. This is seriously fucked up. As well as the mentality that seems to be engraved into so many of your minds that you need a gun to defend yourself, because the person attacking may have a gun. Well if guns are hard to get then it's highly unlikely the person will have a gun. In fact you're more likely to be killed by a Nuke accidentally dropped by your own government.

Yes black market wouldn't help some and its cut back on the school shootings but you are aware that school shootings are not a every day situation it's 2% what about the murderers? What about the strong arm robberies? They know where to go to get stolen guns

And your comment about needing guns to protect is true... I'm sorry if you or others on here are okay with being victims but a lot of folks aren't okay with being victims and seeing things being taken that they worked hard to achieve or watching a robber tie up their spouse maybe you are ok with that I wouldn't you sit and watch someone attack your family and not try to save them (escp if it's a child) is weak sorry that a lot of people seem to want to give criminal more rights than the victim but I believe in protecting family and yours by any means neasacary

Also does everyone forget America was founded by murder and stealing? So violence has always been our culture...

[Chin for a Day]

I don't think anyone has been saying that we don't want stricter gun laws in the US. We absolutely do need stricter gun laws. I am all for it. I think we have just been trying to make everyone understand that it is not as easy as getting rid of all the guns and adopting another countries laws.

The 2nd Amendment states that: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." However, the federal government does not govern the state laws. So, even though the 2nd amendment says we can bear arms as part of a militia, each individual state has their own laws that govern who can bear arms. I am not familiar with each state gun law, but I would imagine if you compared them there are 50 different laws. There are 22 states where it is legal to openly carry a firearm in public.

To amend the constitution, the change needs to be proposed by Congress and the House of Representatives, by a 2/3 vote. Then the change needs to be ratified by 3/4 of the states. Watch the movie Lincoln if you want to see what it takes to change the constitution. A change to the constitution, to ban firearms, would also have to govern state gun laws as well. That would be a monumental task.

[Guest]

Also does everyone forget America was founded by murder and stealing? So violence has always been our culture...

As was literally every country in the world. Hardly an excuse.

I usually blame it on America being founded by all the people too fucking weird and crazy for Europe.

[Libertine Angel]

And your comment about needing guns to protect is true... I'm sorry if you or others on here are okay with being victims but a lot of folks aren't okay with being victims and seeing things being taken that they worked hard to achieve or watching a robber tie up their spouse maybe you are ok with that I wouldn't you sit and watch someone attack your family and not try to save them (escp if it's a child) is weak sorry that a lot of people seem to want to give criminal more rights than the victim but I believe in protecting family and yours by any means neasacary

What?

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

The freedom/independence argument always crops up in these sorts of debates. Isn't loss of life the biggest loss of freedom there could possibly be? Isn't saving innocent lives more important in the grand scheme of things than you getting a bit pissy because you don't like being told what to do?

You're talking about America, here. We don't think rationally.

Putting stricter gun policy or banning guns won't stop criminals or fucked up people from shooting a person or a school shooting they will find a way to do so...

Also off topic slightly but this really fucking bugs me why is it these anti gun nuts who always want to talk about school shootings only bring up the white school shootings? Oh yeah cause no one fucking cares Compton and Dallas and Chicago urban schools had shootings long before Columbine or Sandy Hooks but oh it's black kid killing black kids no big deal white kids killing white kids oh no we must ban guns...

Question is protecting a criminal more important than protecting your self? all the "how dare anyone shoot a robber that threatening your family and stealing your things a life is more important" shit...

The idea that "laws won't stop the 'bad guys'" hasn't legalized marijuana yet, has it?

Columbine and Sandy Hook, along with Virginia Tech, are three of the most deadly school shootings in U.S. history. The reason they're so prominently discussed is because they're just that — prominent. It's different than one kid shooting another kid. These are premeditated acts by ill people with the sole objective of causing widespread terror. And the fact is, overwhelmingly, white boys/men commit these crimes.

The "shooting a robber threatening your family" thing is such anecdotal shit. How often does this actually happen? How many people would actually be able to kill another human if given the chance? It's more of a "peace of mind" thing, but practical? Not really.

Alcohol kills more people per year where is the ban on alcohol?

Exactly...

Since when has the U.S. "war on drugs" made sense, in terms of what's deadly and what's not? Comparatively speaking, weed is harmless, yet it's illegal, so...

[DookieLukie]

You don't care that 10,000 lives could be saved per year by enforcing gun control? You don't care that these school massacres wouldn't happen if there weren't guns? Maybe everyone you happen to know that owns a gun is responsible, but that is an incredibly self-centred way of looking at the situation.

Yeah because it's totally realistic to try to eliminate guns entirely. My point that I keep saying is that criminals will get a hold of guns, legally or not.

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

Yeah because it's totally realistic to try to eliminate guns entirely. My point that I keep saying is that criminals will get a hold of guns, legally or not.

Then why don't we legalize marijuana in all states, since everyone who wants it gets it anyway, legally or not, and it's not deadly at all?

[DookieLukie]

And the fact is, overwhelmingly, white boys/men commit these crimes.

Oh boy, you went there. Not going to even bother to confront this stupid statement, but crime overall in the US is dominated by minorities, particularly gun-related violence. Don't let your personal hatred of rich, white men skew this debate.

[Chin for a Day]

Since when has the U.S. "war on drugs" made sense, in terms of what's deadly and what's not? Comparatively speaking, weed is harmless, yet it's illegal, so...

Unless you live in Colorado, Washington, Alaska and Oregon. then it isn't illegal.

Most OD's in the US are prescription drugs, so no the war on drugs makes no sense whatsoever.

[DookieLukie]

Then why don't we legalize marijuana in all states, since everyone who wants it gets it anyway, legally or not, and it's not deadly at all?

We are, slowly. The social stigma behind it is strong. Also, why does everyone think that things change so quickly legally? The government can't just be like "Yeah sure sign the papers." These things take due process.

[Guest]

Basically all the people saying that guns can't be banned seem to be saying "WE CAN'T BAN THEM BECAUSE REASONS"

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

Oh boy, you went there. Not going to even bother to confront this stupid statement, but crime overall in the US is dominated by minorities, particularly gun-related violence. Don't let your personal hatred of rich, white men skew this debate.

Yes, I clearly hate well-off white men, that's why I'm married to one/I have been attracted to several/I can cite statistics that prove my point.

I was talking about school shootings and mass murders, not crime overall. And the disproportionate number of minorities in the U.S. prison system is, in part, due to our nation's institutionalized system of racism, sexist, ableism, classism, etc. that you fail to acknowledge in every debate we have.

We are, slowly. The social stigma behind it is strong. Also, why does everyone think that things change so quickly legally? The government can't just be like "Yeah sure sign the papers." These things take due process.

I never said it happens quickly. I'm just saying that U.S. laws don't necessarily make sense. Many are agenda-driven. Marijuana isn't illegal for our well-being, it's illegal because the government can't make a lot of money off of it like tobacco. And then stupid, ineffective school drug abuse prevention programs like "DARE" and others brainwash children into growing up thinking marijuana is as terrible for you as heroin or cocaine.

Gun laws are no different. It's become a political debate more than a debate of what's best for our actual well-being. It's just fun to be polarizing and argue, but in the end, nothing will be done.

[Chin for a Day]

And then stupid, ineffective school drug abuse prevention programs like "DARE" and others brainwash children into growing up thinking marijuana is as terrible for you as heroin or cocaine.

Gun laws are no different. It's become a political debate more than a debate of what's best for our actual well-being. It's just fun to be polarizing and argue, but in the end, nothing will be done.

Dare is becoming more and more ineffective. It is not even offered in our town anymore, it was one of the first things cut out of the budget. They taught DARE to our 5th Graders and all they wanted was the free T-shirt.

I hate to agree, but yes, we are going to debate over and over again and be in the same spot we started in.

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

Dare is becoming more and more ineffective. It is not even offered in our town anymore, it was one of the first things cut out of the budget. They taught DARE to our 5th Graders and all they wanted was the free T-shirt.

DARE is so pointless. As an education reporter, I refuse to go cover any DARE events when I'm invited to cover them because I know, statistically speaking, it does more harm than good.

[DookieLukie]

Yes, I clearly hate well-off white men, that's why I'm married to one/I have been attracted to several/I can cite statistics that prove my point.

I was talking about school shootings and mass murders, not crime overall. And the disproportionate number of minorities in the U.S. prison system is, in part, due to our nation's institutionalized system of racism, sexist, ableism, classism, etc. that you fail to acknowledge in every debate we have.

I never said it happens quickly. I'm just saying that U.S. laws don't necessarily make sense. Many are agenda-driven. Marijuana isn't illegal for our well-being, it's illegal because the government can't make a lot of money off of it like tobacco. And then stupid, ineffective school drug abuse prevention programs like "DARE" and others brainwash children into growing up thinking marijuana is as terrible for you as heroin or cocaine.

Gun laws are no different. It's become a political debate more than a debate of what's best for our actual well-being. It's just fun to be polarizing and argue, but in the end, nothing will be done.

No post of your would be complete without the condescending emoticon

I don't fail to acknowledge that these -isms exist, I just highly disagree with you on their prevalence. I acknowledge their existence, but I simply disagree that they are as extreme as you and many SJWs claim. We don't disagree on their existence, just on the details of what they entail.

DARE is stupid, but complaining about it online doesn't fix it. Not to bring up the classic "Like you could do better" argument, but...like you could do better. I had DARE for 2 years and it didn't brainwash me. Luckily, I grew up in a very stable home where I was taught about things like sex and drugs, but I'd hardly call DARE brainwashing. If anything, it made kids more interested in drugs, because telling someone they shouldn't do something is basically egging them on.

"It's fun to be polarizing and argue, but in the end, nothing will be done." - Exactly, which is why I find internet activism so dumb. People bitching and moaning and then nothing changes. Maybe it's time to accept the fact that the world cannot be changed, and it's bet to succeed and live without its rules than to constant be miserable about it. Sometimes you have to play by the rules to change things.

Basically all the people saying that guns can't be banned seem to be saying "WE CAN'T BAN THEM BECAUSE REASONS"

Yeah...that's totally what's happening...

[Libertine Angel]

the world cannot be changed

That's absolutely not true and the fact that people believe it angers me infinitely. If there is a general strike across a country in order to pressure the government into doing something, it will work without fail, because the government cannot possibly keep the country running if nobody's doing any work. The people always have the majority, the government depends on the people, it's simple logic that gets you to the conclusion that the people have the power and always will.

[Guest]

Yeah...that's totally what's happening...

It is. Every time I've debated with someone about this, they give fallacious arguments that are easily worn down until all they have is "AMERICA IS DIFFERENT FROM EVERYWHERE ELSE BECAUSE REASONS AND WE NEED GUNS BECAUSE REASONS". It's pure bullshit.

[Guest]

That's absolutely not true and the fact that people believe it angers me infinitely. If there is a general strike across a country in order to pressure the government into doing something, it will work without fail, because the government cannot possibly keep the country running if nobody's doing any work. The people always have the majority, the government depends on the people, it's simple logic that gets you to the conclusion that the people have the power and always will.

When it comes to guns, though, the people of the U.S. as a whole want them and don't want stricter gun control laws. If there were to be a general strike across the country in order to pressure the government to do something about guns, it would most likely be a pro-gun, not an anti-gun strike. Guns and gun-ownership are held near and dear to the hearts of the majority of voters in the United States. It's not a vocal majority, but it's a majority that has historically turned out and booted politicians out of office for holding anti-gun stances.

[Libertine Angel]

When it comes to guns, though, the people of the U.S. as a whole want them and don't want stricter gun control laws. If there were to be a general strike across the country in order to pressure the government to do something about guns, it would most likely be a pro-gun, not an anti-gun strike. Guns and gun-ownership are held near and dear to the hearts of the majority of voters in the United States. It's not a vocal majority, but it's a majority that has historically turned out and booted politicians out of office for holding anti-gun stances.

I know, it was a general reactionary post to him saying that nothing can change, which is a defeatist, apathetic attitude that essentially admits the death of democracy and accepts subservience to the ruling class.

[Guest]

I know, it was a general reactionary post to him saying that nothing can change, which is a defeatist, apathetic attitude that essentially admits the death of democracy and accepts subservience to the ruling class.

Oh, okay then

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

No post of your would be complete without the condescending emoticon

I don't fail to acknowledge that these -isms exist, I just highly disagree with you on their prevalence. I acknowledge their existence, but I simply disagree that they are as extreme as you and many SJWs claim. We don't disagree on their existence, just on the details of what they entail.

DARE is stupid, but complaining about it online doesn't fix it. Not to bring up the classic "Like you could do better" argument, but...like you could do better. I had DARE for 2 years and it didn't brainwash me. Luckily, I grew up in a very stable home where I was taught about things like sex and drugs, but I'd hardly call DARE brainwashing. If anything, it made kids more interested in drugs, because telling someone they shouldn't do something is basically egging them on.

"It's fun to be polarizing and argue, but in the end, nothing will be done." - Exactly, which is why I find internet activism so dumb. People bitching and moaning and then nothing changes. Maybe it's time to accept the fact that the world cannot be changed, and it's bet to succeed and live without its rules than to constant be miserable about it. Sometimes you have to play by the rules to change things.

You're absolutely ridiculous. Advocating equality and acknowledging disparity means I'm a warrior? Alrighty then.

You've already debunked your statement about the effectiveness of programs like DARE in your own post. You're a white male, likely from a privileged or at least stable household, so DARE didn't teach you about drugs, your parents did. All children don't have that luxury, so DARE either, as you said, encourages them to learn more about drugs, or brainwashes them into misunderstanding which drugs are serious problems and which ones aren't as severe. It's just overall not a good educational tool.

And to think the world can't be changed is a sad existence. Tell that to all the "social justice warriors" of the world who've actually made a difference. Just because you're apathetic and indifferent and are satisfied with things "as is" (of course you are, you're a white male in America) doesn't mean you speak for all of us.

Playing by the rules hasn't worked for me yet, but thanks for the advice. "Well behaved women rarely make history, etc."

[Guest]

Oooo I have another thought on why gun control is met with such resistance in the U.S. Aside from the usual arguments (home defense, 2nd Amendment, etc.) stricter gun laws, unlike most other legislation, have an immediate, negative effect on law-abiding citizens who are gun owners. It's a unifying issue for gun holders, regardless of their political ideology. When New York passes a law saying you can't have a particular stock on your gun, or you can only load x number of rounds into your chamber at any given time, regardless of the how many rounds you can fit in there, that has an immediate, stressful effect on legal gun owners who want to continue to be legal gun owners. Being told that an item you purchased legally last year is illegal this year and you have to go to the work of registering it or selling it due to the arbitrary legislative actions of people who probably don't own guns and don't understand what they're doing rubs all gun owners the wrong way. The result usually is that gun owners band together in the next election and vote for people who will reverse the law.