fromdecimateddreams Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 21CB is good and all, I just don't think the serious attitude and operatic style really demonstrates who Green Day is as a band, if that makes any sense. If it's your gateway to dig deeper into GD's discography, then great! That's wonderful, really! I just don't think it's Green Day's greatest work or an album that will come to mind 25 years from now when someone says "Green Day." Doesn't AI also have a serious attitude and operatic style as well, though? AI and 21stCB are obviously both concept albums, and in order to create a successful concept album dealing with the subject matter that those two deal with, a more serious and operatic approach is necessary in both. I guess I don't really see where the comparison between Dookie and AI is coming from, cause the way I look at it, they're not very similar.
DookieLukie Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Doesn't AI also have a serious attitude and operatic style as well, though? AI and 21stCB are obviously both concept albums, and in order to create a successful concept album dealing with the subject matter that those two deal with, a more serious and operatic approach is necessary in both. I guess I don't really see where the comparison between Dookie and AI is coming from, cause the way I look at it, they're not very similar. You're right, they're not. But with AI and 21CB, there is a big difference. One is energy. Another is a sense of humor. American Idiot, while lighthearted, has the classic tongue-in-cheek comedy that Green Day is famous for. Partly because the lyrics are more easily digestible. When I listen to AI, I picture Billie with a smile on his face. 21CB seems stressed and forced, which makes sense due to all the expectations for that album. I'm just saying that AI has a much more lighthearted tone to it, and a ton of sarcasm in the lyrics. It is also less operatic too. Not so many strings and other effects that 21CB had.
WhiteTim Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Doesn't AI also have a serious attitude and operatic style as well, though? AI and 21stCB are obviously both concept albums, and in order to create a successful concept album dealing with the subject matter that those two deal with, a more serious and operatic approach is necessary in both. I guess I don't really see where the comparison between Dookie and AI is coming from, cause the way I look at it, they're not very similar. He picks what he wants to dislike albums he uses the 21st is just power chords while overlooking AI is power chord heaven as well But whatever they dont have a bad album and with 11 albums everyone gonna have different favorite albums
fromdecimateddreams Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 You're right, they're not. But with AI and 21CB, there is a big difference. One is energy. Another is a sense of humor. American Idiot, while lighthearted, has the classic tongue-in-cheek comedy that Green Day is famous for. Partly because the lyrics are more easily digestible. When I listen to AI, I picture Billie with a smile on his face. 21CB seems stressed and forced, which makes sense due to all the expectations for that album. I'm just saying that AI has a much more lighthearted tone to it, and a ton of sarcasm in the lyrics. It is also less operatic too. Not so many strings and other effects that 21CB had. Hmm. I understand your point about the sarcastic end of AI, but I don't necessarily agree with the "lighthearted" part. AI has some pretty heavy subject matter, as we all can recognize, and I can't really think of any instances when it was particularly lighthearted, except for maybe St. Jimmy. I mean, I definitely agree that AI is the better album, but I don't think 21stCB deserves so much slating. There's a lot of genius in that album as well, and in my opinion, some of the lyrics are pretty phenomenal.
DookieLukie Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 He picks what he wants to dislike albums he uses the 21st is just power chords while overlooking AI is power chord heaven as well But whatever they dont have a bad album and with 11 albums everyone gonna have different favorite albums I know AI has power chords lol. I wasn't saying 21CB was bad BECAUSE of power chords. I was saying that it wasn't as complex and intricate as everyone makes it out to be. It's still mostly power chords.
WhiteTim Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I know AI has power chords lol. I wasn't saying 21CB was bad BECAUSE of power chords. I was saying that it wasn't as complex and intricate as everyone makes it out to be. It's still mostly power chords. I dont think anyone said it was complex (that I recall) just that it was epic which it was it being epic doesnt mean its a complex album lyrically yeah imo
Z J Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I know AI has power chords lol. I wasn't saying 21CB was bad BECAUSE of power chords. I was saying that it wasn't as complex and intricate as everyone makes it out to be. It's still mostly power chords. guitar riffs aren't the only way to characterize an album as complex or not. but epic is the word being thrown around more anyway, and it is pretty epic. Also, I'm curious to know some songs/lyrics that you feel are forced/stressful from 21 CB?
DookieLukie Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I dont think anyone said it was complex (that I recall) just that it was epic which it was it being epic doesnt mean its a complex album lyrically yeah imo Oh srry. I thought epic meant complex. My bad. guitar riffs aren't the only way to characterize an album as complex or not. but epic is the word being thrown around more anyway, and it is pretty epic. Also, I'm curious to know some songs/lyrics that you feel are forced/stressful from 21 CB? Not any songs in particular. Just the whole idea of the album. It seems like they did it merely because of the success of AI.
Jason Fox Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Thought I'd just jump in on this. Well, 21stCB definitely isn't my favorite GD album but that doesn't mean I don't think it isn't great. I think it's got a great tone and mood, and to reference an post above, maybe I like stressful and overbearing music *looking at you Pink Floyd* I think it also encapsulates a lot of what GD is about, not all at once, but it does definitely deliver. So, that said, if one where to hear GD for the first time via this album (and they enjoyed it), I believe that it'd be a great start and would provoke one to delve deeper into the band's music. And elaborating on that, if a friend were to ask, I'd say "Here, listen to this," and hand them a copy of 21stCB, mostly because it's very popular and instantly recognizable, and I'd also probably give them a copy of Dookie to give them the solid foundation of Green Day. That is all.
Guest Trotsky Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 21st Century Breakdown is my 3rd favourite album. I think that this album is equivalent to American Idiot.
tammy_cool Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I like BIAB better, but I'm a little bit biased because I was there. I like the interview bits, they're funny and add a new dimension to the whole thing
DookieLukie Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Thought I'd just jump in on this. Well, 21stCB definitely isn't my favorite GD album but that doesn't mean I don't think it isn't great. I think it's got a great tone and mood, and to reference an post above, maybe I like stressful and overbearing music *looking at you Pink Floyd* I think it also encapsulates a lot of what GD is about, not all at once, but it does definitely deliver. So, that said, if one where to hear GD for the first time via this album (and they enjoyed it), I believe that it'd be a great start and would provoke one to delve deeper into the band's music. And elaborating on that, if a friend were to ask, I'd say "Here, listen to this," and hand them a copy of 21stCB, mostly because it's very popular and instantly recognizable, and I'd also probably give them a copy of Dookie to give them the solid foundation of Green Day. That is all. 21CB is one of the least known Green Day albums in the mainstream eye. Certainly not well known. See I take it that everyone here loves 21CB. I am entitled to my opinion, but the sad thing is that if I bashed Dookie of AI, GD's landmark and worldwide known works, everyone would probably agree with me. I think this because this forum likes to call Dookie overrated. I guess I'm dealing with fans here that are very different than me, so I'll just shutup up 21CB.
DookieLukie Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 The sarcasm is a bit much. No reason to mock me just bc I don't like your beloved album. I certainly don't get butthurt when you guys bash Dookie. Just saying, you don't need to be rude buddy.
Guest Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Can't we all just get along? Maybe even agree that 21CB sucks while we're at it?
Anaïs. Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 See I take it that everyone here loves 21CB. I am entitled to my opinion, but the sad thing is that if I bashed Dookie of AI, GD's landmark and worldwide known works, everyone would probably agree with me. I think this because this forum likes to call Dookie overrated. I guess I'm dealing with fans here that are very different than me, so I'll just shutup up 21CB. It's not because of your opinion that you get into trouble, it's that you go out of your way to be an asshole about it. You can't just say you don't like the antics of some screaming fangirls at concerts (which I think we can all safely agree with), you have to qualify that by saying that girls as a sex have no taste in music. You can't just say why you don't like 21CB and then engage in discussion about it, you have to add a snide comment that looks down on people who may have begun their Green Day experience with that album. Even if you're right in your opinions, your rude and sometimes just plain mean comments are guaranteed to alienate others and lead to fighting. Might wanna change your style of argument. Just a thought.
Chelsee Angevine Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I was we'll into my 20's when dookie was released & it was amazing to me - totally hooked me. So I was a long way over what happens as a teenager. When I come around is still my favourite song & it is still my favourite album albeit for sentimental reasons. Well, some people can relate to/enjoy the teenage themes and sounds when they are older. I meant it as like, it's aimed at the stereotypical teenager. Not that there's anything wrong with being kind of like a teenager into your 20's. I'm just not really into it, even just at 20. Not saying I'm more mature or that anyone is less mature for preferring Dookie, just like, I feel more drawn to the deeper lyrics and political themes. Generally goes with being older. Ok but listening to an album a lot doesn't make it good lol. I once said Green Day was better than Blink-182 and defended that with the fact that I could name all of Green Day's albums. Granted I was young and naive back then, but don't fall into the same trap. American Idiot to me is a better album. It's more streamlined and relatable. A clear storyline too. 21CB is produced in a grandoise fashion, I'll give you that. But in terms of accomplishing its goal, it doesn't do the trick for me. Overly complicated lyrics. Lack of humor makes it seem far too serious for a Green Day album. I felt like it was Green Day saying "Woah...you guys liked American Idiot? Hmm want some more?" Don't get me wrong, it has a lot of great tracks. Just too serious and not as fun/catchy. And additionally, for all the grandiosity and intricacy you claim it to have, most of the songs still rely on powerchords and basic song structure. True. The American Idiot storyline is way more easy to follow and honestly I think it's something more people go through than the Christian/Gloria one. Though I do think BJ actually just wrote another storyline album because he always talks about how much he likes to write them. I totally prefer 21stCB any day of the week. It may even be my favorite GD album -- perhaps tied with Insomniac. But if I were any average Joe on the street, I'd probably say AI. I personally just happen to relate more to what's going on in 21st right now. Little Boy Named Train is not as good as everyone makes out. I really don't get why everyone likes this song. Doesn't everyone hate this song? Me included, but I feel like that is popular opinion.
fromdecimateddreams Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I dunno, I quite like A Little Boy Named Train, but I can understand why people don't.
Jason Fox Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 21CB is one of the least known Green Day albums in the mainstream eye. Certainly not well known. See I take it that everyone here loves 21CB. I am entitled to my opinion, but the sad thing is that if I bashed Dookie of AI, GD's landmark and worldwide known works, everyone would probably agree with me. I think this because this forum likes to call Dookie overrated. I guess I'm dealing with fans here that are very different than me, so I'll just shutup up 21CB. I completely respect that, don't get me wrong, and I personally LOVE Dookie. The point that I was trying to make though is that if I asked a casual Green Day listener who hadn't heard much of the band, chances are they would only recognize a couple of Dookie's singles. However (and this is how I got a good friend of mine into Green Day), if I had them listen to some songs on 21stCB, they find that they know a couple of them (i.e. Know Your Enemy, 21 Guns), and maybe they even like the album as a whole, and then they start to explore from there.
Batgirl Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Can't we all just get along? Maybe even agree that 21CB sucks while we're at it? hey yo' what's your problem, man? how 'bout we agree to disagree?
DookieLukie Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 It's not because of your opinion that you get into trouble, it's that you go out of your way to be an asshole about it. You can't just say you don't like the antics of some screaming fangirls at concerts (which I think we can all safely agree with), you have to qualify that by saying that girls as a sex have no taste in music. You can't just say why you don't like 21CB and then engage in discussion about it, you have to add a snide comment that looks down on people who may have begun their Green Day experience with that album. Even if you're right in your opinions, your rude and sometimes just plain mean comments are guaranteed to alienate others and lead to fighting. Might wanna change your style of argument. Just a thought. The "sexist" comment you're referring to is weeks old by now. And you're right, I shouldn't get frustrated on this forum so easily. I'm just seeing lots of ties to those screaming fangirls and the glorification of 21CB. That's just my experience and doesn't speak for the GD fanbase as a whole. One of my close friends is one of those screaming fangirls and she's obsessed with 21CB and things Dookie and Insomniac are "screamo". So you can see the examples I have in my life and why I make those generalizations. But srry and I really don't want to sound like an asshole. Ha. I guess my favorite albums and preferences aren't "popular" in the GD forum, so I guess it's good I'm on this thread lol
iScottie Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I used to get shit when I first started listening to Green Day. People used to tell me I wasn't a real Green Day fan because I thought American Idiot was their best album (it was their first album I heard; it is their best - suck it) when everyone else thought it to be Dookie.
HolyHandGrenade Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I used to get shit when I first started listening to Green Day. People used to tell me I wasn't a real Green Day fan because I thought American Idiot was their best album (it was their first album I heard; it is their best - suck it) when everyone else thought it to be Dookie. Are you kidding me? Dos is like a work of genius!
DookieLukie Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I used to get shit when I first started listening to Green Day. People used to tell me I wasn't a real Green Day fan because I thought American Idiot was their best album (it was their first album I heard; it is their best - suck it) when everyone else thought it to be Dookie. Now it's the opposite lol Well on the forum at least.
fromdecimateddreams Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I used to get shit when I first started listening to Green Day. People used to tell me I wasn't a real Green Day fan because I thought American Idiot was their best album (it was their first album I heard; it is their best - suck it) when everyone else thought it to be Dookie. I still get this, actually. AI is my favourite album of theirs and apparently that isn't deemed as what a "real fan" should be. But hey, we're allowed to like what we like, and anyone else can stick that in their juice box and suck it.
Jon Benjamin Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Don't know if this is unpopular or not yet, but I hate the "Jeff Matika Show" interview with Billie.
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