John Kiffmeyer and Sean Hughes

[Heather.]

Even if he did cash those checks, I can't picture him getting rich off of 1039. When it comes to big record companies, if you sell 1 million albums and it grosses $15 million dollars, the artist might get like .25 cents for every album sold. I have no idea what Green Day's deal is, but there's no way John has gotten more than like $100K out of Green Day. Which is no small piece of dough, mind you, but it's not exactly going to set him up for life, especially living in pricey (Northern) California.

It's kinda fucked up actually how little artists make off of selling their own albums. I remember some Green Day documentary (one of those Pogo Paradise ones) where someone said to them "You're gonna need to sell ten times as many albums with Warner to make half as much as you're making on Lookout the way major labels are so fucked up. If you're gonna sell a million albums, stay on an indie, you'll make a lot more money... if you're gonna sell 10 million albums, go to Warner." Green Day was lucky in that they *have* twice sold 10 million copies of one album, but it takes a looooot for them to get filthy rich off of sales. Touring is probably only slightly better. The real dough, unfortunately, would probably come from REAL "selling out" (i.e. butter commercials), which they really haven't done. They've let Green Day be marketed in various, mainstream ways, but they haven't exactly sold their bodies. I wonder if they got a nice check for that John Varvatos fashion commercial I think they deserve more of the money they're generating from their music, but I obviously don't feel sorry for them. It's just that movie stars get paid soooo much and I think musicians work much harder and do more good for society.

</ Digress

[deadair]

he is an official member... there's SEVERAL magazines of Billie saying this...

plus he was added to GD's contract labels do NOT add just anyone to contracts

he does have an instagram account jason_cuatroxx

you should get your facts straight before saying stuff wrong

I love Jason in the band, but it's debatable. Yes all your points are valid, but tell me why isn't he in most of the official GD promotional photos? Like on Ticketmaster or the photo used for the news about the tour announcement on Loudwire. He's an official member when they want him to be and an hired extra personnel member when they want him to be. Jason deserves to be an official member.

[WhiteTim]

I love Jason in the band, but it's debatable. Yes all your points are valid, but tell me why isn't he in most of the official GD promotional photos? Like on Ticketmaster or the photo used for the news about the tour announcement on Loudwire. He's an official member when they want him to be and an hired extra personnel member when they want him to be. Jason deserves to be an official member.

Maybe he doesn't like the publicity? he has the same instagram account as billie mike and tre but only used it 3 times

he's in the videos he is listed with the group on the albums (if he wasnt official he'd been listed as "additional musician" section) even Billie has said it multiple times but I guess the founder of the band has no say so....

[Fuzz]

Here's a whole topic debating whether or not Jason is actually a fourth member

http://www.greendaycommunity.org/topic/89419-jason-white-official-green-day-member/

[gerardsangel4977]

Even if he did cash those checks, I can't picture him getting rich off of 1039. When it comes to big record companies, if you sell 1 million albums and it grosses $15 million dollars, the artist might get like .25 cents for every album sold. I have no idea what Green Day's deal is, but there's no way John has gotten more than like $100K out of Green Day. Which is no small piece of dough, mind you, but it's not exactly going to set him up for life, especially living in pricey (Northern) California.

It's kinda fucked up actually how little artists make off of selling their own albums. I remember some Green Day documentary (one of those Pogo Paradise ones) where someone said to them "You're gonna need to sell ten times as many albums with Warner to make half as much as you're making on Lookout the way major labels are so fucked up. If you're gonna sell a million albums, stay on an indie, you'll make a lot more money... if you're gonna sell 10 million albums, go to Warner." Green Day was lucky in that they *have* twice sold 10 million copies of one album, but it takes a looooot for them to get filthy rich off of sales. Touring is probably only slightly better. The real dough, unfortunately, would probably come from REAL "selling out" (i.e. butter commercials), which they really haven't done. They've let Green Day be marketed in various, mainstream ways, but they haven't exactly sold their bodies. I wonder if they got a nice check for that John Varvatos fashion commercial I think they deserve more of the money they're generating from their music, but I obviously don't feel sorry for them. It's just that movie stars get paid soooo much and I think musicians work much harder and do more good for society.

</ Digress

Yeah. The average going rate for most major label contracts is 11-15% for new artists. This number can then be negotiated up over time if the artist proves successful. I would like to imagine Green Day's has been, but I've no idea how much. Conversely, some indie labels have royalty rates of up to 40%. Billie, even, had said at the time that they would've made more money on Lookout (though I'm assuming he's talking percentages because there's no way Dookie could've moved those numbers on an indie.) But, considering what happened to Lookout in the long run, things probably wouldn't have stayed that way. They get further royalties, of course, from all the movies, TV shows, commercials, and so on that their songs have been used in. Plus touring and merch money (and I think we can all agree that Green Day moves a LOT o merch these days ). But anyway.....according to Aaron Cometbus, Lookout ripped Green Day off for over $1 million dollars during the whole royalty-fiasco. So, under different circumstances, John could've made decent bank. But, on top of the checks he refused to cash, there were also a lot that he hasn't ever seen. And who knows what the deal is now that those albums are on Reprise.

[Milo Goes To Pasalacqua]

No He's not.Check Green Day's facebook page or greenday.com, there is no mention of him being an official member.He did not even appear in the recent green day videos(just a "cameo" in oh love).Also, there aint no instagram account of him.Just that a magazine quoted billie saying jasoon is an official member and that guy took it seriousy

It's in the liner notes, he's in group photos in the album artwork, his face is on Cuatro and Billie has said it in several interviews, i don't think he was joking. Though if he is an official member it is bizarre that he is rarely in press photos of the band now... Which is sorta sad.

Yes. I'm just going to start saying yes. This question has been coming up since American Idiot was released 8 years ago. So from now on - yes. Jason White is the fourth member.

Andres' word is final.

[WhiteTim]

. And who knows what the deal is now that those albums are on Reprise.

still have to pay him royalties no matter what label it's on

[Heather.]

Yeah. The average going rate for most major label contracts is 11-15% for new artists. This number can then be negotiated up over time if the artist proves successful. I would like to imagine Green Day's has been, but I've no idea how much. Conversely, some indie labels have royalty rates of up to 40%. Billie, even, had said at the time that they would've made more money on Lookout (though I'm assuming he's talking percentages because there's no way Dookie could've moved those numbers on an indie.) But, considering what happened to Lookout in the long run, things probably wouldn't have stayed that way. They get further royalties, of course, from all the movies, TV shows, commercials, and so on that their songs have been used in. Plus touring and merch money (and I think we can all agree that Green Day moves a LOT o merch these days ). But anyway.....according to Aaron Cometbus, Lookout ripped Green Day off for over $1 million dollars during the whole royalty-fiasco. So, under different circumstances, John could've made decent bank. But, on top of the checks he refused to cash, there were also a lot that he hasn't ever seen. And who knows what the deal is now that those albums are on Reprise.

I think there was a whole explanation about how Warner barely makes money from merch and the band probably gets none of it

[Milo Goes To Pasalacqua]

I know that Sean is a big friend of Mike and Billie and their families too They're still hanging out together nowadays, and Sean's sister is Jennifer....That Jennifer....the girl Billie fell in love with in the early days

Aw, that's nice.

[Akshat]

They really missed out on a lot :/

[LazyPhil]

They really missed out on a lot :/

Or maybe the band wouldn't be what it is today if John didn't leave and if Tré didn't join them.

And I remember that Sean said on MTV Driven that he got kicked out because he sucked. So maybe things worked out for the best.

[Cob]

I think there was a whole explanation about how Warner barely makes money from merch and the band probably gets none of it

Bands get a good chunk of merch sold. The music labels have nothing to do with shirts/mugs/etc. outside of licensing and all that jargon. The real money comes from tours and investments, that's how musicians get rich and stay rich. In the movie One Nine Nine Four, Fat Mike from NOFX talks about how he personally could make $8,000 off of a short tour playing punk rock back between '89 and '94, and I guarantee that number has gone up ten fold for most bands. But yeah, record sales, unless you go platinum, are useless towards a musicians income.

[WhiteTim]

Bands get a good chunk of merch sold. The music labels have nothing to do with shirts/mugs/etc. outside of licensing and all that jargon. The real money comes from tours and investments, that's how musicians get rich and stay rich. In the movie One Nine Nine Four, Fat Mike from NOFX talks about how he personally could make $8,000 off of a short tour playing punk rock back between '89 and '94, and I guarantee that number has gone up ten fold for most bands. But yeah, record sales, unless you go platinum, are useless towards a musicians income.

Not true anymore if the band is on a 360 deal labels get 10-20% of publishing merchendise tours etc

[LudeBoy]

Though if he is an official member it is bizarre that he is rarely in press photos of the band now... Which is sorta sad

Maybe the contracts for the shoots and the press at the time only had Billie mike and tre? I'm sure he'll be all press from now on.

[Cob]

Not true anymore if the band is on a 360 deal labels get 10-20% of publishing merchendise tours etc

Well that's some bullshit.

[J&TheNight]

Theres an interview with Billie Joe done by Larry Livermore (it's on his site) where Billie mentions that John never actually told them he was leaving the band. So when they picked Tre to replace him they returned the favor and never told him.

From what I understand, John wouldn't have liked to see Green Day on the path they took, so I really doubt he's bitter at their success.

I do wonder if he's continued to make money off the first album.

Something tells me he has made money off that first one. Even is he said he doesn't cash those checks. I mean, doesn't he have kids? Wouldn't it be smart to invest that money or lock it in a bank for when those kids grow up?

[tresrocknrollgf]

I wonder if John knows there's a community of people wondering about him and his existence

*just taking a moment to admire your beautiful default*

DEM NOSTRILS.

[gerardsangel4977]

still have to pay him royalties no matter what label it's on

I know. I just meant that I don't know what the arrangement is in terms of percentages and how the money is split, etc. in order to estimate how much he would/could be making from it.

I think there was a whole explanation about how Warner barely makes money from merch and the band probably gets none of it

As someone mentioned before, part of the reason bands are able to make more from merch is *because* the label doesn't get a huge cut of it. However, as White Tim pointed out, 360 deals are starting to change that. Most new artists to have been signed in the past decade have them as standard parts of their contracts. Likewise, the contracts of some older artists have been renegotiated to include them, though I don't know for sure if Green Day is one of those artists. Either way, those bands are still making more from merch and touring than their album sales, but it's not as much as it would've been without the 360 deal.

[desecrator09]

I never heard of that Sean guy but I guess he was never really that important. I do wish John coulda been in another band so we can know a little more about him.

[GreenDayDudeMatty]

Here's John Kiffmeyer back in October.

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Windy+Borman+John+Kiffmeyer+HBO+New+York+Premiere+JZtJBVJ1Dusl.jpg

[Todd]

Here's John Kiffmeyer back in October.

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Windy+Borman+John+Kiffmeyer+HBO+New+York+Premiere+JZtJBVJ1Dusl.jpg

I'm gonna cry. And I thought he looked old in those pics from Christmas 01-02

I guess it's true what they say about kids. They turn your hair grey

I wonder what Billie would say if he saw John with white/grey hair. Am I making a big deal of this? I think I am. I'm just shocked. We're so used to looking at the pictures of 19-year old handsome John... and now he looks like he's 68 or something

[Malleus]

What has Billie Joe or Mike said about John recently? I'm really interested in knowing what they think of their time together, if they regret it or are bitter or what.

[JIGD13]

Imagine John in Green Day? How do you think he would be now?

[Virtue]

I wonder what it must feel like for these guys, especially John, to see the band having so much success. Does he think about what could have been had he stayed with them? I wonder if they would have achieved as much as they have had he stayed.

It's pretty cool,but if he didn't leave,We would never have Tre D:

(Also remember Tre's Dad is the one who drove them around in the Book Mobile..So History could've played out so much differently if John stayed.)

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

From what i gathered from the interview Billie did with Larry Livermore where they mentioned John there was no love lost between them. Also in several places (one book and possibly that interview i can't remember) Billie mentioned how John turned up at the last minute to one of their gigs long after he had left them...when they were supporting Bad Religion and insisted on playing instead of Tre who was long with the band at this point. Billie said it was just so as to impress his college friends and he was seriously unimpressed to say the least (well he said a lot worse but you get the idea haha). Basically Billie made him sound like a total ass and I can't believe he did that to Tre :angry