WhiteTim Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Punk lead vocalists don't really get to show off much either, to be honest. Actually backing vocalists aren't really that restricted. As for the simplicity thing, the basslines aren't as simple as Billie's riffs, but people on here are acting as if they are the most complex things they've ever heard. And Billie does showcase it sometimes in his solos. Do you think his solos are bad? Anyway you won't get any argument from me over who plays their guitar better. They aren't some self-indulgent jam rock band with 10 minute guitar solos. They have a process for putting music to the lyrics and within their song structure, solos don't usually fit. Writing/Singing is harder then playing bass. But Billie is not a punk lead vocalist...
Z J Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 That's true, but usually because a lot of them are crap anyway. In the context of punk, or pop punk, or whatever you want to call it, I can't name anyone that could touch Mike as a bassist. Sure, he's not Jaco Pastorius, but he's by far the best in his field. Well yeah, that's what I was saying. I love his solos, especially on the early stuff. I've posted on here numerous times about how much I love his lead guitar work when he just lets rip. And nor should they be. One of the things they're best at is knowing what the song needs rather than trying to show off. Depends on what you're doing. Billie is a fantastic lyricist, but does that count as musicianship? Once you've written a few songs, lyrics are the only thing that's really challenging. Billie really surpassed all expectations with American Idiot, but most stuff before that was very simple beyond the lyrics, and 21st Century Breakdown was helped massively by the production. I'm not even getting into the trilogy because just no. But if you look at 39/Smooth and Kerplunk, the songs are there, it's the subtleties in the arrangement, performance and production that's missing. Agreed on the trilogy. And I think we agree on most things besides whether or not writing lyrics is musicianship. To me it is and that's what puts Billie on top. But Billie is not a punk lead vocalist... ok? Let's all be honest, Billie is a an awkward lil shit with fans and Mike isn't, hence Mike wins in the likeability category. I think they're all little shits that's why they started a punk band.
WhiteTim Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Green Day is as much punk as Nirvana is and Nirvana wasn't a punk band...
Z J Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Green Day is as much punk as Nirvana is and Nirvana wasn't a punk band... That's just dumb. They were very clearly a punk based band when they started. Also, it's not really the point. My point is that their song structure and style is very anti-vocalist. Nobody goes on American Idol and sings American Idiot because it's impossible to sing it well.
WhiteTim Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 That's just dumb. They were very clearly a punk based band when they started. Also, it's not really the point. My point is that their song structure and style is very anti-vocalist. Nobody goes on American Idol and sings American Idiot because it's impossible to sing it well. Did you ever think maybe its because American Idol doesn't have permission? American Idol can only use songs they have permission from publishors to do... It's really not that hard to sing Anerican Idiot... there's a guy who sings in Houston named Justin Walker just bar performer but he sings it sometimes and better than Billie ever had (imo)
Z J Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Did you ever think maybe its because American Idol doesn't have permission? American Idol can only use songs they have permission from publishors to do... It's really not that hard to sing Anerican Idiot... there's a guy who sings in Houston named Justin Walker just bar performer but he sings it sometimes and better than Billie ever had (imo) As long as those shows pay a fee, they don't need permission so long as they aren't using recorded composition. And can you name a Green Day song that is vocally driven? (I can think of maybe 3). The songs aren't meant to show off vocals. And So because one guy in Houston can sing it, it's easy to sing? Plus I'd kind of need video.
Spike Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 While it's true that Green Day aren't punk in the pure sense of the word, so what? They're clearly massively influenced by punk and fall squarely into the category of pop-punk, and are clearly more towards the punk side, especially compared to bands like Blink 182, who are far more pop. If Insomniac isn't a punk album I don't know what is. Part of the reason they can't be called punk is that they've dared to evolve. American Idiot and onwards sure as hell aren't punk albums, but they're not pop, and there's no way they fit into the alternative rock category. It's all just semantics. They're Green Day, they're influenced by punk, they do their own version of modern pop-punk, simple as that. But the whole punk purity argument is ridiculous even on the face of it, so I have no desire to get into that.
WhiteTim Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 As long as those shows pay a fee, they don't need permission so long as they aren't using recorded composition. And can you name a Green Day song that is vocally driven? (I can think of maybe 3). The songs aren't meant to show off vocals. And So because one guy in Houston can sing it, it's easy to sing? Plus I'd kind of need video. They have to get permission before hand to air it the WORDS of the song are COPYWRITTEN there for they need permission from the publishing company and the owners of said copywrite if you go on tv and just sang the words to a James Brown song without permission no music just the words his estate will have you served with a lawsuit by the next day... Billies a good singer but he's not the greatest and AI is not impossible to sing at all And if I ever see the dude again ill film it for ya can't say when as I hardly drink now While it's true that Green Day aren't punk in the pure sense of the word, so what? They're clearly massively influenced by punk and fall squarely into the category of pop-punk, and are clearly more towards the punk side, especially compared to bands like Blink 182, who are far more pop. If Insomniac isn't a punk album I don't know what is. Part of the reason they can't be called punk is that they've dared to evolve. American Idiot and onwards sure as hell aren't punk albums, but they're not pop, and there's no way they fit into the alternative rock category. It's all just semantics. They're Green Day, they're influenced by punk, they do their own version of modern pop-punk, simple as that. But the whole punk purity argument is ridiculous even on the face of it, so I have no desire to get into that. I wasn't saggin GD on it and aside from 2 songs from Insomniac it is their only album that's closet to punk GD to me is just rock just music imo
munns6691 Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Guys it doesn't matter who is more "musically talented" they work friggin great together and that is why they are a band!
The Disappearing Boy Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 It's Jeff for me. The way he stands there doing nothing is just brilliant. Genius.
Guest Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 It's Jeff for me. The way he stands there doing nothing is just brilliant. Genius. I like the way he fondles pigeons.
Spike Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I always laugh and laugh and laugh over the "punk purity" thing. GD hasn't tried to actively label themselves a punk band for as long as I can remember, but it's always the first thing people bring up when they have a go at them. Sure, GD gives a nod to their roots, as any band should, but they don't go around like "zomg we r so punk rawk." To me it just seems like the stupidest argument ever Exactly! Johnny Rotten can advertise butter but Green Day can't write guitar driven songs with a punk attitude and pop sensibilities without getting shit? Sounds reasonable...
Guest Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Exactly! Johnny Rotten can advertise butter but Green Day can't write guitar driven songs with a punk attitude and pop sensibilities without getting shit? Sounds reasonable... Don't worry, Johnny gets plenty of shit for that
Z J Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 They have to get permission before hand to air it the WORDS of the song are COPYWRITTEN there for they need permission from the publishing company and the owners of said copywrite if you go on tv and just sang the words to a James Brown song without permission no music just the words his estate will have you served with a lawsuit by the next day... Billies a good singer but he's not the greatest and AI is not impossible to sing at all And if I ever see the dude again ill film it for ya can't say when as I hardly drink now I wasn't saggin GD on it and aside from 2 songs from Insomniac it is their only album that's closet to punk GD to me is just rock just music imo From what I can find on the subject, you can pay a royalty to the publisher, which is true of every artist. No special permission is necessary for Green Day. You still haven't told me, what Green Day songs showcase vocals? There are very few. And that's my point.
Spike Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 It's a damn shame Billie's vocals aren't showcased more. He's clearly very good. 21 Guns, Restless Heart Syndrome, Brutal Love and Last Night On Earth are all impressive vocally, as is the Everly Brothers cover we've heard. I kinda hope he gives himself more room to showcase that side of him in future.
WhiteTim Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 From what I can find on the subject, you can pay a royalty to the publisher, which is true of every artist. No special permission is necessary for Green Day. You still haven't told me, what Green Day songs showcase vocals? There are very few. And that's my point. Dude please learn LAWS and COPYRIGHTS hell go buy all you need to know about music business You can not use ANY copyrighted material without permission be it lyrics or music AI only uses songs they have permission to do My friend who was on AI last year had a lot of songs he wanted to do but got vetoed cause they didn't have permission to use em Case in point Jay Z used some lines from Smells Like Teen Spirit didn't use ANY of the music or any of the actual recording just a phrase he still had to clear it with The End Of The Music Publishing and the Estate of Kurt Cobain to use it... And as far as Billie vocals Brutal Love Last Night Restless pretty much the ballads they've done all im saying is theres no GD song that is impossible for other singers to pull off..
The Disappearing Boy Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Dude please learn LAWS and COPYRIGHTS hell go buy all you need to know about music business You can not use ANY copyrighted material without permission be it lyrics or music AI only uses songs they have permission to do My friend who was on AI last year had a lot of songs he wanted to do but got vetoed cause they didn't have permission to use em Case in point Jay Z used some lines from Smells Like Teen Spirit didn't use ANY of the music or any of the actual recording just a phrase he still had to clear it with The End Of The Music Publishing and the Estate of Kurt Cobain to use it... And as far as Billie vocals Brutal Love Last Night Restless pretty much the ballads they've done all im saying is theres no GD song that is impossible for other singers to pull off.. It's kind of stupid in a way isn't it? I mean, how can you copywrite words? Afterall, that is all lyrics are.
Z J Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Dude please learn LAWS and COPYRIGHTS hell go buy all you need to know about music business You can not use ANY copyrighted material without permission be it lyrics or music AI only uses songs they have permission to do My friend Stero Hoggz were on AI last year they had a lot of songs they wanted to do but got vetoed cause they didn't have permission to use em Case in point Jay Z used some lines from Smells Like Teen Spirit didn't use ANY of the music or any of the actual recording just a phrase he still had to clear it with The End Of The Music Publishing and the Estate of Kurt Cobain to use it... And as far as Billie vocals Brutal Love Last Night Restless pretty much the ballads they've done all im saying is theres no GD song that is impossible for other singers to pull off.. Paying a royalty fee to a publisher IS receiving permission. There has been an instance where Good Riddance was sang on a show so they clearly allow their songs to be used. Waiting, Jesus Of Suburbia, Holiday, St. Jimmy, Platypus, American Idiot, Macy's Day Parade, Castaway, Church On Sunday, and a variety of other songs are all songs that are not singer songs. There is little room for a vocalist to add any runs or anything else with out losing the pocket of the song. There aren't any big notes. As a result of their songs being melody and tempo driven, nobody really attempts their songs, because there are no opportunities to show off. It's a damn shame Billie's vocals aren't showcased more. He's clearly very good. 21 Guns, Restless Heart Syndrome, Brutal Love and Last Night On Earth are all impressive vocally, as is the Everly Brothers cover we've heard. I kinda hope he gives himself more room to showcase that side of him in future. Agreed. There were some incredible vocal performances during the 21cb tour and I hope with the good vocal he gave on the Everly Brothers Cover that he is training his voice again. That is basically what my side of this is, Green Day songs don't showcase vocals most of the time.
Tubbie Head Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 It's a damn shame Billie's vocals aren't showcased more. He's clearly very good. 21 Guns, Restless Heart Syndrome, Brutal Love and Last Night On Earth are all impressive vocally, as is the Everly Brothers cover we've heard. I kinda hope he gives himself more room to showcase that side of him in future. I'm pretty happy with most of the songs lacking falsettos and stuff like that to be honest. It's good to hear the songs where he shows that, but I don't think it's necessary to have it in every song, I mean... He has a really great tone and I love his voice as it is, he doesn't need to go for super massive vocal gymnastics.
WhiteTim Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Waiting, Jesus Of Suburbia, Holiday, St. Jimmy, Platypus, American Idiot, Macy's Day Parade, Castaway, Church On Sunday, and a variety of other songs are all songs that are not singer songs. There is little room for a vocalist to add any runs or anything else with out losing the pocket of the song. There aren't any big notes. As a result of their songs being melody and tempo driven, nobody really attempts their songs, because there are no opportunities to show off. Oh ok I agree with that I misunderstood what you meant I took it like you meant it was impossible for another singer to sing those songs my bad
Z J Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Oh ok I agree with that I misunderstood what you meant I took it like you meant it was impossible for another singer to sing those songs my bad Not impossible just that nobody wants to haha I should've underlined my actual point a little more clearly.
Spike Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I'm pretty happy with most of the songs lacking falsettos and stuff like that to be honest. It's good to hear the songs where he shows that, but I don't think it's necessary to have it in every song, I mean... He has a really great tone and I love his voice as it is, he doesn't need to go for super massive vocal gymnastics. Well yeah, I'm not saying I want him to do it all the time. Insomniac is my favourite album, that says a lot about the vocals I like in general. But it's nice to see another side to him and to hear it on maybe 3 or 4 songs an album would be really good, especially as they're now so good at writing glorified power ballads.Also amma just leave this here to make the point about how good a singer Billie is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2qropamBjI
Z J Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I'm pretty happy with most of the songs lacking falsettos and stuff like that to be honest. It's good to hear the songs where he shows that, but I don't think it's necessary to have it in every song, I mean... He has a really great tone and I love his voice as it is, he doesn't need to go for super massive vocal gymnastics. I like some of the improv runs he did during the 21CB tour. In JOS and 21 Guns especially. His falsetto is surprisingly good for someone who is such a heady singer. It doesn't sound forced. Very apparent on Last Night on Earth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfbJRR1Iu-o Also amma just leave this here to make the point about how good a singer Billie is. oh god she tried to do the accent. You don't do that.
Tubbie Head Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I like some of the improv runs he did during the 21CB tour. In JOS and 21 Guns especially. His falsetto is surprisingly good for someone who is such a heady singer. It doesn't sound forced. Very apparent on Last Night on Earth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfbJRR1Iu-o Oh yes, I love that! But I think he's already doing a good job at showcasing that side of him since 21st CBD!
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