.Holly Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 In grand schemes 10k is really nothing compared to hundreds of millions but whatever If you are happy to condemn 10,000 people a year to death then our conversation ends here.
Chin for a Day Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 In grand schemes 10k is really nothing compared to hundreds of millions but whatever Putting stricter gun policy or banning guns won't stop criminals or fucked up people from shooting a person or a school shooting they will find a way to do so... Also off topic slightly but this really fucking bugs me why is it these anti gun nuts who always want to talk about school shootings only bring up the white school shootings? Oh yeah cause no one fucking cares Compton and Dallas and Chicago urban schools had shootings long before Columbine or Sandy Hooks but oh it's black kid killing black kids no big deal white kids killing white kids oh no we must ban guns... Question is protecting a criminal more important than protecting your self? all the "how dare anyone shoot a robber that threatening your family and stealing your things a life is more important" shit... People also seem to think that the US doesn't want stricter gun laws but don't understand that it isn't that easy to have a universal gun law. There needs to be a federal law, then it needs to be ratified by each state, etc. It is not as easy as just us another countries gun laws.
WhiteTim Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 If you are happy to condemn 10,000 people a year to death then our conversation ends here.What about the 3.3 million who die from alcohol each year? 3.3 million is more than 10k (34k in the US) Where's your ban on alcohol or you just care about guns right? And I see you ignored my question...
Hermione Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 You don't care that 10,000 lives could be saved per year by enforcing gun control? You don't care that these school massacres wouldn't happen if there weren't guns? Maybe everyone you happen to know that owns a gun is responsible, but that is an incredibly self-centred way of looking at the situation. The point is that the homicide rate is much lower in countries with strict gun control compared to countries that don't have it. The murder rate is nearly 500% higher in the US compared to the UK for every 100,000 people. Since we introduced strict control in the UK in response to the 1996 Dunblane school shootings, we haven't had any school massacres with guns or any other kind of weapon. No school bombings, no school poisonings, no school knife massacres! People simply do not do it in the absence of guns. I don't believe for a second that Sandy Hook would have happened if guns weren't so readily available in the US. The freedom/independence argument always crops up in these sorts of debates. Isn't loss of life the biggest loss of freedom there could possibly be? Isn't saving innocent lives more important in the grand scheme of things than you getting a bit pissy because you don't like being told what to do? To be fair terrible attacks can still happen in schools, for example there was a machete attack on an infants school in 1996 where several children and their teacher were injured, and just recently a teenage boy murdered his teacher with a knife. But any example you can find would've been so much worse with a gun involved (multiple people killed instead of one or none), and it happens so much less frequently as it would be much easier to snap and reach for a gun and carry out an attack than to do the same with a knife or to plan something more complicated. The fact that school massacres don't happen in countries with strict gun controls is plain to see, I honestly don't see why that isn't taken more notice of by the US. I get that the US is different as there's already loads of guns there so suddenly bringing in the exact same rules as here wouldn't work the same. But surely working gradually towards that, gradually making the rules stricter and penalties for breaking them harsher so that access to and need/want for guns gradually decreases both for criminals and ordinary people, would be a good idea? The freedom I have not to be so scared that a criminal might shoot me that I need a deadly weapon in my house just to feel safe feels pretty good to me. Putting stricter gun policy or banning guns won't stop criminals or fucked up people from shooting a person or a school shooting they will find a way to do so... They don't find a way though. In other countries it doesn't happen (or, in a few, happens extremely rarely). In the US anyone can grab a gun and go and shoot people. Having to find a gun illegally takes time and knowledge and that's a massive barrier when we're talking about someone flipping and doing it in anger and/or someone who doesn't have the criminal knowledge/connections to get a gun illegally. So much of a barrier that it virtually never happens outside the US.
Guest Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 In grand schemes 10k is really nothing compared to hundreds of millions but whatever Putting stricter gun policy or banning guns won't stop criminals or fucked up people from shooting a person or a school shooting they will find a way to do so... Also off topic slightly but this really fucking bugs me why is it these anti gun nuts who always want to talk about school shootings only bring up the white school shootings? Oh yeah cause no one fucking cares Compton and Dallas and Chicago urban schools had shootings long before Columbine or Sandy Hooks but oh it's black kid killing black kids no big deal white kids killing white kids oh no we must ban guns... Question is protecting a criminal more important than protecting your self? all the "how dare anyone shoot a robber that threatening your family and stealing your things a life is more important" shit... School shootings literally do not happen in any other country though. Because there's no guns. This isn't rocket science. They can't get guns because there are none. Literally the only other country I've heard of where there was a school shooting is China, and that was a mentally ill police officer. 90% of gang members in Ireland haven't even held a gun, never mind shot anyone. We don't have to worry about people breaking in and shooting us because no one has guns. It's great.
Hermione Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 What about the 3.3 million who die from alcohol each year? 3.3 million is more than 10k (34k in the US) Where's your ban on alcohol or you just care about guns right? And I see you ignored my question... The point is it's extra deaths. People die from alcohol and many other causes in every country. But it's only in the US that hundreds/thousands of people are killed and injured by guns. There's always going to be deaths and murders in any country but surely having a lower overall murder rate and zero school shootings (such as in the UK) is a plus?
WhiteTim Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 School shootings literally do not happen in any other country though. Because there's no guns. This isn't rocket science. They can't get guns because there are none. Literally the only other country I've heard of where there was a school shooting is China, and that was a mentally ill police officer. 90% of gang members in Ireland haven't even held a gun, never mind shot anyone. We don't have to worry about people breaking in and shooting us because no one has guns. It's great. Alcohol kills more people per year where is the ban on alcohol? Exactly...
.Holly Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 What about the 3.3 million who die from alcohol each year? 3.3 million is more than 10k (34k in the US) Where's your ban on alcohol or you just care about guns right? And I see you ignored my question... Just because other things kill more people doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do something about them. 10k is still significant. I used Sandy Hook because it is the most recent one that comes to mind. Whether a shooting happens in a rich-white school or a poor-black school makes absolutely no difference. They are equally abhorrent.
WhiteTim Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 The point is it's extra deaths. People die from alcohol and many other causes in every country. But it's only in the US that hundreds/thousands of people are killed and injured by guns. There's always going to be deaths and murders in any country but surely having a lower overall murder rate and zero school shootings (such as in the UK) is a plus? 34k died in the US from direct use of alcohol 88k died from people who were killed in car crashes of drunk drivers 15k were killed last year from guns What is more dangerous here?
Guest Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Alcohol kills more people per year where is the ban on alcohol? Exactly... Never heard of someone murdering school kids with a pint of beer. 34k died in the US from direct use of alcohol 88k died from people who were killed in car crashes of drunk drivers 15k were killed last year from guns What is more dangerous here? Guns, because they literally exist to be dangerous.
WhiteTim Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Never heard of someone murdering school kids with a pint of beer. More people in the US died from alcohol or from effects of alcohol than by gun last year... Never heard of someone murdering school kids with a pint of beer. Guns, because they literally exist to be dangerous. And alcohol was around for what?
Guest Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 More people in the US died from alcohol or from effects of alcohol than by gun last year... And alcohol was around for what? If someone wants to drink themselves into an early grave that's fine by me. They're harming no one but themselves. Whereas guns are literally designed to harm other people. See the difference? And alcohol was around for what? Numbing the pain of having to talk to Americans.
WhiteTim Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 If someone wants to drink themselves into an early grave that's fine by me. They're harming no one but themselves. Whereas guns are literally designed to harm other people. See the difference? Numbing the pain of having to talk to Americans. 88k were killed by drunk drivers 15k killed by guns Please go fuck yourself for defending alcohol but want to defend a higher killer you don't really care about the deaths you just jumping on a bandwagon if you cared about the people dying you'd be saying ban alcohol as well 88k innocent people killed by a drunk and they're only harming themselves FUCK YOU
Guest Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 88k were killed by drunk drivers 15k killed by guns Please go fuck yourself for defending alcohol but want to defend a higher killer you don't really care about the deaths you just jumping on a bandwagon if you cared about the people dying you'd be saying ban alcohol as well 88k innocent people killed by a drunk and they're only harming themselves FUCK YOU According to official stats from the US government, 30 people were killed by guns every day, but only 28 per day were killed by drunk drivers(those figures include the drunk drivers themselves, so the figure is probably much lower) in 2013. You're talking out yer arse mate.
Hermione Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Pretty sure most people are for having strict laws to try and prevent people being killed by drink drivers. For example, drink driving is illegal. Just because lots of people are killed by alcohol it doesn't mean the 15k killed by guns aren't worth trying to save.
WhiteTim Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Pretty sure most people are for having strict laws to try and prevent people being killed by drink drivers. For example, drink driving is illegal. Just because lots of people are killed by alcohol it doesn't mean the 15k killed by guns aren't worth trying to save. I'm not trying to say the 15k isn't worth saving Any life saved is important We need stronger gun laws and stronger gun control All I'm saying is in the US we will never get rid of them as there's so many stolen guns that's never been recovered that's on the black market that criminals knows where to get them some criminals aren't concerned with prison time or how much they get
Hermione Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 SO MY GIRLFRIEND DRIVING HOME FROM WORK GETS HIT HEAD ON FROM A DRUNK RUNNING THE RED LIGHT KILLS HER BUT DRUNKS ONLY HURT THEMSELVES? FUCK YOUTim, no one's saying it isn't terrible that people are killed by drunk drivers or that we shouldn't do anything to prevent it. Or that it's any less tragic if someone is killed by a drink driver than by a shooter. It's two different issues and both need solutions. This discussion is about the issue of people being killed by guns.
.Holly Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 88k were killed by drunk drivers 15k killed by guns Please go fuck yourself for defending alcohol but want to defend a higher killer you don't really care about the deaths you just jumping on a bandwagon if you cared about the people dying you'd be saying ban alcohol as well 88k innocent people killed by a drunk and they're only harming themselves FUCK YOU But drink driving is banned. Can you imagine how many more drink driving related deaths there would be if it was legal? Quite a lot more. That is not to say that there shouldn't be more done to reduce the number of drink driving related deaths. I would be in favour of stricter enforcement and harsher penalties. The same applies to gun control. If you could introduce strict gun control that actually worked (and I know this is something that would take a long time to happen), the number of gun related deaths would drop. That's the benefit. The reduction in the number of people killed overall. Plus you wouldn't have any school shootings so you don't have to worry about your children being massacred whilst they try to get an education.
WhiteTim Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Tim, no one's saying it isn't terrible that people are killed by drunk drivers or that we shouldn't do anything to prevent it. Or that it's any less tragic if someone is killed by a drink driver than by a shooter. It's two different issues and both need solutions. This discussion is about the issue of people being killed by guns. Sorry when I saw his comment about alcohol only affect the user it got me wound up for a second sorry
Hermione Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I'm not trying to say the 15k isn't worth savingAny life saved is importantWe need stronger gun laws and stronger gun controlAll I'm saying is in the US we will never get rid of them as there's so many stolen guns that's never been recovered that's on the black market that criminals knows where to get them some criminals aren't concerned with prison time or how much they getI disagree that the US could never get rid of them. It might take a long time but I think it's something that could be worked towards, with stronger gun control as the first step. Tighter controls gradually getting tighter could lead to gradually less access to guns, less need or want for guns, and less guns in circulation. Not saying it could happen all in one go but it could get closer and closer to that with the right steps taken.Sorry when I saw his comment about alcohol only affect the user it got me wound up for a second sorryIt's fine, just wanted to make sure you knew that wasn't what was being said.
WhiteTim Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 But drink driving is banned. Can you imagine how many more drink driving related deaths there would be if it was legal? Quite a lot more. That is not to say that there shouldn't be more done to reduce the number of drink driving related deaths. I would be in favour of stricter enforcement and harsher penalties. The same applies to gun control. If you could introduce strict gun control that actually worked (and I know this is something that would take a long time to happen), the number of gun related deaths would drop. That's the benefit. The reduction in the number of people killed overall. Plus you wouldn't have any school shootings so you don't have to worry about your children being massacred whilst they try to get an education. Well my kid is home schooled so I'm not worried about that lol But I agree like I've said in other posts we do need stricter laws I disagree that the US could never get rid of them. It might take a long time but I think it's something that could be worked towards, with stronger gun control as the first step. Tighter controls gradually getting tighter could lead to gradually less access to guns, less need or want for guns, and less guns in circulation. Not saying it could happen all in one go but it could get closer and closer to that with the right steps taken. It's fine, just wanted to make sure you knew that wasn't what was being said. US could never totally get rid of guns how can they last month a gun store in Katy Tx was robbed more than 600 guns were taken not one has been recovered 12 shotguns were stolen out of a police car recently not one recovered too many stolen guns that hasnt been recovered US can't destory or get rid of stuff they can't find
Sofouska Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I'm sorry if I'm being disrespectful but the 'people who want guns will get guns anyway' argument is stupid and pointless, it's almost like admitting that 'eh, shit happens and there's nothing we can do about it'. Europe doesn't have any school shootings, and it's not because kids never get bullied here or there aren't any fucked up people at all.
WhiteTim Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I'm sorry if I'm being disrespectful but the 'people who want guns will get guns anyway' argument is stupid and pointless, it's almost like admitting that 'eh, shit happens and there's nothing we can do about it'. Europe doesn't have any school shootings, and it's not because kids never get bullied here or there aren't any fucked up people at all. You are smart enough to realize that Europe and US are very different right? What works in Europe doesn't mean it will work in any other place plus there's not a lot of guns in Europe like there is in America so this whole comparing Europe and America can be seen as stupid and pointless...
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