Unpopular Green Day Opinions

[Todd]

Uh.......he's not OLD.......you're freakin young.......just wait kiddo......

You just quoted a post that is OLD

[robinlovesbillie]

You just quoted a post that is OLD

And your point is............

[alexandra_1039]

im gonna be that person that posts something unrelated to the discussion (but still related to the thread): is it unpopular to think Stuck With Me is one of their MOST underrated songs?

[Iva]

Which Stuck With Me? The real Stuck With Me or the one we all know as Stuck With Me?

[Z J]

Lyrically, I think the top 2 have to be JOS and Holiday, without debate, for me. Outside of that...you could pick from a number of songs. I've started hearing a lot more of the great lyricism on Insomniac. It is tough at first with the lack of pronunciation on BJA's part but their are some GEMS. Like:

Seasons change as well as minds
And I'm a two faced clown

and

Elected the rejected
I perfected the science of the idiot
No meaning...no healing
Self loathing freak and introverted deviot

god damn that's good.

You could argue that the Trilogy is, in terms of trying something new, their most creative album since Warning. That doesn't make it good though.

You forget they made 21CB?

A thematically crisp and relatable album, with transcendent lyrics is one thing, but musically, it's just a rebranded product. Production was great, but I didn't see much exploration from the fundamental formulas.

I agree musically it is nothing creative I was only referring to lyrical and thematic aspects.

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

1. Poor promotion, even before Billie's rehab

2. Billie's rehab.

4. The negativity around it just because people thought releasing 3 album worth of songs would make the record suck.

We went over all of this after the trilogy's release, surprising of you to bring that up.

It happens every time, I remember the same shit being said when 21st CB was released and even when AI or Warning were released. I can't recollect before warning as I was too young. We had the forums here where we discussed if we liked the record or not. I found majority of the people singing praises for Uno Dos and Tre. They were recieved well by the critics too, which is amazing because they maintained the same critical praise for all three records. People were predicting #1 debuts. But just because that did not happen does not mean the trilogy sucked. In a few years from now, y'all would be jabbering about how good the trilogy was and how brave it was for GD to release it. They headlined festivals and shows with an audience of 50000+, I guess more times than what they did for 21stCB.

See, I really don't think promotion would have mattered. Rock music isn't popular right now. No matter how much promotion you pumped into it, it wasn't going to become a mainstream success. So its commercialized failure has everything to do with the music. I don't know how you can argue that the music wasn't the reason for the trilogy not hitting it off with the masses.

That doesn't mean I don't personally enjoy the music. I do. That's why I sang its praises initially. Is it my favorite Green Day project? Probably not. Do I think it sucks? Not exactly. But I don't think it would have been a mainstream success regardless. Better production and better promotion would have helped, but I still don't think it would have been any sort of breakthrough project no matter what.

I really don't think the albums were as acclaimed as you're making them out to be though. Aside from people on here, who predicted No. 1 debuts? You can't exactly trust this place as an unbiased source. Just a quick scan of Wikipedia (not that it's completely reliable, but it is cohesive) shows most of the reviews were 5/10, 3/5 stars, Cs and Bs. Nothing spectacular at all.

And also, didn't you bring it up? You're the one who started the conversation. I was replying to you.

[Daughter.of.Rage.and.Love]

But I'm not saying keep the songs the same. Change them to be done and produced in the Foxboro Hot Tubs fashion and have the band release it (either before or after Uno and Tre) as the Hot Tubs.

But, well, then it's not Dos anymore. That's not Dos being a Tubbies album, that's let's pretend Dos doesn't exist and the Tubbies have a new album That's two quite different things.

[billiesboy]

I'm an old school fan so naturally I love the good old pop punk sound. Personally I think Nimrod is the last album released that still somewhere had a Dookie touch to it even though at the same time was something fresh in terms of being GD.

I don't understand the fuzz about AI and 21CB at all. Both are albums that bore me to death. 21CB is even worse because it was only written to ride on the wave of AI. Green Day delivered what they knew people wanted and expected and that sucks imo. In that regard the trilogy is much more interesting.

Dos though I dont even want to talk about. I absolutely do not think much of that Foxboro/garage sound at all. It's terrible and I dream nightmares about it. The rest of the songs are mediocre for being GD but there are some amazing songs on there.

But I just wish the did something more stripped down again with only the three of them. They dont need all that shit, all the extra musicians, the over produced sound, the bullshit makeup thing...it's the simplicity that made them great. It was easy to relate to. I dont expect a Dookie 2...well actually I do. Lyrically it would be different of course but the sound, rawness, basics...thats what I miss.

[The Disappearing Boy]

You forget they made 21CB?

Breakdown isn't particularly creative in terms of the diversity of the music. Certainly not compared to Warning or Nimrod. Most of Breakdown can be put into two categories: Stadium Rock, or Ballad. Maybe Peacemaker and Horseshoes and Handgrenades are the only two which don't fit into either category.

As for the Trilogy? Say what you like about it, but there is a diversity of sound that hasn't been present since maybe Warning or Nimrod. Stadium Rock, Garage Rock, Pop Punk, straight up Rock 'n' Roll, Ballad, Rap ...

[Hermione]

I concur, I like looking at the trilogy as a piece of art not just for the music but for what it really shows about Billie's state of mind. Its like the art of the mid life crisis and the faults the album has almost strengthens the crisis theme

I don't think Hermoine meant it as he did it on purpose and I don't think he did I think he was just fucked up

Just to be picky I don't mean Billie himself had a mid life crisis and that was reflected in the album (although I'm sure he's dealt with some mid life crisis issues that helped inspire it and agree with you that it's like the "art of the mid life crisis", love that description!). I just mean the album has mid life crisis themes and therefore to adequately get those themes across he deliberately made some of the lyrics mid life crisis-style crass and creepy. So I do think he did that with the lyrics it on purpose, but I don't think what he did was at fault, it was an appropriate way of getting those themes and feelings across.

[Akshat]

I liked your post, but I want to point out I don't like the 21st CB part . Totally agree about the trilogy's lack of success.

21st CB was a good record.All of GD's records have been good. But in no way was it creative, which happens to be my point. It rode on the success of AI. It was on the Billboard 200 chart for 35 weeks, even after debuting at #1. Even Warning stayed on that chart for a longer time. It topped the chats because of the hype around it and not its musical content. Most of the success Green Day got after AI till 2010 has been solely because of AI. Even covers like Working Class Hero charted on Hot 100. They had a Broadway show because of American Idiot. Coming back to 21st CB, it was an over-produced record and this over-production is clearly observable in tracks like Restless Heart Syndrome. Was it a bad record? No.

I lol'ed.

I feel so proud as a professional gesture that I made someone laugh at 1,2,4.

1) New stuff on Nimrod: Strings, acoustic tracks, ska, hardcore punk, surf punk, instrumental songs, new song structures.

New stuff on the Trilogy: Um. They wrote a song in 3/4? And they attempted a ripoff of The Clash. Oh yeah, and a dire attempt at rap.

Wonderful.

2) Tom covered 21stCB better than I ever could so that's fine.

3) I'd say there's about 10 really good songs on the Trilogy. Maybe 15 with some reworking. Hardly a majority. And of those 10 good songs, only about 5 could be considered anything near amazing.

4) As I've clearly stated plenty of times, it's not because a few of the songs are crap, it's because most of them are crap. And resorting to threats of violence is a really great way to undermine yourself, well done.

5) The only one of those that could actually have affected the Trilogy is Billie's rehab. The promotion was pretty adequate in my opinion. As for people being negative about 3 albums of stuff coming out, that's a crock of shit. I was as excited as anyone about new GD, and got swept away on the "new music from my favourite band" wave of emotion. It was only a couple of months later that I began to really realise just how bad so much of it is.

Also you said somewhere that it was well recieved by critics. Pretty much everywhere gave it 2/3 stars, which is basically the kiss of death of music reviews. It's not good enough for people to run out and buy, and not bad enough for people to be interested in what all the fuss is about.

Let Me rephrase that:

New Stuff on Nimrod:Strings, Acoustic Tracks, Ska, Surf Punk, Instrumental SonG.

Trilogy: Piano Ballad, Garage Rock, Garage-Punk, Hip Hop, Dance Punk( I don't care what you think of KTDJ), Power-Pop, whatever the hell fuck time and brutal love were and most of everything on Nimrod.

Elements of Hardcore Punk were there in Insomniac too and having an instrumental track is considered a lack of creativity and laziness to write lyrics.

I'd say apart from Sweet 16, Troublemaker, Nightlife(debatable), SD&V and Walk Away(again, debatable), everything else on the trilogy was fine. It all depends on the listener as to what tracks he/she likes. The trilogy was full of songs so even if you might hate a few, there are always songs there that you will love.

The promotion was TERRIBLE. They tried all kinds of shit like Angry Birds, Nokia etc that didn't work. They released the wrong song as the lead single and released a very few singles altogether. Only one single got promotion and that too was the one which should have not been the lead single but the 2nd or 3rd one.There was no news or buzz about Green Day till Billie was in rehab. They were playing in the wrong shows. Don't really want to get into that. Is it even remotely possible otherwise that your lead single happens to be the third song in the history to top the rock chart on debut but fails on hot 100?

The trilogy had some lyrically good songs like Carpe Diem, Rusty James, Amy, Ashley, The Forgotten, Brutal Love, 8th Ave Serenade, X-Kid, 99 rev, Lazy Bones etc

It had decent songs like Stray Heart, Nuclear Family, Stay The Night, Let Yourself Go, Angel Blue, Loss of Control, Fell For You, Oh Love, KTDJ, Missing You, DRB, SWTRLF, Wow That's Loud etc.

I just gave you 23 songs, that's 5 more than the number of tracks nimrod had. I can mention more but most of them have mixed opinions. Nimrod is no doubt a better record than The Trilogy and better than any other GD record but with the trilogy, GD tried a whole amount of new stuff and the record was pretty good, if not the best.

Critics these days are not impartial. Imagine Dragon's last album was reviewed poorly just like it should have been. Even 30stm or Linkin Park have never got such good reviews, which is fair. Coldplay was well received till A rush of Blood and even they face the brunt of the critics. Green Day is reviewed by people like David Frickle, guys who have reviewed a lot of work.He found the trilogy to be fine.

Uno was the 8th best album of 2012 and it could have been ranked better if it sold a few more copies according to me. And this wave of negativity always existed before the release of the trilogy, with The Black Keys drummer saying that their record wont sell because there are too many songs and shit.

[Akshat]

See, I really don't think promotion would have mattered. Rock music isn't popular right now. No matter how much promotion you pumped into it, it wasn't going to become a mainstream success. So its commercialized failure has everything to do with the music. I don't know how you can argue that the music wasn't the reason for the trilogy not hitting it off with the masses.

That doesn't mean I don't personally enjoy the music. I do. That's why I sang its praises initially. Is it my favorite Green Day project? Probably not. Do I think it sucks? Not exactly. But I don't think it would have been a mainstream success regardless. Better production and better promotion would have helped, but I still don't think it would have been any sort of breakthrough project no matter what.

I really don't think the albums were as acclaimed as you're making them out to be though. Aside from people on here, who predicted No. 1 debuts? You can't exactly trust this place as an unbiased source. Just a quick scan of Wikipedia (not that it's completely reliable, but it is cohesive) shows most of the reviews were 5/10, 3/5 stars, Cs and Bs. Nothing spectacular at all.

And also, didn't you bring it up? You're the one who started the conversation. I was replying to you.

Rock Music is popular but in the form of Country-Rock, Electronic Rock or Folk Rock, something soft. Rock songs have done well. Look at Ho Hey, Radioactive etc. Mumford and Sons, Coldplay, Foo Fighters, Linkin Park have all been doing good. Even when AI came out, there were records doing better than it. Since the 2000s, its more about dance and pop music but that does not mean rock is getting lost.

Liking the trilogy or not is your opinion and I respect that. I found the production to be fine, which happens to be my opinion.

I look at the reviews on Metacritic, not Wikipedia. It assigns a rating based on the review of many critics. The Trilogy's average score was 67, 3 less than 21st Cb. Living Things got 60, Mylo Xyloto got 65 and Night Visions by Imagine Dragons got 50 or something. Had they released like the 10-15 best songs, I'm pretty sure their score would have been much higher.

[Guest]

having an instrumental track is considered a lack of creativity and laziness to write lyrics.

I honestly stopped reading after this. You're a fucking idiot.

[Akshat]

You're a fucking idiot.

[munns6691]

But, well, then it's not Dos anymore. That's not Dos being a Tubbies album, that's let's pretend Dos doesn't exist and the Tubbies have a new album That's two quite different things.

Well right! That's what should have happened. Stop When the Red Lights Flash, Baby Eyes, Wild One, Wow That's Loud are all dying to be Tubbies songs instead.

[Anaïs.]

New Stuff on Nimrod:Strings, Acoustic Tracks, Ska, Surf Punk, Instrumental SonG.

Trilogy: Piano Ballad, Garage Rock, Garage-Punk, Hip Hop, Dance Punk( I don't care what you think of KTDJ), Power-Pop, whatever the hell fuck time and brutal love were and most of everything on Nimrod.

Elements of Hardcore Punk were there in Insomniac too and having an instrumental track is considered a lack of creativity and laziness to write lyrics.

I'd say apart from Sweet 16, Troublemaker, Nightlife(debatable), SD&V and Walk Away(again, debatable), everything else on the trilogy was fine. It all depends on the listener as to what tracks he/she likes. The trilogy was full of songs so even if you might hate a few, there are always songs there that you will love.

The trilogy had some lyrically good songs like Carpe Diem, Rusty James, Amy, Ashley, The Forgotten, Brutal Love, 8th Ave Serenade, X-Kid, 99 rev, Lazy Bones etc

It had decent songs like Stray Heart, Nuclear Family, Stay The Night, Let Yourself Go, Angel Blue, Loss of Control, Fell For You, Oh Love, KTDJ, Missing You, DRB, SWTRLF, Wow That's Loud etc.

I just gave you 23 songs, that's 5 more than the number of tracks nimrod had. I can mention more but most of them have mixed opinions. Nimrod is no doubt a better record than The Trilogy and better than any other GD record but with the trilogy, GD tried a whole amount of new stuff and the record was pretty good, if not the best.

1. They already did a piano ballad on 21CB ("Last Night on Earth"). All of the "power pop" and "garage punk" sound exactly like their previous songs, only with weaker guitar and heavier vocal filters. And an instrumental isn't considered creative? Are you shitting me? Ever hear of Pink fucking Floyd?

2. If you seriously think "The Forgotten", "Kill the DJ", "Dirty Rotten Bastards", "99 Revolutions" and "Carpe Diem" are lyrically decent, we have problems.

[Akshat]

1. They already did a piano ballad on 21CB ("Last Night on Earth"). All of the "power pop" and "garage punk" sound exactly like their previous songs, only with weaker guitar and heavier vocal filters. And an instrumental isn't considered creative? Are you shitting me? Ever hear of Pink fucking Floyd?

2. If you seriously think "The Forgotten", "Kill the DJ", "Dirty Rotten Bastards", "99 Revolutions" and "Carpe Diem" are lyrically decent, we have problems.

I was talking about instrumentals in the context of Last Ride In. THAT song sounded more like they were out of lyrics to me. At the same time, I hoped that Nighlife was only instrumental. I also said a dozen more things which might be of more importance.

Last Night on Earth was a piano ballad? okay. Boulevard of Broken Dreams was Heavy Metal at its finest.

Did I say Kill The DJ was lyrically decent? I said it was a decent song. Makes a huge difference when you remove the word 'lyrically'. And yes, The Forgotten, Carpe Diem and 99 rev were good in terms of lyrics.In Billie's own words, 99 revolutions is one of the best songs he has written.

Breaking in a sweat

Like a bomb threat

Is your silhouette fading out?

Nothing left to lose

Detonate the fuse

Another breaking news blowout

Ain't it beautiful?

So unusual

Life's a gas and it's running out

Living a cliche

Gonna seize the day

Bottle rockets and celebrate, celebrate, celebrate

---------------------------------------------

Where in the world did the time go?

It’s where your spirit seems to roam

Like losing faith to our abandon

Or an empty hallway from a broken home

------------------------------------------

Hit the lights and bang the drum

And let your flag unfold

Cause history will prove itself

In the halls of justice and lost souls

I don't see anything wrong in the above set of lyrics.

About garage punk and power pop, care to enlighten me more?

[The Disappearing Boy]

I seem to remember thinking that pre-iHeart the promotion was pretty good (much better than Breakdown's promotion). I remember people commenting about it on here and I think Andres may have made a post about how good it was on GDA.

[Spike]

21st CB was a good record.All of GD's records have been good. But in no way was it creative, which happens to be my point. It rode on the success of AI. It was on the Billboard 200 chart for 35 weeks, even after debuting at #1. Even Warning stayed on that chart for a longer time. It topped the chats because of the hype around it and not its musical content. Most of the success Green Day got after AI till 2010 has been solely because of AI. Even covers like Working Class Hero charted on Hot 100. They had a Broadway show because of American Idiot. Coming back to 21st CB, it was an over-produced record and this over-production is clearly observable in tracks like Restless Heart Syndrome. Was it a bad record? No.

Of course some of the success was down to the success of American Idiot. That's kind of how the industry works with rock. The latest Bowie album wasn't very good, it was successful because of who he is, and the hype was based entirely around previous success. That said, Breakdown was similar to American Idiot in a few ways, but it seemed entirely organic. They were making music that sounded like that at the time, so I've never understood why people criticise them for following one album up with another comparable one. As for Restless Heart Syndrome, how was it over-produced? It's absolutely masterful, probably one of the best songs they've ever done, and certainly the one with the most subtle, complex arrangement.

New Stuff on Nimrod:Strings, Acoustic Tracks, Ska, Surf Punk, Instrumental SonG.

Trilogy: Piano Ballad, Garage Rock, Garage-Punk, Hip Hop, Dance Punk( I don't care what you think of KTDJ), Power-Pop, whatever the hell fuck time and brutal love were and most of everything on Nimrod.

Elements of Hardcore Punk were there in Insomniac too and having an instrumental track is considered a lack of creativity and laziness to write lyrics.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. Last Night On Earth was a piano ballad, the Tubbies are entirely based on garage rock and garage punk, what in the world was hip hop about anything on the Trilogy? "Dance punk" is more like "disco rock" but I'll give you that one. Power-pop is absolutely nothing new to Green Day, since that's essentially what Boulevard Of Broken Dreams is. Fuck Time is no different from a lot of Tubbies songs. Brutal Love was always, to my mind, signature Green Day, since it has a similar feel to some of their best selling songs - BOBD, WMUWSE and 21 Guns. It's just what they do. I'm not quite sure what your point is about hardcore punk being on Insomniac, it just seems like you're arguing with yourself there.

As for the instrumental track comment, that's honestly the most ignorant thing I've read on GDC, and that's saying something. If you're talking purely in the context of Green Day, you're wrong anyway. Last Ride In is like nothing they've done before or since anyway, and given that it's on an 18 track album, the shortage of lyrics / laziness argument is just absolute rubbish. It might not be a great instrumental, but it was arguably the most creative thing they'd done up to that point.

I'd say apart from Sweet 16, Troublemaker, Nightlife(debatable), SD&V and Walk Away(again, debatable), everything else on the trilogy was fine. It all depends on the listener as to what tracks he/she likes. The trilogy was full of songs so even if you might hate a few, there are always songs there that you will love.

So your argument is pointless. You can't tell people they're wrong about liking or not liking certain things and then come out with "it depends on what the listener likes."

The promotion was TERRIBLE. They tried all kinds of shit like Angry Birds, Nokia etc that didn't work. They released the wrong song as the lead single and released a very few singles altogether. Only one single got promotion and that too was the one which should have not been the lead single but the 2nd or 3rd one.There was no news or buzz about Green Day till Billie was in rehab. They were playing in the wrong shows. Don't really want to get into that. Is it even remotely possible otherwise that your lead single happens to be the third song in the history to top the rock chart on debut but fails on hot 100?

Obviously I agree with this. Not quite sure how it's relevant, though? The albums were clearly geared towards fans, and even ignoring how badly they sold, they were still poorly received. That must say something about the quality of the records.

The trilogy had some lyrically good songs like Carpe Diem, Rusty James, Amy, Ashley, The Forgotten, Brutal Love, 8th Ave Serenade, X-Kid, 99 rev, Lazy Bones etc

It had decent songs like Stray Heart, Nuclear Family, Stay The Night, Let Yourself Go, Angel Blue, Loss of Control, Fell For You, Oh Love, KTDJ, Missing You, DRB, SWTRLF, Wow That's Loud etc.

I just gave you 23 songs, that's 5 more than the number of tracks nimrod had. I can mention more but most of them have mixed opinions. Nimrod is no doubt a better record than The Trilogy and better than any other GD record but with the trilogy, GD tried a whole amount of new stuff and the record was pretty good, if not the best.

Quantity = / = quality. You can list as many songs as you like, that doesn't make the Trilogy better than Nimrod. The fact that they needed to put so many songs out just so people could like a few stinks of a lack of quality control, as is an ongoing problem for Green Day. They barely tried any new stuff, you're being incredibly hyperbolic here, as I've already covered. In any case, here's the crux of my argument: Creativity isn't necessarily about doing something for the first time. It could be about doing it for the 100th time better than the first 99. Did they achieve that with anything on the Trilogy? No.

Critics these days are not impartial. Imagine Dragon's last album was reviewed poorly just like it should have been. Even 30stm or Linkin Park have never got such good reviews, which is fair. Coldplay was well received till A rush of Blood and even they face the brunt of the critics. Green Day is reviewed by people like David Frickle, guys who have reviewed a lot of work.He found the trilogy to be fine.

Uno was the 8th best album of 2012 and it could have been ranked better if it sold a few more copies according to me. And this wave of negativity always existed before the release of the trilogy, with The Black Keys drummer saying that their record wont sell because there are too many songs and shit.

So because a critic has reviewed the band before and liked the Trilogy it must be good? Here's an argument: Critics are normal people, just like us. Most of us on here know Green Day inside out, and a lot of us don't like the Trilogy, or at least large chunks of it. Is Frickle's opinion any more valid than anyone else's? No. Critics don't mean shit. Not quite sure where you're getting your numbers from in terms of Uno being the 8th best album of 2012. And saying it would rank higher if it sold more is like saying sales figures matter more than the music itself. If that's what you're saying, your entire argument is invalid.

I was talking about instrumentals in the context of Last Ride In. THAT song sounded more like they were out of lyrics to me. At the same time, I hoped that Nighlife was only instrumental. I also said a dozen more things which might be of more importance.

Last Night on Earth was a piano ballad? okay. Boulevard of Broken Dreams was Heavy Metal at its finest.

Last Night On Earth is a piano ballad. It's a ballad driven by a piano. There's simply no arguing that. Saying you hoped Nightlife was instrumental is in total contradiction of your comments on Last Ride In, given that there's a hell of a lot more going on in the latter than Nightlife, which is nothing but a semi-decent but very basic bassline.

And I'm not really sure I can argue with someone, let alone someone who seems to know Green Day pretty well, who thinks The Forgotten is a remotely acceptable lyric.

[Daughter.of.Rage.and.Love]

Well right! That's what should have happened. Stop When the Red Lights Flash, Baby Eyes, Wild One, Wow That's Loud are all dying to be Tubbies songs instead.

But still, slapping a different name on the cover doesn't change the album or the artist, and changing the sound makes it a different album with different songs altogether.

[alexandra_1039]

Which Stuck With Me? The real Stuck With Me or the one we all know as Stuck With Me?

hahah, the one we all know!

[DookieLukie]

I wonder how long this Trilogy quality argument will last. Years? Decades? Who knows?

[The Disappearing Boy]

I wonder how long this Trilogy quality argument will last. Years? Decades? Who knows?

Probably for the rest of Green Day's career.

I have to say I don't know of any other Green Day album that is as divisive as this amongst Green Day fans. I would hazard a guess to say that there are more people who dislike the Trilogy than there are who dislike any of their other albums.

[Akshat]

Of course some of the success was down to the success of American Idiot. That's kind of how the industry works with rock. The latest Bowie album wasn't very good, it was successful because of who he is, and the hype was based entirely around previous success. That said, Breakdown was similar to American Idiot in a few ways, but it seemed entirely organic. They were making music that sounded like that at the time, so I've never understood why people criticise them for following one album up with another comparable one. As for Restless Heart Syndrome, how was it over-produced? It's absolutely masterful, probably one of the best songs they've ever done, and certainly the one with the most subtle, complex arrangement.

21st CB was similar to AI in every way. Everything good that ever happened to it was because of its comparisons with AI.It amuses me how you think only a part of it was similar to AI. Even the singles were similar.(21 guns= BOBD, EJN=holiday, KYE=AI). 21stCB, like AI, was a rock Opera with various acts. Anyone who has not heard of Green Day would tell you that thy're both the same albums.

I'm sorry but I was referring to Horseshoes and Hand grenades and RHS, maybe the song was at the back of my head as I typed Nothing wrong with RHE but I'd love to know what you think of H&H, which is nothing but loading a song with production like pouring tea in a full cup( Did I just make a Dalai Lama reference?)

So your argument is pointless. You can't tell people they're wrong about liking or not liking certain things and then come out with "it depends on what the listener likes."

When did I ASK people to like or dislike anything? You are ignorant towards my use of first language. I have made it clear that these are MY views. The argument begins with "I'd say that". Stop doing this, PLEASE. The world has seen enough ignorant people and apathy.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. Last Night On Earth was a piano ballad, the Tubbies are entirely based on garage rock and garage punk, what in the world was hip hop about anything on the Trilogy? "Dance punk" is more like "disco rock" but I'll give you that one. Power-pop is absolutely nothing new to Green Day, since that's essentially what Boulevard Of Broken Dreams is. Fuck Time is no different from a lot of Tubbies songs. Brutal Love was always, to my mind, signature Green Day, since it has a similar feel to some of their best selling songs - BOBD, WMUWSE and 21 Guns. It's just what they do. I'm not quite sure what your point is about hardcore punk being on Insomniac, it just seems like you're arguing with yourself there.

As for the instrumental track comment, that's honestly the most ignorant thing I've read on GDC, and that's saying something. If you're talking purely in the context of Green Day, you're wrong anyway. Last Ride In is like nothing they've done before or since anyway, and given that it's on an 18 track album, the shortage of lyrics / laziness argument is just absolute rubbish. It might not be a great instrumental, but it was arguably the most creative thing they'd done up to that point.

What the hell do the Tubbies have to do with Green Day? Where you getting to? Fuck Time was more of Chuck Berry for me with elements of Teenage by MCR. Isn't Nightlife supposed to be a hip hop song, I thought rapping has a genre name called hip hop. Boulevard of Broken Dreams was not power pop. At best, it was Alternative Rock. Brutal Love is entirely different from BOBD and WMUWSE. Both those songs were about personal experiences and First persons whereas Brutal Love was something different. If there is anything that comes close to BOBD+WMUWSE, its 21 Guns.

The guy said that Green Day first tried Hardcore Punk with Nimrod, which is false because Insomniac was full of it. It seems like you're thoughts and posts are arguing with each other.

Billie himself admitted in an interview just before the trilogy release that he was short of lyrics while recording nimrod. He wrote some of the songs in the studio and said that he does not want the same thing to happen for the trilogy. You may look it up. It was even posted on GDA. Correct yourself FACTUALLY before telling me something. Last Ride In does sound like a song where they fell short of the lyrics, with repeating compositions and patterns. And if you think Last Ride In was the most creative thing they did for Nimrod, I think the whole point of making King for A day, Good Riddance or Prosthetic Head was pointless.

Quantity = / = quality. You can list as many songs as you like, that doesn't make the Trilogy better than Nimrod. The fact that they needed to put so many songs out just so people could like a few stinks of a lack of quality control, as is an ongoing problem for Green Day. They barely tried any new stuff, you're being incredibly hyperbolic here, as I've already covered. In any case, here's the crux of my argument: Creativity isn't necessarily about doing something for the first time. It could be about doing it for the 100th time better than the first 99. Did they achieve that with anything on the Trilogy? No.

Again, ignorance is bliss. You're failing to take into account the number of times I've said that Nimrod is a better record than the trilogy and that its my favorite record ever. They did not put out so many songs because they needed to put so many songs out just so people could like a few stinks of a lack of quality control. They did so because they had many ideas in their minds and wanted to put them out. Does Green Day really care about commercial success now? They can do whatever the hell they like. They put out the albums because they wanted to. They could have easily selected the best 10 or 12 and made a record. They're in the industry for a longer time and have more knowledge than you or me. Sitting behind a computer whining about the quality of a record won't get you anywhere

Creativity According to Oxford(the use of imagination to create something; inventiveness:

They created a hell lot of stuff with the trilogy. Your argument is invalid and bogus. Never become a teacher. You will spoil the imagination of the future of this world by telling them kids that its important to 'make it better for the 100th time' instead of trying at all.

So because a critic has reviewed the band before and liked the Trilogy it must be good? Here's an argument: Critics are normal people, just like us. Most of us on here know Green Day inside out, and a lot of us don't like the Trilogy, or at least large chunks of it. Is Frickle's opinion any more valid than anyone else's? No. Critics don't mean shit. Not quite sure where you're getting your numbers from in terms of Uno being the 8th best album of 2012. And saying it would rank higher if it sold more is like saying sales figures matter more than the music itself. If that's what you're saying, your entire argument is invalid.

Again, you're contradicting yourself. If critics are normal people, they're entitled to an opinion too and they're doing it at a professional level because people accept their judgement.

I got the numbers from Rolling Stone, one of the best selling musical magazines in the world. Instead of asking me where I got it from, mind checking it, mate>

And yes, Uno would have ranked higher if it sold at least a few more copies. Do you think One Direction's Album was better than that of Mumford and Sons? Well, they're ranked above them. just because it sold a hell lot more. Metacritic does not give a rating only on Frickle's opinion but on the opinion of 40

other websites and leading magazines, at least in the case of Uno.

And I'm not really sure I can argue with someone, let alone someone who seems to know Green Day pretty well, who thinks The Forgotten is a remotely acceptable lyric.

[WhiteTim]

I just wanna know what drugs Akshat is taking cause I I may need to avoid them...