netty Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 You've made two posts on this forum neither of which have made any sort of real contribution, your opinion means shit. post count doesn`t make your opinion any more valid. and you don`t have to be the most helpful member of the forums to be entitled to an opinion either. yours is the kind of post that drags the reputation of the community as a whole down to gutter level.
desertrose Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 But were the signs of his addiction there all along? “It’s sometimes hard to tell the difference between addictive type behavior and a rock star performance,” Mandy Baker, the Director at Origins Recovery Centers, told Celebuzz. However, Baker notes that Armstrong’s “general level of agitation and what seems to be his lack of self-control” are all signs of the frontman’s struggles with addiction. What kind of pressures do being a performer play on someone’s sobriety? “Certainly, the stress plays with the brain,” said Baker. “The schedule that we ask rock stars to keep certainly prevents them from developing some of the accountability networks that other individuals who are in recovery might be able to develop and would help them on their path to sobriety.” http://www.celebuzz....to-rehab-video/
Rivada Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 I'm glad that The Voice is already taped and set to air (a representative for the show has confirmed Armstrong has already recorded his part and the footage will air as planned during the current season). I'm sure it's inspiring footage.
Vic_Rattlehead Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Sorry if this has been posted, but this an interesting article. http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1694366/green-day-billie-joe-armstrong-uno.jhtml
Trina Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Thanks for your reply. I don't see you as cluttering up anything, by the way. But to clarify, I didn't mention The Network in order to compare it to abuse. I brought it up to compare it to the way this place reacted when the album was released. Billie was singing on the tracks and playing his guitar and yet it took DAYS before the posters here even "confirmed" that it was indeed a Green Day project. They were listening to Green Day, hearing them with their own ears, but believing the online stunt over their own common sense. That's why I reminded you of it. There is an influential power when you're famous - don't ever think that it can't be manipulated. Green Day has embraced questionable things like mainstream media for one reason - to get their music out there. So when a story like this one runs, I personally think that it's important to study alternative motives. And when I say that I'm "not worried" about him it means that I'm moving on with my daily activities and keeping him in mind, confidant in the hero that I believe him to be. Just because I don't want to make some tribute video or light candles or not google/discuss the story, doesn't mean that I'm laughing. No problem. Yeah, I know but I just don't want to be cluttering up this thread with a back-and-forth over somewhat unimportant things when my original post was asking we don't, y'know? I know but my point is, it's believable, okay and understandable...acceptable for them to "lie" about something like The Network because at the end of the day the lie is a joke and The Network is a fun project for them and the fans to enjoy. I feel it's a very different thing to lie and say Billie Joe is seeking treatment for substance abuse, ya get me? Like it wouldn't matter how many jokes they played on us, etc, I never believe they would lie about this. I mean, why would they? The only reason would be to save face of the record label or the festival or if they were worrying about their public image and when have we ever seen them be like that? Why'd they give a fuck what the festival thought? Besides appearances and concerts have been cancelled too. Why'd they go to those lengths just to keep up a lie? I wasn't on this forum when The Network started (though I have seen people deny it since ) though I was when The Tubbies came out and a lot of people were denying it and stuff. I get what you're trying to say but I just don't really agree they're comparable due to the difference in importance. I know that. I'm not following their statement like a blind sheep. I'm being rational and logical. I'm certainly not one to go along with things just cause I've been told to but I just don't feel this is one of those times where this should be questioned. The thing is, it's not a story running. It's a statement from a representative of Green Day that they would have agreed on. I have to disagree with you. Some things, no matter how undesirable just have to be accepted. Sometimes we have to realise we're being told the truth. I never seen or referenced you saying you're not worried so...again I'm not sure why you're saying this to me. But yes, you should be going about your daily activites, every should, if they can, y'know. I'm trying to, everyone is. I'm not involved in the tribute video and haven't submitted anything or taken part in any other...thing. My original post is the first time I've done anything about this or whatever so I don't really get your point. I sent reiki, yeah, but that's a personal thing, just sending good vibes as a desperate measure. Same as someone praying or whatever, no big deal. Probs not helpful but not harmful either. I never said you were laughing or thought it was funny. What I meant was that it's ok they lied about The Network because it was funny and was a joke and something to laugh at and enjoy but that this isn't like that, it's serious and not something I believe they'd lie about. I don't understand why you think they would but ok. If you want to reply again that's fine but I'll reply back as a pm, okay. Urgh, sorry guys for cluttering up the thread. Agh. Must.Get off.The internet.
farley drexel hatcher Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Ugh these bullshit celebuzz articles are doing my head in. They're just grasping at straws now. Plus while I agree with that MTV article on some level, Billie's lyrics have always been incredibly self deprecating or for lack of a better word, melodramatic. I agree some of the lyrics are eye openers for sure, but it's not the first time he's written these types of lyrics. It's his style. He has a song called 'Carpe Diem' on the album for god's sake. But personally i'm not sure what good this thread is doing anymore. There's only so much of the same stuff you can read.
21stcenturyidiot Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 post count doesn`t make your opinion any more valid. and you don`t have to be the most helpful member of the forums to be entitled to an opinion either. yours is the kind of post that drags the reputation of the community as a whole down to gutter level. He made a dickish comment that was shit, saying he's a lightweight and this is all BS
sick Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 It's not good if we're not talking about it either. It affects us as Green Day fans. At least me. MTV article btw.. goes too far. I mean me too i hear the songs on Uno a bit different now, but that is over analyzing and getting way too deep in his personal life.
Homero Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Oh gosh, 48 pages of speculation from the sentence "Billie Joe is seeking treatment for substance abuse". That i've read all of.. I don't think there is anything constructive anyone can add except for.. Best wishes to BJ and his family / friends. I agree, this thread depresses me, but well, we are worried of course. My best wishes for Billie Joe and his family/friends!
solongfromthestars Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 I skimmed that MTV article and have to say I really dislike the message. Uno should not be tainted because of this, whatever it was/is. Using lyrics like 'I'm a mess' and 'it won't be long till I detonate' as "evidence" of an upcoming "meltdown" is BS. That's nothing new in Green Day lyrics. The line in the article "or "Control" — when he documents all manner of depravity and dismisses those closest to him as "a bunch of sh--talking drama queens" - seriously? Have they ever heard Jackass or Reject? I suppose that Restless Heart Syndrome is also "evidence" that Billie has a pill-popping problem? No, just no. Uno is a fantastic record full of love and warmth and fun. No need to make it into some kind of "conceptual piece about Armstrong's descent". I don't know why I'm bothering to argue with an MTV article, but just don't like the idea of dragging the band's awesome new music into some kind of garbage conspiracy. Exactly this. I've been listening to Uno a lot and haven't seen it differently at all. There's no reason why the two things are forced to be related - and Billie's always been very open about his lyrics, so I'm pretty sure he'd have said it himself already. The way they're portraying some of the songs is really silly and a desperate stretch that sounds ridiculous anyway. The thing they said about Troublemaker, has the writer never met a sexually aroused man? jeez. I'm sure the rants in here are just as annoying as speculation but the way some things are being twisted is ridiculous.
Trina Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 But were the signs of his addiction there all along? “It’s sometimes hard to tell the difference between addictive type behavior and a rock star performance,” Mandy Baker, the Director at Origins Recovery Centers, told Celebuzz. However, Baker notes that Armstrong’s “general level of agitation and what seems to be his lack of self-control” are all signs of the frontman’s struggles with addiction. What kind of pressures do being a performer play on someone’s sobriety? “Certainly, the stress plays with the brain,” said Baker. “The schedule that we ask rock stars to keep certainly prevents them from developing some of the accountability networks that other individuals who are in recovery might be able to develop and would help them on their path to sobriety.” http://www.celebuzz....to-rehab-video/ Kinda gross someone whose meant to help people with addictions and substance abuse would comment publicly on someone's struggle when she obv's knows that's detrimental. Ew.
Ryan Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 I skimmed that MTV article and have to say I really dislike the message. Uno should not be tainted because of this, whatever it was/is. Using lyrics like 'I'm a mess' and 'it won't be long till I detonate' as "evidence" of an upcoming "meltdown" is BS. That's nothing new in Green Day lyrics. The line in the article "or "Control" — when he documents all manner of depravity and dismisses those closest to him as "a bunch of sh--talking drama queens" - seriously? Have they ever heard Jackass or Reject? I suppose that Restless Heart Syndrome is also "evidence" that Billie has a pill-popping problem? No, just no. Uno is a fantastic record full of love and warmth and fun. No need to make it into some kind of "conceptual piece about Armstrong's descent". I don't know why I'm bothering to argue with an MTV article, but just don't like the idea of dragging the band's awesome new music into some kind of garbage conspiracy. I completely see where you're coming from, but Billie has also been VERY up front about the fact that the majority of his lyrics come from personal experience. So how is it wrong to look at song like Restless Heart Syndrome like that? That's the very first thing I thought of when I heard it three years ago. I have always thought that Billie writes lyrics like he does as a way to address what he's going through without actually talking to the media about it. His life is in his lyrics...it has been since he started writing songs in 1988. If anything, I think it's irresponsible NOT to look at his lyrics as evidence of what's going on. It goes back to the blog post that Andres wrote yesterday.
captain peroxide Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Uno is a primarily lighthearted album and that article makes it seem like we can use each lyric as an "Oh wow I guess I should have seen that coming!" type thing. It is trying to make Uno forever tainted with this and I really can't stand that. I disagree with your first statement. Just because the songs are catchy and fun doesn't mean the subject matter isn't serious or important. Having said that, I hate everyone trying to retroactively go "oh yeah, that line must be about his obvious problems with drugs and alcohol." No. We can guess, sure, but nothing's certain. Having said THAT, Billie's life is in his lyrics. He's much more autobiographical than people seem to think. These songs are coming from an important emotional place for him, although that doesn't necessarily mean they're about his substance abuse.
Mar Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Tre has uploaded a pic of himself to instagram It is captioned "healthy steps" It's good to hear something from one of tge band members even if it's not very informative at least it has a positive caption This pun-making motherfucker <3
Trina Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 The MTV article is dumb in my opinion. Listen to their other albums, then you'll get a real scare! Almost all, if not all of their other records have much more worrying lyrics than Uno. Oh and I seen the "I wanna get inside of you" lyrics as clever and double meaning - the obvious and also wanting to get inside the person's head which he sings about in the next line. Why it's worrying though....I ain't sure. I have always thought though that Billie understated the reality of his lyrics in interviews. Can't blame him. Ah, my dad just came home from work. He's been gone since before the statement was released and I just told him about it and had a good cry. Then I threw my crumpled tissue at Billie's smug face on my Uno CD!! Ah Billie, I love you, fuck, get better, okay? Gonna get off the internet for a bit. All the stupid articles and shit are fuck fuckin' with my head!
Samantha Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 The MTV article is dumb in my opinion. Listen to their other albums, then you'll get a real scare! Almost all, if not all of their other records have much more worrying lyrics than Uno. Oh and I seen the "I wanna get inside of you" lyrics as clever and double meaning - the obvious and also wanting to get inside the person's head which he sings about in the next line. Why it's worrying though....I ain't sure. I have always thought though that Billie understated the reality of his lyrics in interviews. Can't blame him. Ah, my dad just came home from work. He's been gone since before the statement was released and I just told him about it and had a good cry. Then I threw my crumpled tissue at Billie's smug face on my Uno CD!! Ah Billie, I love you, fuck, get better, okay? Gonna get off the internet for a bit. All the stupid articles and shit are fuck fuckin' with my head! Just a quick note that MTV will do mostly anything in their power to be the most dramatic motherfuckers on the planet to make even the most mundane story seem juicy and worthy of your time. And they don't even do it well, its like they KNOW their populous is just teenage girls. Oh wait... I told my mom in the car yesterday that Billie checked himself into rehab and she dramatically punched the steering wheel and yelled "GOD DAMNIT!" SO proud that she birthed me in that moment I disagree with your first statement. Just because the songs are catchy and fun doesn't mean the subject matter isn't serious or important. Having said that, I hate everyone trying to retroactively go "oh yeah, that line must be about his obvious problems with drugs and alcohol." No. We can guess, sure, but nothing's certain. Having said THAT, Billie's life is in his lyrics. He's much more autobiographical than people seem to think. These songs are coming from an important emotional place for him, although that doesn't necessarily mean they're about his substance abuse.
DTH Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 im not going to read all 50 pages. but did somebody maybe got the idea billie doesnt have any alcohol problems and they did this statement cause they were heavily under pressure by their record label and all the media network who was behind that festival? what he said was rare for todays music industry. a rocknroll moment. his reaction showed me he is really frustrated and not happy with all the things he has to do (maby pressured by the record label).
Pieces of Truth Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 im not going to read all 50 pages. but did somebody maybe got the idea billie doesnt have any alcohol problems and they did this statement cause they were heavily under pressure by their record label and all the media network who was behind that festival? what he said was rare for todays music industry. a rocknroll moment. his reaction showed me he is really frustrated and not happy with all the things he has to do (maby pressured by the record label). Yep. This was several times mentioned. Believe me, we already brought pretty much everything possible and impossible up. We're running in circles - let's not discuss that again.
Trina Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Just a quick note that MTV will do mostly anything in their power to be the most dramatic motherfuckers on the planet to make even the most mundane story seem juicy and worthy of your time. And they don't even do it well, its like they KNOW their populous is just teenage girls. Oh wait... I told my mom in the car yesterday that Billie checked himself into rehab and she dramatically punched the steering wheel and yelled "GOD DAMNIT!" SO proud that she birthed me in that moment Yeah sure. Though they're not as bad as a lot of others. Yeah they certainly don't do it well though. Haha, omg, that's a great reaction. I was talking with my mom when I found out and I just dropped the convo and ran upstairs and hid in my bed but she must have known it had something to do with Green Day by my dramatic departure cause she checked online and came up to me like "I know what happened *le sob*" I think my dad was pretty surprised but he took it in his stride. ..And your gif made me laugh my first proper laugh since the news broke so thanks. haha im not going to read all 50 pages. but did somebody maybe got the idea billie doesnt have any alcohol problems and they did this statement cause they were heavily under pressure by their record label and all the media network who was behind that festival? what he said was rare for todays music industry. a rocknroll moment. his reaction showed me he is really frustrated and not happy with all the things he has to do (maby pressured by the record label).
scottrowan200 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Agree with CP above. Posting this from my phone so I don't see the quote button on the mobile version. Billie's life are definitely in his lyrics. Brain Stew was a younger Billie complaining of coming down off of "crosstops" which is a west coast slang term for amphetamines (not to be confused with meth to the uninitiated). Today's version of Brain Stew might be riddled with more self imploding issues. Alcohol and these types of vices go hand in hand. I'm speculating but who knows. Just hoping for the best for him. Its obviously a hard time for him. I thought brain stew was billie dealing with lack of sleep after his first child being up all night ect ahaha. Duno why lol
joeysturkeyhead Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Agree with CP above. Posting this from my phone so I don't see the quote button on the mobile version. Billie's life are definitely in his lyrics. Brain Stew was a younger Billie complaining of coming down off of "crosstops" which is a west coast slang term for amphetamines (not to be confused with meth to the uninitiated). Today's version of Brain Stew might be riddled with more self imploding issues. Alcohol and these types of vices go hand in hand. I'm speculating but who knows. Just hoping for the best for him. Its obviously a hard time for him. Couldn't agree more. Btw, if you go to the bottom of the page there's a button saying "full version", also if you wanna use the mobile version you can just click the post you wanna reply to and a reply button will appear.
No Rhyme Or Reason Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 This is a really good article, best one i've seen so far... and from MTV no less. You might not agree with everything, i dont either, but it's well put and something to think about. I'm not the only one who listens to UNO a bit differently now. http://www.mtv.com/n...rs=share_tumblr That's an interesting article. I agree with a lot of its overall arguments, though I think the details are where it goes wrong. In the article, the writer asks, "Is it possible for an album to exist in a vacuum?", and a bit later, "Had Armstrong's personal issues not come to light, would we view ¡Uno! differently? The answer is surely yes." The writer is definitely right in that regard. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Art comes from somewhere, and people can find meaning in works of art (be it literature, a song, a movie, etc) based on not only the author's personal life, but also the social and political world in which it was created. Like it or not, we all exist in a dynamic world, and everything affects us to some degree, big or small. Billie has been clear throughout the last two couple of decades that his songs are very personal, and generally to some extent about him. I forget who mentioned it in here, but when asked if he would ever write an autobiography, Billie replied that he already had: His songs tell the story of his life. We know songs like 2000 Light Years Away and 80 are about Adrienne; he's revealed that She, Good Riddance (Time Of Your Life), and Whatsername - among others - are about Amanda. He's stated that Church On Sunday was written when his and Adie's relationship was strained and she was considering divorce. He's said that the entire American Idiot album comes from his own feelings and experiences, even if not being exactly what he went through. He's even admitted that Christian and Gloria are kind of like two sides of himself. Billie's lyrics are extremely autobiographical, and he's always been honest about that fact. I have always heard his lyrics and guessed that he did indeed struggle with some kind of demons regarding alcohol and other drugs. I mean, in an interview some 10 yeas ago, he stated quite blatantly "I was a drunk" - referring to I think the Nimrod era. We know he's done marijuana, meth, acid, and whatever else. So hearing his lyrics about these substances and realizing that he's generally very autobiographical, I figured that these were indications of what he was going through (or had gone through in the past). Although I thought he had gotten everything under control by the Warning-American Idiot time, I'm not sure now. Maybe he had and this is a sort of relapse. Maybe it's been slowly escalating for the last 20 years. I don't know, and I'm not going to speculate. All we do know now is that he has been abusing substances for long enough now that he sees it necessary to seek treatment. This knowledge can definitely impact our understanding of the lyrics in Uno. (As well as their previous records.) It may not be correct - again, we're not sure how long this has been a problem, or how severe it has been - but naturally we will take our outside knowledge and apply it to his own words. There could very well be "clues" in his lyrics that pointed to his impending .... I'll call it turning point. If it has been going on for a while, it could have made it into his lyrics. But we also shouldn't assume that every possibly insightful lyric is actually about that. I think the general idea of the article is accurate. Our own personal lives as well as the larger world we live in naturally affects how we feel and view things and create art. But I think the writer is reaching when it comes to the specific lines he cites. I don't think they're all clues that Billie's had a substance abuse problem. He's told as the (partial?) meanings behind some of the songs, and they didn't all come from some dark place, I think. When looking at the lyrics, we should just try to be rational and not jump to conclusions about every single line because of our new knowledge.
gerardsangel4977 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Whoever else watched the pre-show Iheart interview, what the heck was up with Tre's corny plug "Iheart radio is just so cool" or whatever? There was like, no passion in his voice. Did anyone see Rihianna's set? Was it any good? Green Day said they wanted to blow everyone else outta the water in the same competitive way they talked about willingly performing with Blink on Pop Disaster... so I just wondered how that all looked in the end. And on a side note, lolz to fans who seem like they imagine GD as a squeaky clean group. GREEN DAY itself was a drug reference and they've been referencing various substances via lyrics ever since. Everyone remembers fat Billie Joe in his leopard thong singing King For A Day - a beer gut which he later attributed to drinking too much beer. Then he was suddenly a skinny little rail for the A Idiot Era and that screamed "cocaine" to me, but I'll never know for sure. It's his life and whether he needs a little or a lot of help, he's Billie Joe. Not Justin F*ing Beiber. <3 Okay, I'm not trying to whitewash BIllie by saying this, but I think it's a bit presumptuous to attribute his weight loss solely to a coke habit It is highly possible that he actually stopped drinking for awhile, and we know for a fact that *all* of the guys exercise and generally eat a lot healthier now than they used to, what with their tour chef making all sorts of specialized menus and such. That's an interesting article. I agree with a lot of its overall arguments, though I think the details are where it goes wrong. In the article, the writer asks, "Is it possible for an album to exist in a vacuum?", and a bit later, "Had Armstrong's personal issues not come to light, would we view ¡Uno! differently? The answer is surely yes." The writer is definitely right in that regard. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Art comes from somewhere, and people can find meaning in works of art (be it literature, a song, a movie, etc) based on not only the author's personal life, but also the social and political world in which it was created. Like it or not, we all exist in a dynamic world, and everything affects us to some degree, big or small. Billie has been clear throughout the last two couple of decades that his songs are very personal, and generally to some extent about him. I forget who mentioned it in here, but when asked if he would ever write an autobiography, Billie replied that he already had: His songs tell the story of his life. We know songs like 2000 Light Years Away and 80 are about Adrienne; he's revealed that She, Good Riddance (Time Of Your Life), and Whatsername - among others - are about Amanda. He's stated that Church On Sunday was written when his and Adie's relationship was strained and she was considering divorce. He's said that the entire American Idiot album comes from his own feelings and experiences, even if not being exactly what he went through. He's even admitted that Christian and Gloria are kind of like two sides of himself. Billie's lyrics are extremely autobiographical, and he's always been honest about that fact. I have always heard his lyrics and guessed that he did indeed struggle with some kind of demons regarding alcohol and other drugs. I mean, in an interview some 10 yeas ago, he stated quite blatantly "I was a drunk" - referring to I think the Nimrod era. We know he's done marijuana, meth, acid, and whatever else. So hearing his lyrics about these substances and realizing that he's generally very autobiographical, I figured that these were indications of what he was going through (or had gone through in the past). Although I thought he had gotten everything under control by the Warning-American Idiot time, I'm not sure now. Maybe he had and this is a sort of relapse. Maybe it's been slowly escalating for the last 20 years. I don't know, and I'm not going to speculate. All we do know now is that he has been abusing substances for long enough now that he sees it necessary to seek treatment. This knowledge can definitely impact our understanding of the lyrics in Uno. (As well as their previous records.) It may not be correct - again, we're not sure how long this has been a problem, or how severe it has been - but naturally we will take our outside knowledge and apply it to his own words. There could very well be "clues" in his lyrics that pointed to his impending .... I'll call it turning point. If it has been going on for a while, it could have made it into his lyrics. But we also shouldn't assume that every possibly insightful lyric is actually about that. I think the general idea of the article is accurate. Our own personal lives as well as the larger world we live in naturally affects how we feel and view things and create art. But I think the writer is reaching when it comes to the specific lines he cites. I don't think they're all clues that Billie's had a substance abuse problem. He's told as the (partial?) meanings behind some of the songs, and they didn't all come from some dark place, I think. When looking at the lyrics, we should just try to be rational and not jump to conclusions about every single line because of our new knowledge. Bravo. Well said. And the one part of your post puts something into light also: That while everything Billie writes is highly autobiographical, it's also not entirely linear. Songs that he wrote during one portion of his life may not see the light of day for many years after. And he is certainly no stranger to drawing on past experiences and past loves and whatnot to write new songs in the present either. So, yes, we are all well-aware (or should be) that Billie Joe is damaged goods. But it's not fair for people to turn lyrical speculation--or any speculation really--into a statement about how "we should've seen this coming". We can decipher meaning easy enough, but the whens, wheres, and whys are all still massive question marks that only Billie really knows, unless he deigns to let us in on it. And, lastly, can I just say how fed up I am with sanctimonious bastards making posts about how other people are "in denial" about the boys? Newsflash: NONE of the speculated explanations or outcomes of this whole thing leave the boys looking like saints. Any of the assumptions surrounding this entail also accepting some negative aspect of the guys' lives and/or personalities. So accusing people of any school of thought on this of being "in denial" and not wanting to accept chinks in the band's armor is just plain ludicrous. Not only that, but it makes the poster sound like they are certain that *their* chosen course of speculation is 100% without a doubt correct, and everyone else is just kidding themselves. It's hypocritical at best, and idiotic at worst. At this point, seeing that asinine phrase used in posts makes me want to scroll past the whole damn thing. /endrant
Rumpelstiltskin2000 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Sorry if it's already been posted but just found this article - don't think it really says anything different from the Celebuzz article other than saying that the Fillmore show has been cancelled (which we already knew) with no make-up date http://www.mercuryne...ober-year-until
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