Unpopular Green Day Opinions

[Z J]

It's a great song lyrically, I agree. It tells a brilliant story, and very well. But wasn't it written to be one song? Therefore "it's seamless" isn't really a point in its favour, especially when all the sections are in the same key and a similar tempo. That's like saying Basket Case is great because the verse flows into the chorus - as is the case for the vast majority of songs. I've got no issue with the guitar being simple, if I did I wouldn't be a Green Day fan. Plus the second part of the last solo is the most twiddly guitar part on the entire album. But to go back to my original point, the production and arrangement are a massive help. If they blasted through it on two guitars, bass and drums it wouldn't sound half as good - the acoustic guitars and piano add a lot to it. Which is fine, but I can't love a song just because of what instruments are in it. If that intro didn't sound so powerful due to the mastering it'd do a lot of damage to the impact of the song.

Billie's always been a great lyricist though, so I don't think it stands out. I would have thought someone as good as him would notice that the pre-chorus sounds like he's repeatedly saying "I wore Cologne." I agree that the buildup and ending are very good, but they're nothing out of this world. They improved on that kind of effect with Restless Heart Syndome.

I don't see how it's clunked together? I know the bits were written separately but the way it develops makes it sound intentional. And how is Nobody Likes You not different to anything else they've done? I think to write off East 12st Street, and the transition into Nobody Likes You, is a great disservice.

I've just always thought it was very Warning-esque. It is an improvement on Warning lyrically, but it's in the same vain, and only more pointed because of political developments between the release of Warning and writing American Idiot. If the production of American Idiot and Warning were on the same level, either song mentioned could go on Warning.

Insomniac, with American Idiot second. And I can take a guess at what you're going to say, but the two albums can't really be compared because they're so different and they were basically two different bands in those two eras.

I wasn't, when have I ever done that?

1. Sure it is written as one song but it has 5 completely different melodies that could be standalone songs but it manages to transition between them well. It isn't like Basket Case at all. The lyrics put JOS above Homecoming in an easy knockout.

2. Billie's voice always makes things sound like he's saying something else! And the song had a huge impact on a lot of people, at least that I know of. The lyrics are entrancing to me, it is a personal bias I think.

3. I don't think the transitions are as smooth as JOS, b/c it wasn't originally one song. Naturally that will happen, but it still exists. I also find myself tuning out the song during Nobody Likes you and Rock and Roll Girlfriend. Two subpar sections to me. But Homecoming is meant to be more a part of the story so I get why they're there sort of. Doesn't change my opinion of it though.

4. Warning has social commentary on it but it isn't presented in the way AI is. If you try to take AI out of the context of the era it was presented in, you're doing the album a great disservice. AI and Holiday are unlike anything on Warning because they came from inspired places and they reference far more specific things.

5. (I actually have no clue what you think I was going to say) Insomniac is a beast of an album. But to me, Insomniac was inspired by pure anger, and AI by disillusion and dissatisfaction, and the latter is harder to convey in to a lyric that people understand and connect with. AI did a far better job of that.

6. And when you say "Take Boulevard Of Broken Dreams, for example. I think most of us can agree it's fantastic. But break it down and it's a simple melody over four chords, with an octave guitar solo. That description could fit Uptight." I get that vibe that your reducing the music a bit.

[Spike]

1. Sure it is written as one song but it has 5 completely different melodies that could be standalone songs but it manages to transition between them well. It isn't like Basket Case at all. The lyrics put JOS above Homecoming in an easy knockout.

I just mean that to write 5 different sections to a song and have them fit together well, when you've been writing songs for nearly 20 years, every section is in the same key (G# major, which they seem to have written more songs in than any other key), and more or less the same tempo. Things are different with Homecoming because there's a lot more going on in terms of musical variety, and I'll never fail to be astounded by how The Death Of St Jimmy hangs together. Lyrically, it depends what you're after. I fully agree that JOS tells the story very well, and works as a cohesive unit. But you mention how the lyrics to BOBD are important because they're relatable - I'd argue that Homecoming is more relatable than JOS, because JOS is hard to interpret independently from its own story/character. Sure there are bits like "Home is where the heart is, but what a shame, cos everyone's heart doesn't beat the same," which are undeniably lyrical genius. But as an overall theme, Homecoming is, at least personally, more relatable.

2. Billie's voice always makes things sound like he's saying something else! And the song had a huge impact on a lot of people, at least that I know of. The lyrics are entrancing to me, it is a personal bias I think.

Haha, that's true. The song had a big impact on me too, but that's my point - it's not the impact I'm talking about. I'm not denying the impact of the song/album at all, I'm just saying that in musical terms it's not as far above everything else they've done as popular opinion would appear to suggest. If the BOBD lyrics mean a lot to you then who am I to deny it, it is a good, meaningful song.

3. I don't think the transitions are as smooth as JOS, b/c it wasn't originally one song. Naturally that will happen, but it still exists. I also find myself tuning out the song during Nobody Likes you and Rock and Roll Girlfriend. Two subpar sections to me. But Homecoming is meant to be more a part of the story so I get why they're there sort of. Doesn't change my opinion of it though.

I agree that some of the transitions in JOS are a lot stronger than some in Homecoming, but that would be the case given the aforementioned musical similarities. If the trade off is that there's more musical variety and a more 'epic' feeling song, then I'd say it's fair enough. I don't know what's subpar about Nobody Likes You - it's something very different to anything else they've done, it builds really nicely into the next section, and we get lead vocals from Mike. Rock n Roll Girlfriend I can understand, but I think the fact they throw something that brash and Ramones-esque into the mix straight after the subtle build of Nobody Likes You harms it. If it was placed differently it'd probably seem a lot better.

4. Warning has social commentary on it but it isn't presented in the way AI is. If you try to take AI out of the context of the era it was presented in, you're doing the album a great disservice. AI and Holiday are unlike anything on Warning because they came from inspired places and they reference far more specific things.

True, but didn't you say Jesus Of Suburbia is timeless? In which case, taking it out of the context it was presented in can't be that bad a thing. Plus, the album has aged well, so I don't think separating it from the politics of 2004/5 does too much damage. The only reason Warning isn't as targeted as AI is that the events that triggered AI in the first place hadn't happened. The point I was making was that if you modified the production so the guitar and drum sounds matched Warning, it wouldn't seem out of place. Not just because of the lyrical content, but more the general feel of the songs. The feel, rhythmically, of Holiday is comparable with Minority, and I just don't think if you put Holiday onto Warning it would stand out as superior to many of the other songs on there.

5. (I actually have no clue what you think I was going to say) Insomniac is a beast of an album. But to me, Insomniac was inspired by pure anger, and AI by disillusion and dissatisfaction, and the latter is harder to convey in to a lyric that people understand and connect with. AI did a far better job of that.

Well, that's not quite the response I expected so props for that! I agree with what you're saying, but as you say, the inspiration and motivation behind the two albums were very different, and so it's hard to say whether American Idiot fulfilled its purpose better than Insomniac. Difficulty is irrelevant, it can be hard to write all kinds of songs depending on what you're aiming for. Insomniac does a fantastic job at conveying the anger in it, not only from a songwriting perspective, but the performance and delivery. The same is true of American Idiot, and I wouldn't say one is necessarily better than the other in that respect. American Idiot actually suffers a lot in terms of conveying political dissatisfaction, as it gets caught up in the narrative of the St Jimmy/JOS/Whatsername story, and the story and politics never shine at the same time, one or the other is always buried. It says a lot that the song that the general public have clung onto as some political statement is WMUWSE - the only song on there that isn't meant to be political. I get that that's to do with the video, but whose idea was that?

6. And when you say "Take Boulevard Of Broken Dreams, for example. I think most of us can agree it's fantastic. But break it down and it's a simple melody over four chords, with an octave guitar solo. That description could fit Uptight." I get that vibe that your reducing the music a bit.

I guess that's just my inner trained music critic coming out, but all I was saying was that in musical terms the two songs are comparable, and as such BOBD isn't as "out there" was people seem to think. I've seen it praised just because it's got a tremolo guitar in it, as if The Smiths didn't make that a mainstream thing years ago. I guess I am reducing the music, but that's the point - there's a difference between the core of a song and the arrangement/production, and I was saying that the song, and a lot of the album, is helped by its production. Tricks like combining tremolo and acoustic guitar, or repeating a guitar solo under a verse, are very nice and sound great, but nothing groundbreaking.

[WhiteTim]

I didn't care for AI as a album for years only liked a few tracks then around 2010-2011 I was bored and listened to AI and loved it

I loved 21st almost instantly

[Iva]

I didn't care for AI as a album for years only liked a few tracks then around 2010-2011 I was bored and listened to AI and loved it

I loved 21st almost instantly

THIS.

[Bastard of 1969]

I've never known why Homecoming gets so overlooked, it's miles better than JOS. In any case, DRB isn't like either of them, it's a few half arsed songs stuck together, the transitions sound rushed and like they haven't been thought out well at all. Homecoming and JOS sound a lot more like they're meant to go together than the sections of DRB.

It's not that long either.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

I think I really should spend more time in this topic...it certainly could get addictive

[Guest]

I think I really should spend more time in this topic...it certainly could get addictive

It's the only topic in GD Chat not completely filled with mindless sycophancy. Very refreshing

[munns6691]

The Hot Tubs should do a Christmas album

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

It's the only topic in GD Chat not completely filled with mindless sycophancy. Very refreshing

Ha yes

(by the way I literally just spent five minutes crying with laughter at the spoilers in your sig...just no words )

[DookieLukie]

"Jingle bells, PBR smells, and I fucked your mom."

What's PBR?

[Guest]

What's PBR?

Every Green Day fan should know that quote

[Hermione]

The Hot Tubs should do a Christmas album

No need! Apparently Green Day already made a whole album's worth of dirty Christmas songs while they were working on American Idiot, just for their own amusement. I would certainly enjoy hearing that.

[Z J]

Alright seriously, next person to post a gif is getting a suspension.

[Hermione]

I thought that bit of spam was long over but apparently not. Let's not have any more gif spam in here please.

[Spike]

Does anyone else thing Bullet In A Bible isn't that great a representation of the American Idiot tour? It's great to have the visual, but the bootlegs I've heard are, in my opinion, far better. They just seem to capture the vibe of the gigs better, if I put the bootleg from my first Green Day gig on and close my eyes I feel like I'm back there and it's happening again. Bullet suffers from being so trimmed down, not just in song terms, but missing some of the most iconic moments of that tour, like certain pyro shots, and Knowledge.

[UNICORN VOMIT]

I don't know how you can say it is not a great representation of the tour - they played to 130,000 people over two days. Its a historical event in the history of punk rock.

[Anaïs.]

I don't know how you can say it is not a great representation of the tour - they played to 130,000 people over two days. Its a historical event in the history of punk rock.

Well, at this point they were solidly arena rock, not really punk.

I'm really bummed by the fact that BIAB doesn't include "Homecoming", for sure.

[Spike]

I don't know how you can say it is not a great representation of the tour - they played to 130,000 people over two days. Its a historical event in the history of punk rock.

1. They mainly played indoor shows on that tour, outdoor has a different vibe completely.

2. The vast majority of crowd interaction is edited out.

3. Half the songs are missing.

4. The crowd is mixed too quietly.

I wasn't saying the gigs weren't important, I'm saying Bullet In A Bible had a lot more potential than was squeezed out of it.

[Asa.]

1. They mainly played indoor shows on that tour, outdoor has a different vibe completely.

2. The vast majority of crowd interaction is edited out.

3. Half the songs are missing.

4. The crowd is mixed too quietly.

To number 2 I say, watching/listening to Billie interacting with fans without actually being there would be rather boring. And to number 4 I say it's loads better than some live albums where the crowd is TOO loud, so much so that the band is hard to hear. I actually prefer the audience to be mixed quietly.

[Spike]

To number 2 I say, watching/listening to Billie interacting with fans without actually being there would be rather boring. And to number 4 I say it's loads better than some live albums where the crowd is TOO loud, so much so that the band is hard to hear. I actually prefer the audience to be mixed quietly.

I just think it's such a huge part of the show it should be on there. Maybe "hey oh" every 4 seconds would get boring, but other things should definitely be in there. Not least Knowledge, that was one of the most talked about parts of the whole show for the entire tour. I agree it's better to have a quieter crowd than one that's too loud, but I find in this case it really affects the atmosphere the album is trying to convey.

[Mar]

BIAB is better than the barebones AAF show, though.

[Spike]

BIAB is better than the barebones AAF show, though.

I love AAF personally. It's got a better variety of songs and is a decent representation of that tour. My only criticism is that it somehow doesn't quite capture the scale of it, but beyond that I think it does its job well.

[Guest]

AAF wins because it doesn't have a "half of AI plus half a dozen greatest hits" setlist.

[Jax Teller]

Well, at this point they were solidly arena rock, not really punk.

I'm really bummed by the fact that BIAB doesn't include "Homecoming", for sure.

I agree with you, Homecoming should have been included in the BIAB.

Overall, I think that BIAB is by far better than AAF.

[Hermione]

BIAB is great but it would be better if Knowledge had been included to show the fan interaction. I've watched plenty of that on video and I don't think it's boring at all, one of the most entertaining things to watch. Take out the bit about Sam Bayer and replace it with Knowledge

I like Awesome As Fuck but I can't deal with the extreme amount of cutting between camera angles, and they also left out pretty much all the most fun/silly songs with cool on stage traditions, and a child wasn't "saved" during EJN. Of the two I think BIAB is a better representation of the tour it showed for those reasons. Plus it has the added bonus of the interviews and backstage stuff so it's always going to be better. Only major plus AAF has is there isn't any of that annoying emo vibe. In terms of the CD Awesome As Fuck wins hands down though! Love listening to that, I think I've only bothered listening to the boring BIAB live CD once.