Why are Green Day so bad at B-sides?

[Guest]

i have noticed a trend in you mentioning Biffy and i want to slap you.

i doubt there is any fan on here who wouldn't mind Green Day releasing a few b-sides. i myself want a repeat of Shenanigans & International Superhits, for American Idiot - Tre. that'd be so fucking amazing. throw some previously unheard songs in there and we'd be golden.

They're just a band I happen to know well and release a lot of b-sides

Yer gonna hate me now because Biffy have had to release 3 b-side compilation albums with a 4th in the works and they only have 6 studio albums

[Beezey]

They could also record (if not already) or release B-sides or disregarded tracks and put them on Idiot Nation and run a interactive or competiton to choose a track list?? or make their own and get it put on CD or downloaded (for a fee maybe) ??? I personally had so much fun playing "Fantasy Music Producers" that I just want to do it again. And I also personally felt more comfortable about the Gargage Rock influenced tracks when I played my silly game (man I need a life) and put those tracks like Lady Cobra and F**K Time and Makeout Party in the context of a FHT hijack secret track B-sides. But is just me and I dont think or assume anyone else is unconfortable about them - it was just for me.

I am not sure as to why another user is getting flack about mentioning Billy Clyro - they are good band.

[Cath]

Mike once said that every songs they did that were never realeased will be one day. it may take 20 years but in the end they'll be released.
it makes me happy.

[Hermione]

Yeah they have tons of unreleased songs, pretty much every time they release an album they say they wrote like 50 songs for it. I suppose it's just quality control, if they don't think they're good enough to be on an album it's rare that they'll think they're good enough to be released, and if it's good but just doesn't fit they're not going to spoil the flow of the album by putting a song that doesn't fit on there. And it seems like with the latter they prefer to wait for an album where it does fit (Drama Queen and Good Riddance for example) rather than releasing it as a b-side. I'm hoping one day they go through them and release the best some way or another, maybe put some out on a Shenanigans 2 type of deal.

I can't imagine The Network was Green Day b-sides, all those songs sound very specifically written for the project with the comedy 80's space age new wave thing they have going on. When they were writing American Idiot the Network album was just some of many different styles they experimented with and songs they wrote apparently, they've said it was such a creative time they they even wrote and recorded a whole album's worth of dirty Christmas songs as well as god knows what else. I'd love to hear some more of the stuff they came up with during the making of AI.

[Spike]

For me I must admit it comes down to the band's perception of the songs as "b sides." To me that's a term that screams "let's put a couple of songs that weren't good enough for the album onto the single release to make people buy a song they already own." If it's that good a song that doesn't fit the album, save it for a future release, like they did with Good Riddance. And just because Billie is a prolific writer doesn't mean he can't write a load of crap. Prolific songwriting is as much about finding the diamonds in the proverbial shit as it is being totally consistent. Plus, chances are a lot of the songs only get recorded as demos, which wouldn't be great quality anyway.

[brianbags]

Well, no, actually. They're songs that don't necessarily fit neatly into an album's narrative. If a song isn't good enough to be on an album, it shouldn't be released at all, full stop.

Not all albums have a narrative. A few of the songs on the trilogy can't fit into the loose "narrative" we know of. I agree with the other person, I think they're songs that are not good enough.

[Guest]

The Network/Foxboro Hottubs are not GD b-sides. that's my opinion, anyway. they have a totally different feel to them, they wouldn't even remotely fit as GD songs.

[Spike]

The Network/Foxboro Hottubs are not GD b-sides. that's my opinion, anyway. they have a totally different feel to them, they wouldn't even remotely fit as GD songs.

Oh my god, this. That's why they're under different project names, in the same way Green Day songs would never be released as The Network. I think there's a finer line between Foxboro and Green Day, especially at certain points on the trilogy, but maybe that was the point of experimenting in the first place, to see what would work for their "main" project, ie Green Day. It baffles me that some people fail to grasp this.

[Guest]

Oh my god, this. That's why they're under different project names, in the same way Green Day songs would never be released as The Network. I think there's a finer line between Foxboro and Green Day, especially at certain points on the trilogy, but maybe that was the point of experimenting in the first place, to see what would work for their "main" project, ie Green Day. It baffles me that some people fail to grasp this.

THANK YOU. same for people who say 'Dos is just a Foxies album that they released as GD' NO. NO IT ISN'T STOP THAT NOW. it's a party album, sure, but that doesn't make it Foxies.. Foxies, to me, sound psychedelic/garage at a lot of points, which is something GD would never fuckin do. they are different bands with a different sound. just because GD did one party album with a few songs that do learn to the Foxie side of things, doesn't make it Foxie.

this is now just a game of how many times can i say 'foxie' in a post. also yes i do realise that Fuck Time was originally performed by the Foxies but stfu okay that's ONE SONG

[Spike]

THANK YOU. same for people who say 'Dos is just a Foxies album that they released as GD' NO. NO IT ISN'T STOP THAT NOW. it's a party album, sure, but that doesn't make it Foxies.. Foxies, to me, sound psychedelic/garage at a lot of points, which is something GD would never fuckin do. they are different bands with a different sound. just because GD did one party album with a few songs that do learn to the Foxie side of things, doesn't make it Foxie.

this is now just a game of how many times can i say 'foxie' in a post. also yes i do realise that Fuck Time was originally performed by the Foxies but stfu okay that's ONE SONG

Foxie.

I think with Fuck Time, yeah it started out as a Foxies song, but they clearly thought it was good enough to release as a Green Day song - because let's face it, Foxboro are a band for Green Day fans, it's not like they're ever gonna be mainstream or successful in the same way as Green Day. So switching it out to a Green Day song makes sense if they think the song is good enough, which it is. At the end of the day they're the same people, they want to experiment and release stuff without dragging the Green Day name through the mud if everything turns out shit, so it gives them a good amount of artistic freedom. It makes perfect sense that they hit upon something where they thought "hey, this would work for Green Day."

[Guest]

Foxie.

I think with Fuck Time, yeah it started out as a Foxies song, but they clearly thought it was good enough to release as a Green Day song - because let's face it, Foxboro are a band for Green Day fans, it's not like they're ever gonna be mainstream or successful in the same way as Green Day. So switching it out to a Green Day song makes sense if they think the song is good enough, which it is. At the end of the day they're the same people, they want to experiment and release stuff without dragging the Green Day name through the mud if everything turns out shit, so it gives them a good amount of artistic freedom. It makes perfect sense that they hit upon something where they thought "hey, this would work for Green Day."

can we be friends i seriously think we need to be friends. everything you're saying here is so true & i agree with it so much and ugh, flawless statement.

[Beezey]

The Network/Foxboro Hottubs are not GD b-sides. that's my opinion, anyway. they have a totally different feel to them, they wouldn't even remotely fit as GD songs.

Yeah, agree. FHT doesnt seem to fit with Green Day - that is why when I have fun playing Fantasy Music Producers I put the garage rock influenced tracks in a B-side or a secret bonus track list. It was for fun....and made a list 13/14 Green Day songs from the trilogy....I had fun. Unoffical - no expert. I felt that some of the more explict garage rock songs off the albums where more of FHT - its just meant for me as a prude that I could cope with songs like Makeout Party etc...and F**k Time etc that I felt was better as FHT songs - it makes less personal and more fun and meamingless. I still would like to hear more unrealised song no matter what album it was to be for. I personally feel more confortable about those explict garage rock songs as FHT depersonalising the lyrics and not Green Day - all of the members are married or have girlfriends. No matter how they lead therir personal lives - it doesnt look good and people will start to disect the lyrics because they released them a Green Day.

I bet they have loads of hidden gems.....though....in time.....be released.

[Spike]

can we be friends i seriously think we need to be friends. everything you're saying here is so true & i agree with it so much and ugh, flawless statement.

Tom and Spinelli - debunking the SHIT people spew on GDC one thread at a time

[Guest]

Thats why they are called b sides they are the songs that arent good enough for the real albums.

Actually, not quite. "You Can't Always Get What You Want" (Rolling Stones) and "Revolution" (Beatles) were both B-sides initially. I could go hunting for a list, but I'm not all that interested in doing so. Hell, "Good Riddance" originated as a B-side before being reworked for Nimrod, and I'd still argue that the original B-side version was better. Plenty of B-sides actually are on the album, they're just regarded as lesser tracks that can't hold their own as a single. One of the most famous B-side stories is about how "I'm in Love with My Car" ended up as the B-side to "Bohemian Rhapsody". Roger Taylor, who'd written the song and performed it on the album, wanted it to be the lead single. It probably would have been a single had Freddie Mercury sung it. Taylor literally locked himself in a closet until the rest of the band relented, only because they felt like Bo Rhap was a reach as a lead single and would likely be only moderately successful. Then, history happened, Bo Rhap became one of the biggest singles of all time, and Taylor was entitled to half the royalties on a single that virtually no one had purchased because of his song. Freddie was, to put it politely, fucking pissed.

As to why Green Day doesn't release a ton of B-sides, I suspect that the band is just very picky about what they put out there. I mean, hell, they (probably) ditched an entire album and "stole" the masters because they didn't like the sound. A move like that says all it needs to about one potentially huge reason that the band doesn't do too many B-sides.

One could also point to The Network and FBHT as two side projects started with Green Day material that the band didn't want to put a Green Day label on. Who knows how many of those songs were originally intended for Green Day albums?

And my final piece of potential evidence about the band's reluctance to put subpar B-sides out: most of the non-album B-sides they put out are, in fact, good songs. Sometimes better than what's on the album. "Too Much Too Soon" is my main example there. It's closer to classic Green Day pop-punk than anything that was on AI, and I'd argue that it could fit right in after BOBD or "She's a Rebel". If I had to guess why it was left off, I'd guess that it's because it's musically similar to Rebel, and maybe a little too much like "Letterbomb" in its fuck-you content. Not a bad song, just a redundant one that wouldn't really have added anything to the story beyond what other songs already had.

So, yeah. Outside of the Trilogy, my guess on the lack of B-sides is that the band just set such a high bar for what they were willing to release with the Green Day name on it that lots of stuff fell by the wayside or hit a side project instead. That's part of the reason I was surprised Green Day did a full trilogy of albums instead of a more traditional double-album. For whatever reason, all of those tracks that might have been put aside on earlier projects were included (and, I'm assuming, resurrected in some cases), creating a lot of filler that would have been typical non-album B-side fare and plugging it onto the records themselves.

[Beezey]

Writing about you met a girl called lady cobra etc... while gushing about being happily married etc doesnt look good as Green Day regardless of how you truly live and function in your personal life.

But would definitely like to listen to more B-sides and unreleased tracks. Hopefully someday. Especially if they are more punk and thus Green Day and not garage rock. If more garage rock then probably as FHTs and thus not B-sides - it just stops people dissecting the lyrics and speculating on the meaning. or arent allowed to say that? If they want to release Garage rock inspired tracks as Green Day I think they would have to release as some kind of bonus or B-sides because some fans will dissect the lyrics like Stray Heart etc and some of those songs are have controversial explict lyrics that only seem to fuel pages and pages of speculation and discussion etc...

[Idiotic Tendency...]

Biffy have released 16 b-sides this year alone, with 4 of them being vinyl only. And vinyl itself is looking at a rebirth, as music purists move away from the mp3 and look back to the better sound quality that records offer.

Because they recorded 40 songs as apposed to the 20 released plus i remember Simon or James saying in an interview that they recorded a hell of a lot of songs and cut them down to the track list we know of so that they're not having to play and rehearse 40 new songs for live performances and that the rest of the songs will be released eventually. That's the beauty of b-sides, you don't have to play them live but you can still release them. Green Day hardly ever talk about non-album tracks.

[Guest]

At least they're not the Red Hot Chili Peppers who release about 50 b-sides per album track. So hard to keep up with.

oh my god what i get you're probably exaggerating but damn, that's crazy.

[WhiteTim]

Dos had 2 Foxies tracks Fuck Time and Stray Heart

[Guest]

Dos had 2 Foxies tracks Fuck Time and Stray Heart

Stray Heart doesn't make sense as a Foxies song at all. & as Tom said, for Fuck Time, it works so well as a GD song, and they clearly thought it was good enough to be one, it makes a lot of sense. but i still don't see why people say all of Dos is a Foxies album when it's very much not. two songs don't make that true, y'know?

[Guest]

It's only a little exaggeration! They are so hard to find because they have released so many in the past. It's annoying.

jesus, that's really insane. i downloaded a lot of their stuff recently, only actually like a few of their songs though so knowing this seems so odd to me. my ex was a hardcore RHCP fan so he probably has all of them but i never got it personally

[WhiteTim]

Stray Heart doesn't make sense as a Foxies song at all. & as Tom said, for Fuck Time, it works so well as a GD song, and they clearly thought it was good enough to be one, it makes a lot of sense. but i still don't see why people say all of Dos is a Foxies album when it's very much not. two songs don't make that true, y'know?

It was performed as Foxies in 2010

And doesnt work as Foxies but it basically Mother Mary lmao

[Spike]

Another way of looking at it is quality control - to take the Chilis as an example, they have no quality control whatsoever, some of their songs are absolutely fucking amazing but others are total shit. As a result, anyone who isn't a super fan considers them patchy. Obviously this isn't helped by all the b sides, especially when they've only released one album where every song was actually good (By The Way). I get the feeling Green Day's quality control is very strict, they want to be the absolute best at what they do. And even the best write duds - it's their ability to scrap them in favour of something better that sets them apart.

Then again you could argue that the quality control fails at times and that's why they end up releasing 3 albums at a time which are, as a whole, patchy

And Christian's Inferno.

[Guest]

It was performed as Foxies in 2010

And doesnt work as Foxies but it basically Mother Mary lmao

oh yeah Stray Heart & Mother Mary are so similar. they may have performed it, but that don't mean it works! i could perform Eye of the Tiger and it'd just be all wrong

[Beezey]

Dos had 2 Foxies tracks Fuck Time and Stray Heart

Some of the Tracks like:

Stop When The Red Light Flash

Lazy Bones

Makeout Party

Ashley

Baby Eyes

Lady Cobra and

Wow, That's Loud

sound good, but personally I feel better thinking that they would be good new FHT tracks or Garage Rock inspired bonuses/released B-sides. - Its just my personal view. I am obviously very traditional and not very cool.

Bet they have loads of hidden gems of unreleased songs.

[Guest]

Another way of looking at it is quality control - to take the Chilis as an example, they have no quality control whatsoever, some of their songs are absolutely fucking amazing but others are total shit. As a result, anyone who isn't a super fan considers them patchy. Obviously this isn't helped by all the b sides, especially when they've only released one album where every song was actually good (By The Way). I get the feeling Green Day's quality control is very strict, they want to be the absolute best at what they do. And even the best write duds - it's their ability to scrap them in favour of something better that sets them apart.

Then again you could argue that the quality control fails at times and that's why they end up releasing 3 albums at a time which are, as a whole, patchy

And Christian's Inferno.

i'll ignore the Christians Inferno jab!

but again, you make good points. Chillis are so hit and miss, i love some of their stuff but so much is effin crap. it's so bad. it's as if they just want to release as much as they can and hope the fans eat it up. where-as with GD, they only release what they KNOW fans will like. yeah, the Trilogy is the exception there. it's half pure quality, half b-sides, but even then they're fucking amazing 'b-sides'. i realise that this probably makes no sense at all but i'm ok with that

Some of the Tracks like:

Stop When The Red Light Flash

Lazy Bones

Makeout Party

Ashley

Baby Eyes

Lady Cobra and

Wow, That's Loud

sound good, but personally I feel better thinking that they would be good new FHT tracks or Garage Rock inspired bonuses/released B-sides. - Its just my personal view. I am obviously very traditional and not very cool.

Bet they have loads of hidden gems of unreleased songs.

i definitely see what you mean, but Dos is my favourite of the Trilogy by miles, so i'm very much like NOPE. DOS IS GD PERFECTION YOU SHOO NOW Y'HERE?! :lol:but omfg i really just want some b-sides okay. i need them.