Green Day's ¡Uno! advertising in Japan [awesome]

[nezda86]

Even if the end justifies the means, the end can wind up being misconstrued because of the means. The end is what defines success, but the means is what defines who you are - your character, how people view you, and what destination you will end up in for the future.

I totally agree with your explanation. It is nothing like my motto, it only came to me as very fitting expression for this situation and sometimes for whole business. The only result is profit and sometimes is for some people not important what really stand behind it.

[HolyHandGrenade]

I totally agree with your explanation. It is nothing like my motto, it only came to me as very fitting expression for this situation and sometimes for whole business. The only result is profit and sometimes is for some people not important what really stand behind it.

That's ok. I was pointing out the flaws in the marketing, not your actual post

[Tommy's Tonsils]

I am no prude, I am no feminist, I don´t live in America and still I don´t approve of this idea because it´s simply not good enough for me. I think I have at least the right to say the first association, that I still think was not a bit off, it smells of porn. I´m not going to repeat what I have already posted.

Yeah, I don´t know much about Japan, I don´t know much about Czech Republic either, I only posted what I felt and still feel.

(If you believe that men and women are equal and that the gender norms we force on each other are harmful, then you are a feminist. Just sayin'. People tend to not know what that term means or are scared of it, but it's nothing to be scared of. It's something worth identifying with. )

[Awesompawsome]

I think you might be the ignorant 13 year old seeking attention I truly hope you learn how to be a reasonable person before you get older.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, even though you are truly wrong I truly hope you get smarter before you get older

Nope you know what, fuck it I'm right, you can accept it or not I couldn't care less anymore

Excuse me, we don't speak to each other like that here. If you disagree then explain why in a civilized manner, don't be rude and abusive. If you speak to another member like that again you'll be warned.

Ok I'll censor myself and use "better" words like dumb absurd stupid and so on

[Hermione]

We'll just have to agree to disagree, even though you are truly wrong I truly hope you get smarter before you get older

Nope you know what, fuck it I'm right, you can accept it or not I couldn't care less anymore

Ok I'll censor myself and use "better" words like dumb absurd stupid and so on

No, it's not about swearing. Swearing is allowed, but swearing aggressively AT another member, or just being aggressive or insulting towards another member whether you're swearing or not, is not allowed. If you disagree with someone you should explain why calmly and politely, have a civilized discussion you know? You don't need to get angry and make personal insults just because you don't have the same point of view (for example calling someone a "fucking attention whore" just because they have a different opinion on an advertising campaign to you).

So I'll say it again, don't be rude and aggressive towards people on here. It's against the rules and it won't be tolerated. If you read this thread you'll see there's plenty of other people who've posted disagreeing points of view without being rude, if you want to debate things on here you need to do the same.

[isuckatthesethings]

I guess, to clarify, I'm aware that this is a popular fashion in Japan. There are some objectifying and sexist facets of Japan's fashion and pop culture. It's also totally ok for girls to wear skirts and high socks if they want to. That's not really the issue here.

There's a really interesting Ted Talk that talks about sexual objectification, and the speaker shows this list as one way to tell if an advertisement or image is sexually objectifying:

1. Does the image show only parts of a sexualized person's body?

2. Does the image present a sexualized person as a stand-in for an object?

3. Does the image show a sexualized person as interchangeable?

4. Does the image affirm the idea of violating the bodily integrity of a sexualized person that can't consent?

5. Does the image suggest that sexual availability is the defining characteristic of the person?

6. Does the image show a sexualized person as a commodity (something that can be bought and sold)?

7. Does the image treat a sexualized person's body as a canvas?

While this isn't a definitive list, I think it's pretty valuable when assessing instances like this because it's really hard for people to tell when they're looking at a sexually objectifying image. We're surrounded by things like this every day to the point that we've just accepted it as normal and can't always identify it. In this particular case, this form of advertising seems to fulfill 3 and 7 above. Like, to use your thighs, a sexualized body part, as a canvas on which to place this advertisement is objectifying. And all of these girls are interchangeable; they aren't considered individual people, they're all the same in that they're all cute girls in the same clothing all satisfying the same message in the same way. They aren't acting, they are being acted upon; they aren't able to use any of their agency because the purpose of this kind of advertising is to force people to look AT them while they just stand there and allow the gaze of others to hit them.

I'm not like, a prude, I'm not easily offended, and I don't really care about this particular case. But this kind of subtle sexism and sexual objectification is part of a really big problem with societies around the world, and to talk about it as something that's awesome is part of the problem.

Don't take it so hard, it's not like they have to put it on their boobs or something.

[Tommy's Tonsils]

Don't take it so hard, it's not like they have to put it on their boobs or something.

That's not the point, though. I'm not personally offended or anything, but this kind of advertising, regardless of what it's for, is perpetuating a much bigger problem. It's just really hard for people in the west who have privilege to actually really see these problems because we don't always necessarily experience the backlash from this kinda stuff. It's kind of unfortunate how brainwashed (for lack of a better word) we are into accepting advertising like this without questioning the way that it's using us :/

We'll just have to agree to disagree, even though you are truly wrong I truly hope you get smarter before you get older

Nope you know what, fuck it I'm right, you can accept it or not I couldn't care less anymore

Ok I'll censor myself and use "better" words like dumb absurd stupid and so on

lol

edit: I'm really not trying to be difficult. I'm trying to be helpful. My basic message is: it's totally not punk rock (or whatever the fuck) of us to like advertising campaigns that are using the stereotypical gender role of female sexuality to appeal to the stereotypical gender role male sexuality to make money off of us because they think we're all stupid. This is basically an ad campaign assuming that everyone is stupid and will buy a product because they think all we care about is having sex with hot strangers. I'd like to think that most of us are actually smarter than that and occupy our brains with more than just sex, and that we wouldn't let ourselves be taken advantage of to the point where we LIKE that a company is trying to SELL something. Fuck that.

Ok, I'll be quiet now. I think I've made myself clear.

[tvrman]

edit: This is basically an ad campaign assuming that everyone is stupid and will buy a product because they think all we care about is having sex with hot strangers.

No it is not, that is just your 'western' view. Research teenage and fashion culture in Japan.

[J&TheNight]

(If you believe that men and women are equal and that the gender norms we force on each other are harmful, then you are a feminist. Just sayin'. People tend to not know what that term means or are scared of it, but it's nothing to be scared of. It's something worth identifying with. )

Actually that's wrong. Feminism applies strictly to females, hence it's name. What you just described is Humanitarianism.

No it is not, that is just your 'western' view. Research teenage and fashion culture in Japan.

Exactly! there is nothing sexual about this in the least bit.

Also, to those complaining, you are arguing that these 18+ (yes, all are legal adults) women are being objectified because they are willingly (yes, I looked it up, many asked for it because of their green day fandom) wearing normal outfits (no, they aren't all wearing school girl outfits. In fact most aren't) and a temporary tattoo that washes away after a few hours as well as being paid for simply walking around with it on their leg. If you find glancing at a big green/blue/orange square on someones leg as sexual then the problem here lies with yourself and how you interpret this innocent situation.

[nezda86]

(If you believe that men and women are equal and that the gender norms we force on each other are harmful, then you are a feminist. Just sayin'. People tend to not know what that term means or are scared of it, but it's nothing to be scared of. It's something worth identifying with. )

No I certainly don´t believe in full equality. They should have of course same rights, adequate salary for identical work but as we all know women and men differ in at least emotional and physical side and it certainly results in no equality. I believe in justice and equality in dependance of circumstances but I don´t know I think it´s not full feminism.

[nezda86]

That's not the point, though. I'm not personally offended or anything, but this kind of advertising, regardless of what it's for, is perpetuating a much bigger problem. It's just really hard for people in the west who have privilege to actually really see these problems because we don't always necessarily experience the backlash from this kinda stuff. It's kind of unfortunate how brainwashed (for lack of a better word) we are into accepting advertising like this without questioning the way that it's using us :/

lol

edit: I'm really not trying to be difficult. I'm trying to be helpful. My basic message is: it's totally not punk rock (or whatever the fuck) of us to like advertising campaigns that are using the stereotypical gender role of female sexuality to appeal to the stereotypical gender role male sexuality to make money off of us because they think we're all stupid. This is basically an ad campaign assuming that everyone is stupid and will buy a product because they think all we care about is having sex with hot strangers. I'd like to think that most of us are actually smarter than that and occupy our brains with more than just sex, and that we wouldn't let ourselves be taken advantage of to the point where we LIKE that a company is trying to SELL something. Fuck that.

Ok, I'll be quiet now. I think I've made myself clear.

I think it´s the best idea and unfortunately inevitable. It´s like banging your (our) head against the brick wall. It´s quite noticeable that the ones on the other side of the barricade are mainly boys and men. This is a worthless fight.

[tvrman]

I think it´s the best idea and unfortunately inevitable. It´s like banging your (our) head against the brick wall. It´s quite noticeable that the ones on the other side of the barricade are mainly boys and men. This is a worthless fight.

That is a pretty feeble argument, based on ignorance and a refusal to accept that people are different and have different outlooks in other parts of the world, rather than on any cultural knowledge. Some of us know what we are talking about, and in this person's case, have been to Japan and can write based upon experience. But I suppose to people like you, as I am man I do not count.

[J&TheNight]

That is a pretty feeble argument, based on ignorance and a refusal to accept that people are different and have different outlooks in other parts of the world, rather than on any cultural knowledge. Some of us know what we are talking about, and in this person's case, have been to Japan and can write based upon experience. But I suppose to people like you, as I am man I do not count.

I completely agree with you! It's funny that you said that because their argument of "it's mostly men" is just as bad as what they are arguing against! XD

[Tommy's Tonsils]

Y'all, I'm seriously just trying to say that companies trying to sell us stuff aren't cool and they're always trying to undermine our intelligence. To think that they ever have our best interests in mind is kind of silly. And to use PEOPLE (and their sexuality) as advertisements is really taking advantage of us, and us wanting to be a part of that is really just an example of how desensitized we are to this system. I know I said I was done but I keep getting the impression that most people think I'm trying to argue, but actually I'm just trying to be helpful and have a conversation about this topic.

No it is not, that is just your 'western' view. Research teenage and fashion culture in Japan.

I'm not talking about the fashion culture. I'm talking about the advertising. The advertising is taking advantage of Japan's fashion culture in an attempt to make money.

Actually that's wrong. Feminism applies strictly to females, hence it's name. What you just described is Humanitarianism.

Exactly! there is nothing sexual about this in the least bit.
Also, to those complaining, you are arguing that these 18+ (yes, all are legal adults) women are being objectified because they are willingly (yes, I looked it up, many asked for it because of their green day fandom) wearing normal outfits (no, they aren't all wearing school girl outfits. In fact most aren't) and a temporary tattoo that washes away after a few hours as well as being paid for simply walking around with it on their leg. If you find glancing at a big green/blue/orange square on someones leg as sexual then the problem here lies with yourself and how you interpret this innocent situation.

Feminism, while founded on the basis of women's rights, now seeks to explore the deconstruction of the patriarchy. No, this does not mean that feminism is anti-man. The patriarchy is harmful to people of ALL genders, and it forces people to stick to gender stereotypes even if they don't feel like they fit with those gender stereotypes. While looking up the definition of feminism doesn't yield this definition, there are many sects of feminism that are trying to shift feminism's aim to include men because men are victims of the patriarchy, too. Unfortunately, "feminism" is a misleading term and it makes it difficult to talk about gender because people automatically assume that you're only talking about women, and there are a lot of people that promote simplified or inaccurate definitions of what feminism is. Basically, it's a term that means something different to a lot of people, and used to only be about women, and that's the definition you get most of the time when you look it up, but today there's a really big shift happening that is making feminism about other genders, too.

Feminism is a FORM of humanitarianism, but humanitarianism is more just about being nice to and inclusive of all people. It's much more broad and basic and doesn't deal specifically with gender. I do want to make it clear, though, that I think feminism is a really misleading term and there are so many different definitions of it that people operate under that it makes things confusing for people. I have just explained my use of the word so hopefully that clears stuff up on my part.

And to think that any form of advertising is meant to be "innocent" is really just you fooling yourself. Companies want to make money off of ignorance, and turning bodies into walking advertisements is kind of scary regardless of if it's sexually objectifying!

No I certainly don´t believe in full equality. They should have of course same rights, adequate salary for identical work but as we all know women and men differ in at least emotional and physical side and it certainly results in no equality. I believe in justice and equality in dependance of circumstances but I don´t know I think it´s not full feminism.

Your statement is confusing and doesn't make much sense to me...but my basic response will be that saying "equal" makes things confusing, but what I mean is actually egalitarianism. Men and women and trans* people might all be different, but that doesn't mean that they should be treated differently politically or socially. Everyone's treated like shit under the patriarchy because it teaches us that women always cry and boys never cry, and that you either have to be a boy or a girl and if you're stuck between them then you're a freak; it teaches us that we all have to be a certain way in order to be accepted, and that's not ok. To repeat what I said above, feminism is shifting to be inclusive of the victimization of all genders, not just women, but all genders are suffering.

I completely agree with you! It's funny that you said that because their argument of "it's mostly men" is just as bad as what they are arguing against! XD

Ehh I'M not the one who said anything about men vs. women here, and I assume by saying "they" you're including me in that sentence. So I'm going to exclude myself from that sentence because I obviously haven't been saying that "it's mostly men."

[andrearosef]

I feel you, Krystal! When I first saw it I was like 'hmmm that's a little misogynistic dontcha think?'. Ahaha. I don't know why people are attacking you for stating a valid opinion. Especially on this board, cmon people it's GDC let's be nice.

And I don't get when people confidently say "I'm not a feminist!" What do you think feminist means??? It just means you think genders should be equal so if you aren't, that's pretty effed up ahah. You came from a woman.

But yeah! Weird advertising! It's not japan I mean misogynistic marketing is US's main thing. But yeah.

It's not a HUGE deal. It's not CRAZY. But this is a little example of using a woman's body to sell a product. Which can be seen as objectifying. Duh. Ahah. I don't get this huge argument. I feel ya Krystal. And I think Awesomepawsom should be banned or something! ahaha. Any mods agree? That wasn't nice at all.

[nezda86]

That is a pretty feeble argument, based on ignorance and a refusal to accept that people are different and have different outlooks in other parts of the world, rather than on any cultural knowledge. Some of us know what we are talking about, and in this person's case, have been to Japan and can write based upon experience. But I suppose to people like you, as I am man I do not count.

You´re right, if you read only this comment without more knowledge. It seems so. But as I posted more than ten to this topic, I started to really get bored talking about the same principles and my view of the issue all the time, so finally I gave up. But I let nobody to insult my person because of one post that torn out of the whole discussion is totally off.

[nezda86]

I completely agree with you! It's funny that you said that because their argument of "it's mostly men" is just as bad as what they are arguing against! XD

It´s funny we´re still arguing about it. You have opinion, I have opinion. You think this is a great idea, I say I don´t like it too much. We have rights to have different opinions. I think it just unnecessarily ended in a rude fighting against each other. Well I am sorry if I offended you or anybody else but I still stand by my view of the situation. And I hope you will tolerate it.

[nezda86]

I feel you, Krystal! When I first saw it I was like 'hmmm that's a little misogynistic dontcha think?'. Ahaha. I don't know why people are attacking you for stating a valid opinion. Especially on this board, cmon people it's GDC let's be nice.

And I don't get when people confidently say "I'm not a feminist!" What do you think feminist means??? It just means you think genders should be equal so if you aren't, that's pretty effed up ahah. You came from a woman.

But yeah! Weird advertising! It's not japan I mean misogynistic marketing is US's main thing. But yeah.

It's not a HUGE deal. It's not CRAZY. But this is a little example of using a woman's body to sell a product. Which can be seen as objectifying. Duh. Ahah. I don't get this huge argument. I feel ya Krystal. And I think Awesomepawsom should be banned or something! ahaha. Any mods agree? That wasn't nice at all.

You´ re right, it wasn ´t right to say that I ´m not femenist if I am a female . But could it be mitigating circumstance that I rather meant extremist feminist?

[nezda86]

Y'all, I'm seriously just trying to say that companies trying to sell us stuff aren't cool and they're always trying to undermine our intelligence. To think that they ever have our best interests in mind is kind of silly. And to use PEOPLE (and their sexuality) as advertisements is really taking advantage of us, and us wanting to be a part of that is really just an example of how desensitized we are to this system. I know I said I was done but I keep getting the impression that most people think I'm trying to argue, but actually I'm just trying to be helpful and have a conversation about this topic.

Your statement is confusing and doesn't make much sense to me...but my basic response will be that saying "equal" makes things confusing, but what I mean is actually egalitarianism. Men and women and trans* people might all be different, but that doesn't mean that they should be treated differently politically or socially. Everyone's treated like shit under the patriarchy because it teaches us that women always cry and boys never cry, and that you either have to be a boy or a girl and if you're stuck between them then you're a freak; it teaches us that we all have to be a certain way in order to be accepted, and that's not ok. To repeat what I said above, feminism is shifting to be inclusive of the victimization of all genders, not just women, but all genders are suffering.

Well, it makes sense to me You said there are more definitions according to how people feel it. I was rather getting at extremist feminism, which I feel is about women wanting "things" for which they aren ´ t equipped.

But I think it´s not due to patriarchy, I thing it´s more about different emotional levels of each person as I said before. As you used the crying example, I am overemotional person, I think crying is one of my distinguishing features but I know women that hardly cry, cold as charity maybe. My boyfriend cries at romantic films. I think it is sweet and funny. It´s really hard to make some verdict. I agree with you it can be viewed as some kind of a pressure and it is your posture that reacts to that. Either you behave as you feel like or you think about what other people view you or just don´t think about it at all.