Why does the trilogy get so much crap

[Guest]

"okay this time it has to be funny. what? still no?"

I also hate fridges.

[Z J]

Uhm... because he wrote it?

There's this article from before 21CBD where he goes through each song track by track and describes their meanings, and if you didn't already know Drama Queen was originally there in place of Murder City. He said it was about people growing up famous surrounded by drama and problems.

yeah you're right no artist ever has written a hollow song. I'm aware he wrote it. He also wrote makeout party and I have a hard time believing that song really applies to him either. So many subpar songs not just in lyrics but in instrumentals on the album.

[green day is]

Your joke sucks. Go home.

So do a billion people saying they hate Nightlife every day. It gets old.

[GreenDayisAmazing]

I thought they are were great albums, not the best Green Day albums ever, but I really enjoyed them.

[X-Kid-X]

I don't hate the albums, I just think Bilie got a bit lazy and forgot the part of the album-making process where he's supposed to throw the shite songs out. He left them in, and we now have 3 mediocre albums instead of 1 fantastic one.

So you're complaining cuz we *get to* hear 25 extra songs rather than a simple album containing 12. Problem is, some people actually love all 37.

If you think most of the songs are shit, just make your own fantastic album out of the 37..

I'll keep listening to all of them.

[Guest]

So you're complaining cuz we *get to* hear 25 extra songs rather than a simple album containing 12. Problem is, some people actually love all 37.

If you think most of the songs are shit, just make your own fantastic album out of the 37..

I'll keep listening to all of them.

They're called b-sides mate. They could have done a double album, like Biffy Clyro did 2 months after them, with 20 songs on it, and then release a shitton of b-sides, like Biffy did. Everyone gets to hear the songs, and you only have to market one album. It's quite logical.

It got Biffy a chart topping album and catapulted them to headlining Reading/Leeds, so they must have done something right.

[Bastard of 1969]

They're called b-sides mate. They could have done a double album, like Biffy Clyro did 2 months after them, with 20 songs on it, and then release a shitton of b-sides, like Biffy did. Everyone gets to hear the songs, and you only have to market one album. It's quite logical.

It got Biffy a chart topping album and catapulted them to headlining Reading/Leeds, so they must have done something right.

...AND C-DAWG STRIKES AGAIN.

[green_soul]

For me the Trilogy is simply different from others CD... but different isn't a synonyms of bad! Rather!

To me these albums isn't their best work, but I like it very much!

[BJ_Insomniac_98]

I don't like the trilogy, I'm really dissapointed... certainly the worst albums of Green Day

[Clockwise]

The trilogy is my favorite.....

at the moment.

But still ranks very high overall, I think. I love every song to bits.

[Hermione]

yeah you're right no artist ever has written a hollow song. I'm aware he wrote it. He also wrote makeout party and I have a hard time believing that song really applies to him either. So many subpar songs not just in lyrics but in instrumentals on the album.

Dude, Billie didn't write a song about a moody teenage girl and then lie about it. He explained the meaning of the song here (it was originally written for 21st CB but was replaced with Murder City at the last minute):

http://www.greendayauthority.com/articles/115/7/

There was another article that I can't find where he talked about it as well, he said it's about female celebrities who get exposed to fame too young and exploited by their families and the media. Just because he referenced periods it doesn't mean it's about a teenage girl, he referenced them as a metaphor for growing up and being old enough to "bleed" as in old enough to have to deal with the world and be exploited as a celebrity to make money for herself and everyone who has a stake in her fame. Just because you don't immediately see the meaning in some lyrics it doesn't mean they don't have any meaning.

Also why would Makeout Party not apply to him? Don't you think he has fantasies or likes to be frivolous and silly and write songs about partying sometimes? He said himself that the over the top stuff about having flings etc on Dos is just fantasy, lived out through his music. Doesn't have to be about real events to come from his real thoughts and feelings.

[Z J]

Dude, Billie didn't write a song about a moody teenage girl and then lie about it. He explained the meaning of the song here (it was originally written for 21st CB but was replaced with Murder City at the last minute):

http://www.greendayauthority.com/articles/115/7/

There was another article that I can't find where he talked about it as well, he said it's about female celebrities who get exposed to fame too young and exploited by their families and the media. Just because he referenced periods it doesn't mean it's about a teenage girl, he referenced them as a metaphor for growing up and being old enough to "bleed" as in old enough to have to deal with the world and be exploited as a celebrity to make money for herself and everyone who has a stake in her fame. Just because you don't immediately see the meaning in some lyrics it doesn't mean they don't have any meaning.

Also why would Makeout Party not apply to him? Don't you think he has fantasies or likes to be frivolous and silly and write songs about partying sometimes? He said himself that the over the top stuff about having flings etc on Dos is just fantasy, lived out through his music. Doesn't have to be about real events to come from his real thoughts and feelings.

Right yeah the other guy showed it to me. Drama Queen now excluded from list of songs I don't buy. And there is nothing "fantasy" like about Dos based on what the songs describe it sounds like a pretty horrible fantasy. I get you're one of the people who thinks GD does no wrong I have already had this discourse with you. No matter what I say you've got a reason why the song is good. The lyrics seem sophomoric and it's not like it's melodic or good enough instrumentally to cover that. Maybe it's a personal preference but a more mature song like Brutal Love>>Makeout Party

[green day is]

Dude, Billie didn't write a song about a moody teenage girl and then lie about it. He explained the meaning of the song here (it was originally written for 21st CB but was replaced with Murder City at the last minute):

http://www.greendayauthority.com/articles/115/7/

There was another article that I can't find where he talked about it as well, he said it's about female celebrities who get exposed to fame too young and exploited by their families and the media. Just because he referenced periods it doesn't mean it's about a teenage girl, he referenced them as a metaphor for growing up and being old enough to "bleed" as in old enough to have to deal with the world and be exploited as a celebrity to make money for herself and everyone who has a stake in her fame. Just because you don't immediately see the meaning in some lyrics it doesn't mean they don't have any meaning.

Also why would Makeout Party not apply to him? Don't you think he has fantasies or likes to be frivolous and silly and write songs about partying sometimes? He said himself that the over the top stuff about having flings etc on Dos is just fantasy, lived out through his music. Doesn't have to be about real events to come from his real thoughts and feelings.

I can never ever find that other article for some reason. There used to videos with it too.

No matter what I say you've got a reason why the song is good.

Nobody said Makeout Party was good, just that it does have meaning.

[Clockwise]

Makeout Party is such a fun jam. It's almost animalistic, down and dirty, etc. I think it captures a feeling that most people have, but won't ever talk about.

[yeslek]

After my joke thread aka the trilogy and american idiot connections it got my thinking. Why does the trilogy get so much crap. I love all three albums. I think it's a solid 37 track adventure. Leave your opinions why people hate it. I love it

I personally love them (though more Uno and Tre though mind)

After two high concept albums, to release a bunch of excellent, non-subject specific songs was perfect IMO

Sadly, many people dont like the non-power chord stuff the band does. Personally, I love the albums more BECAUSE they vary and are so different. I mean, if you listen to the albums in order, sure you can hear the slow change/growth, but if you grab say Kerplunk and play it next to say Dos you'd NEVER guess it was the same band, yet both albums are full of great songs. Not many bands can handle the growth thing but GD have been so up and down sales/success wise that it should no longer matter if X didnt sell as much as Y so long as the songs are still decent enough.

[Hermione]

Right yeah the other guy showed it to me. Drama Queen now excluded from list of songs I don't buy. And there is nothing "fantasy" like about Dos based on what the songs describe it sounds like a pretty horrible fantasy. I get you're one of the people who thinks GD does no wrong I have already had this discourse with you. No matter what I say you've got a reason why the song is good. The lyrics seem sophomoric and it's not like it's melodic or good enough instrumentally to cover that. Maybe it's a personal preference but a more mature song like Brutal Love>>Makeout Party

I don't think there's anything wrong with preferring the more mature songs or disliking the less mature songs. But just because you don't like the less mature songs it doesn't mean they're fake and uninspired and don't "apply" to Billie. Billie isn't you , the songs you don't like apply to him just as much as the songs you do like. He wrote them all and he meant them all.

I'd agree with you that the whole of Dos including the ending would be a pretty horrible fantasy , but he was only talking about certain elements of it. The album is about giving into temptation (the rock and roll lifestyle, partying, drinking, sleeping around etc), the good and bad sides of that, and then the consequences. The sleeping around and living a totally hedonistic rock and roll lifestyle are the "fantasy" parts he was referring to - the things he might sometimes fantasize about and want to write about when he's writing dirty rock and roll music, but that he resists the temptation of in real life. Not saying you have to think the song is good. Just that just because you don't think it's good it doesn't mean it has no meaning or isn't genuine.

[Z J]

I personally love them (though more Uno and Tre though mind)

After two high concept albums, to release a bunch of excellent, non-subject specific songs was perfect IMO

Sadly, many people dont like the non-power chord stuff the band does. Personally, I love the albums more BECAUSE they vary and are so different. I mean, if you listen to the albums in order, sure you can hear the slow change/growth, but if you grab say Kerplunk and play it next to say Dos you'd NEVER guess it was the same band, yet both albums are full of great songs. Not many bands can handle the growth thing but GD have been so up and down sales/success wise that it should no longer matter if X didnt sell as much as Y so long as the songs are still decent enough.

Seems more to me like the trilogy was a step backward as far as growth is concerned. The instrumentation, lyrics, and impact of the albums all went backward from the previous two. And their style didn't really change either. Dos was different to an extent but is it really "growth" when they did essentially the same thing with FBHT (and did it better). Uno didn't give us anything new and invigorating as far GD's style goes and Tre wasn't any different style wise either, except for Brutal Love. Not saying the band HAS to change things for the album to be good but look at what they've done with all of their previous albums in regards to style of play:

Dookie: extention of their wall-to-wall fast pop punk melodies

Insomniac: Edgier and angrier and purer punk music.

Nimrod: Straying away from their usual 3 minute melody driven songs and increasing instrument experimentation and broadening the use of acoustic guitars

Warning: Move in to more outward issues than internal issues from lyrics POV. Songs more politically driven.

American Idiot: Politcal and epic with little resemblance to anything they'd done before. Broke down common song structures even further with addition of a rock opera to their catalog

21CB: Another rock opera but instead the emphasis is on the piano and billie's vocals.

With the trilogy they attempted to make it more about the story within the song rather than the song and how it relates to the story. But they didn't do anything special with it. Weak guitars, lyrics that are lacking, and poor production on Billie's voice and you have yourself an album that went backwards, not forward.

I don't think there's anything wrong with preferring the more mature songs or disliking the less mature songs. But just because you don't like the less mature songs it doesn't mean they're fake and uninspired and don't "apply" to Billie. Billie isn't you , the songs you don't like apply to him just as much as the songs you do like. He wrote them all and he means them all.

Is it not telling that a lot of these trilogy songs aren't getting any play time on tour? It's definitely plausible that he can write a song for the sake of writing a song. Is that the case w/ Makeout Party? IDK, but I do know that it wouldn't be the first time a band has. "Missing You" comes to mind. The lyrics could certainly apply to billie, they could apply to anyone but the way they talked about it in Cuatro didn't make it seem like it meant so much to them. It seemed (and this is my interpretation) that they just wanted to have a broad, widely appealing lyric to match mike's very catchy bass line.

Whether that's true or not is up for debate. GD is very good at writing songs but when the stuff you write at 20 (Dookie) is miles away better than what you write at 40 then I think it's fair to say they could have done better. And they didn't make up for it with great instrumentation or absurdly catchy melodies for the most part. That's why the trilogy falls at the bottom of GD albums for me ahead of only 39/Smooth

[JardyOfSuburbia]

Because it isn't Dookie. I love the trilogy.

[Hermione]

Is it not telling that a lot of these trilogy songs aren't getting any play time on tour? It's definitely plausible that he can write a song for the sake of writing a song. Is that the case w/ Makeout Party? IDK, but I do know that it wouldn't be the first time a band has. "Missing You" comes to mind. The lyrics could certainly apply to billie, they could apply to anyone but the way they talked about it in Cuatro didn't make it seem like it meant so much to them. It seemed (and this is my interpretation) that they just wanted to have a broad, widely appealing lyric to match mike's very catchy bass line.

Whether that's true or not is up for debate. GD is very good at writing songs but when the stuff you write at 20 (Dookie) is miles away better than what you write at 40 then I think it's fair to say they could have done better. And they didn't make up for it with great instrumentation or absurdly catchy melodies for the most part. That's why the trilogy falls at the bottom of GD albums for me ahead of only 39/Smooth

It might be that the lyrics meant more to him at the time he wrote them. Given the fact that he's been to rehab and so much has changed since then I don't think it'd be surprising that he wouldn't particularly want to revisit the memories of the time leading up to that by playing the songs that it inspired. Like you say there's no way to know if that's true, but that's my gut feeling.

I like the new lyrics just as much as the old, just in a different way. They have a different style and subject matter but I think they're still great and full of meaning. But yeah, that's just a matter of personal taste really.

[Flyingdonutz]

The trilogy lacks lyrics that the wide majority of Green Day fans started listening to them for. They lack the symbolistic meaning that trigger deep thoughts and emotions that American Idiot and 21st Century Breakdown had TO MOST FANS. The sound itself wasn't the angry, fast, punk sound every single Green Day fan is used to. Since Dookie, Green Day has made millions of fans with each album because they all have one massive radio hit on them. The Trilogy had Oh Love- that's it. So Green Day didn't lose popularity, but certainly didn't gain any in the mainstream audience.

They are excellent instrumentally but they don't have the right Green Day sound to me, and even if they did, the lyrics feel like a weak attempt to redo Dookie and connect with a young fanbase, something Billie could do before he hit 30 because he's not quite a matured adult yet, but as a full grown man in his 40's writing a song about a Makeout party and collabing with "a girl named lady cobra", it just doesn't feel the same.

But don't get me wrong- I still think the trilogy are good albums, but they don't go farther than good. At best, they're with Warning in terms of quality in writing for me personally. But every other Green Day album I think has at least reached a point where it could be called great. 20-30 years from now when Green Day is playing in their final tour (hopefully its that long :/) and getting ready for retirement, Dookie and American Idiot will be their focus, and they'll sprinkle in stuff from the rest of their discography, but they might play as many songs from the Trilogy as they do an album like 21st Century Breakdown, because they were their least popular albums with the fans and the media.

And something I'd like to point out is had the albums been promoted properly like 21st Century Breakdown and American Idiot were I think the albums would have been a huge success with teens because of the weak lyrics and repetitive hooks. For a little while, anyway. The trilogy was a fail on every point for Green Day commercially, because everything broke down, marketing, promotion, writing, and Billie Joe himself.

So yeah. Wall o' text.

[green day is]

They are excellent instrumentally but they don't have the right Green Day sound to me, and even if they did, the lyrics feel like a weak attempt to redo Dookie and connect with a young fanbase, something Billie could do before he hit 30 because he's not quite a matured adult yet, but as a full grown man in his 40's writing a song about a Makeout party and collabing with "a girl named lady cobra", it just doesn't feel the same.

Yeah but him and Lady Cobra are actually friends, and she isn't even popular. I doubt they did Nightlife for any superficial reasons.

[Hermione]

Yeah but him and Lady Cobra are actually friends, and she isn't even popular. I doubt they did Nightlife for any superficial reasons.

Also, he's not trying to pretend to be younger than he is or particularly connect to a young fanbase with those lyrics. They're about a mid-life crisis, an almost middle aged man fantasizing about going wild and giving into temptation, and exploring what the good and bad sides (and the eventual consequences) of that would be. The lyrics of these albums are miles away from Dookie, totally different perspective and subject matter.

[yeslek]

Seems more to me like the trilogy was a step backward as far as growth is concerned. The instrumentation, lyrics, and impact of the albums all went backward from the previous two. And their style didn't really change either. Dos was different to an extent but is it really "growth" when they did essentially the same thing with FBHT (and did it better). Uno didn't give us anything new and invigorating as far GD's style goes and Tre wasn't any different style wise either, except for Brutal Love. Not saying the band HAS to change things for the album to be good but look at what they've done with all of their previous albums in regards to style of play:

Dookie: extention of their wall-to-wall fast pop punk melodies

Insomniac: Edgier and angrier and purer punk music.

Nimrod: Straying away from their usual 3 minute melody driven songs and increasing instrument experimentation and broadening the use of acoustic guitars

Warning: Move in to more outward issues than internal issues from lyrics POV. Songs more politically driven.

American Idiot: Politcal and epic with little resemblance to anything they'd done before. Broke down common song structures even further with addition of a rock opera to their catalog

21CB: Another rock opera but instead the emphasis is on the piano and billie's vocals.

With the trilogy they attempted to make it more about the story within the song rather than the song and how it relates to the story. But they didn't do anything special with it. Weak guitars, lyrics that are lacking, and poor production on Billie's voice and you have yourself an album that went backwards, not forward.

Is it not telling that a lot of these trilogy songs aren't getting any play time on tour? It's definitely plausible that he can write a song for the sake of writing a song. Is that the case w/ Makeout Party? IDK, but I do know that it wouldn't be the first time a band has. "Missing You" comes to mind. The lyrics could certainly apply to billie, they could apply to anyone but the way they talked about it in Cuatro didn't make it seem like it meant so much to them. It seemed (and this is my interpretation) that they just wanted to have a broad, widely appealing lyric to match mike's very catchy bass line.

Whether that's true or not is up for debate. GD is very good at writing songs but when the stuff you write at 20 (Dookie) is miles away better than what you write at 40 then I think it's fair to say they could have done better. And they didn't make up for it with great instrumentation or absurdly catchy melodies for the most part. That's why the trilogy falls at the bottom of GD albums for me ahead of only 39/Smooth

granted the AI and 21CB albums, in some ways, are 'better', but then again both albums were built on different foundations (as were many albums - different headspaces etc) - they WANTED to create a big, epic concept/story of an album, so naturally, with a bigger/higher goal, they are going to push themselves that much more. But with the trilogy, they just wanted to write music, with no grand plan, of which they accomplished. Simple as that.

I think your definition of growth may also vary slightly from mine. To me, growth is not just technical improvements, and/or honing a craft, but trying new things, and stepping into new grounds, maybe even out of ones comfort zone. Which, to me, is what they did do with the trilogy - the sound is different to anything they have done before, even if the solo's, lyrics, drums etc dont break any new and awing grounds.

Would I be wrong in thinking you view the trilogy as a bit more on the 'soft' side?

[dangreenday]

Awesome albums !!

[yeslek]

Right yeah the other guy showed it to me. Drama Queen now excluded from list of songs I don't buy. And there is nothing "fantasy" like about Dos based on what the songs describe it sounds like a pretty horrible fantasy. I get you're one of the people who thinks GD does no wrong I have already had this discourse with you. No matter what I say you've got a reason why the song is good. The lyrics seem sophomoric and it's not like it's melodic or good enough instrumentally to cover that. Maybe it's a personal preference but a more mature song like Brutal Love>>Makeout Party

you realise that just as often as songs are written from a persons POV, there are just as many written either via the headspace of another (through empathy I'm guessing) or by putting oneself in another's shoes? There are also some songs that are a little auto-biographical but take on the form of a character or something else, or even blend into a bit of both? There's a Pink song called Save My Life where she starts singing about a friends drug/depression etc problem, and the last verse she talking to herself about the same thing = perfect blending of similar subject matter. Heck, didnt Billie even say Jimmy and JOS were elements of himself that were then built on to create the characters?

Lyrics are just a way of explaining something from whatever point of view. Doesn't alway have to be a persons fantasy, it could be as simple as how they view X, Y or Z, with that view possibly not being the correct or whole picture.

Plus, any form or art is little more than the artists interpretation of something, be it an object, emotion, situation etc, so saying yo dont 'buy' a song, to me, either means you just dont like it, or worse, you dont understand it (by the way, you dont need to lie a song to understand it. I'll be honest, I'm not too fond of Drama Queen, but I get and respect it.) If you listen to the lyrics and what BJA said about the meaning, its perfectly clear what he's on about (least to me it is), and therefore the song does its job very well, and IS infact good...whether you, I, or anyone else enjoy it or not, is a different matter altogether.