Is Green Day still playing good music?

[Jimmy the Kid]

I fucking love Taylor Swift! She is amazing!

You despise Queen but love Taylor Swift?! Sorry, you don't like music.

I don't like Pink Floyd but it still think they are one of the best bands that ever lived. It's called having ears a knowing to read lyrics. The value goes far beyond liking the melody of a song. That's just an example, another one would be Dream Theater, i hate don't like the songs but i recognize that they are very technically gifted players and that their song is amazing for prog metal fans.

[Justin]

You despise Queen but love Taylor Swift?! Sorry, you don't like music.

I don't like Pink Floyd but it still think they are one of the best bands that ever lived. It's called having ears a knowing to read lyrics. The value goes far beyond liking the melody of a song. That's just an example, another one would be Dream Theater, i hate don't like the songs but i recognize that they are very technically gifted players and that their song is amazing for prog metal fans.

Oh the irony... nearly every comment in this thread is regarding how everyone interprets music differently so a collective agreement can never be reached and for liking one band over another i dont like music. The fact that Queen and Taylor Swift have zero comparability starts off this massive fail. So well done for your truly idiotic post.

Let me ask you, one very simple question. If for example my previous post i said that i loved Pearl Jam and dont like Queen, do i still not like music?

The fact that you then go on about the technicality of Dream Theater just adds to my point. You clearly are on some bandwagon where you assume Taylor Swift is some corporate "pop" singer. When in fact, she is quite an iconic person in the country genre which i am a huge fan of. Not to mention the fact, if you ever sat down and listened to her musically, she is very talented song writer lyrically and musically.

[Jimmy the Kid]

Oh the irony... nearly every comment in this thread is regarding how everyone interprets music differently so a collective agreement can never be reached and for liking one band over another i dont like music. The fact that Queen and Taylor Swift have zero comparability starts off this massive fail. So well done for your truly idiotic post.

Let me ask you, one very simple question. If for example my previous post i said that i loved Pearl Jam and dont like Queen, do i still not like music?

The fact that you then go on about the technicality of Dream Theater just adds to my point. You clearly are on some bandwagon where you assume Taylor Swift is some corporate "pop" singer. When in fact, she is quite an iconic person in the country genre which i am a huge fan of. Not to mention the fact, if you ever sat down and listened to her musically, she is very talented song writer lyrically and musically.

No. There are bands that created iconic songs, songs that influenced genres, sometimes creating them. Then there are artists like Beyonce, Kanye West, etc, that sell to the masses, the music os not genuine, inventive, not music at all if you consider that most of the themes have been plagiarized to death. In 10 or 20 years nobody will remember Taylor Swift or Rihanna, but bands like Green Day, Offspring, Dream Theatre, etc, will be touted as some of the best from their generation.

I have a friend that HATES Tool, but still considers them a good band with good songs. I HATE Madonna, but her past made her the Pop Queen, the one who, on pair with Michael Jackson, created modern Pop music.

Everybody is entitled to interpret music differently, but DESPISING Queen and then liking Taylor Swift showcases your musical knowledge and likings. Sorry but, regarding "good/bad" music, I cannot agree with you after you said that.

[StuckWithRob]

To get back to the original post, I have learned a lot of Green Day songs on guitar and am well aware of the similarity between them. However, if you try to learn the solos of songs like American Idiot or Give Me Novocaine they require some work. As a singer and guitarist it's inevitable that Billie Joe can't play the hardest parts while singing. If you consider the whole band however, the basslines, drum parts, harmonies etc are all technically good. Green Day may be at risk of having a generic style of song (maybe Suffocate is the ultimate one?), but then every band has a definite sound. They have experimented however have arrived in their genre 20 years too late, they can never escape from the fact they're influenced by The Clash, Ramones etc despite I believe Green Day have added a harmonious (and ok more pop) style to punk rock.

However music does not have to be technically good to be enjoyable. Billie Joe Armstrong can't read music, but then, neither could Paul McCartney or John Lennon and they're basically beyond criticism as musicians.

The original post mentions how Bieber and The Clash use the same chord progressions, but that is what music is like, the human ear likes certain chord changes and in a world of music 'business' it's inevitable certain sounds will become common, eg. the progression D, A, G, or B, F sharp, G sharp.

So to reply to the question 'are Green Day still making good music?', I think we will have to wait for the trilogy to be released first. However from what I've heard they've got a real 'live' sound to the music, and the attitude of 'if you don't like us, shut your mouth cos you're talking too much and I don't give a fuck anyway', so let yourself go and enjoy the music. And why not, Green Day are the biggest band in the world at the moment and have written songs which will be noted in history: 'Basket Case', 'Time of Your Life', 'American Idiot' and 'Boulevard of Broken Dreams' will always be remembered. No one can take that away from Green Day, so now they can do what they like as if they retired tomorrow, they would still be very rich, famous and be remembered as a great band.

[Justin]

No. There are bands that created iconic songs, songs that influenced genres, sometimes creating them. Then there are artists like Beyonce, Kanye West, etc, that sell to the masses, the music os not genuine, inventive, not music at all if you consider that most of the themes have been plagiarized to death. In 10 or 20 years nobody will remember Taylor Swift or Rihanna, but bands like Green Day, Offspring, Dream Theatre, etc, will be touted as some of the best from their generation.

I have a friend that HATES Tool, but still considers them a good band with good songs. I HATE Madonna, but her past made her the Pop Queen, the one who, on pair with Michael Jackson, created modern Pop music.

Everybody is entitled to interpret music differently, but DESPISING Queen and then liking Taylor Swift showcases your musical knowledge and likings. Sorry but, regarding "good/bad" music, I cannot agree with you after you said that.

Oh dear, the fact that you dont class someone like Beyonce as iconic just proves my point how little you know about music outside of a rock genre.

She sells music of mass proportions simply because she is musically talented. Im not even a fan of her but if you cant see that she is a unique artist and original sums it up.

The fact that you honestly think that someone like Rihanna or Taylor Swift wont be remembered in future years is an audacious statement. Both of them are huge within there genre and the amounts of awards and sold records they both achieve summarises that.

Taylor Swift for one is the youngest ever person to write a number 1 song within the country music chart, not to mention won 6 grammys and not to mention she was inducted in the song writers hall of fame in 2010.

This is going ridiculously off topic, but if your narrow mindedness allows you to state that a person disliking one band over another means they dont know music, you are an idiot.

[No Rhyme Or Reason]

Minor thing I want to mention:

Responding to the fact that the same chord progressions are used by The Clash and Justin Bieber (and countless other artists!), this is like written (and spoken) language: Sentences have to be strung together in certain ways for them to make sense, so in a way all novels, for example, are utilizing the same exact formula, just like music. It has to go Subject/Verb/Object, and when you mix it up - say, Verb/Subject/Object - it loses some of its meaning. The fact that the same chord progressions are used time and again doesn't mean the artist isn't being creative or original per se, it just means that they understand the necessity of using some pre-established formulas. It's been said that nothing is original anymore - every thought, ever story is all in some way plagiarizing the past. In a way that's true, but we also have to understand the reasoning behind it, and how we can take the old, original ideas and turn them into something new and different.

I think that's what good musicians - like Green Day - do. They can take these commonly used chord progressions, or lyrical cliche phrases, and put them together in a different way that communicates a new message. I love that.

Also, just because someone uses the same chord progression in a song, or phrase in a book, as some iconic musician/writer/whatever before them does not mean that they have comparable quality. If Rebecca Black's song "Friday" had the some chord progression as a Mozart piece, would that make it good? No. Same with writing: If Stephanie Mayer used the same phrases in her Twilight books as Shakespeare did in his sonnets, would that mean her works are on par with his? No. It all depends on how the music/words were used in the specific piece. That's what matters.

I hope that made sense. It's something we talked about a lot when I was getting my Bachelor's in English.... It seemed like the concept was applicable here.

[EJN]

There are many ways in which songwriters can make songs "good." While some bands use different progressions, some bands bend the rules of progression (knowingly or unknowingly) and make their own. However, this is not the only way to make original music. Green Day has utilized more complex progressions, but they also use chord voicing, song structure, and interplay between the various parts in their music to create an original sound, and original songs. There are only so many progressions in music, and there are only so many geniuses who can break these rules, but they are not the only geniuses.

Instrumentally I do believe Green Day is a talented band. Billie Joe is certainly not a guitar solo hero, however if you listen closely you can hear subtle aspects in his playing that lend his songs unique voice. He is also very talented at creating interplay in songs in which there are more than one guitar part. Mike Dirnt is a very good bass player. He has speed, power, and taste in his creation of basslines. He is also capable of playing many styles that are not heard in Green Day's music. Along a similar line, Tre Cool is a very good drummer. His drum parts are tasteful, and very powerful. Tre also knows more styles than are heard in Green Day's music. Part of being a good artist (not just musician) is the ability to compose songs on your instrument that fit with the piece you are trying to create. In a band setting this involves playing off of the other members of the band. Green Day is one of the tightest bands I have ever heard. They work very well together to create original, interesting music, even if they are only using a few chords

[!]

To answer the thread starters question, I will say that you may be asking the wrong crowd. A lot of casual listeners don't know how to play an instrument so they don't care about that part of music making. All casual listeners care about is if it sounds good to them. And to comment about the LA times article thing who gave let yourself go a bad review. When you become as big as green day, you just can't please everyone. If Green Day made all of their albums after Dookie sound like Dookie, people will complain on how they're making the same kind of music, yet if you change your style, you're a sellout. In the end, you just won't win. Many successful artists go through this.

[Blond-O-Sonic Shimmer Trap]

No. There are bands that created iconic songs, songs that influenced genres, sometimes creating them. Then there are artists like Beyonce, Kanye West, etc, that sell to the masses, the music os not genuine, inventive, not music at all if you consider that most of the themes have been plagiarized to death. In 10 or 20 years nobody will remember Taylor Swift or Rihanna, but bands like Green Day, Offspring, Dream Theatre, etc, will be touted as some of the best from their generation.

Oh dear god. This post is actually embarrassing to read. Beyonce and Kanye? Kanye is one of the best artists of this generation, of that there is absolutely no doubt. He's released six great albums, two of which are as classic as Dookie or American Idiot. Beyonce? Only had the best pop song of the last decade. The first woman to headline Glastonbury. And what a fucking show that was.

The Offspring and Dream Theater won't be remembered, since the average person wouldn't even know who they were. The Offspring's peak was 15 years ago. Dream Theater don't even exist in the consciousness of anyone who doesn't listen to metal.

Back to the actual topic, I don't get how you've been a Green Day fan for 8 years (as long as I have) and not figured out that they make 3 chord songs? Their "musical toolbox" is particularly refined. They couldn't add organs, or krautrock beats, or start playing eastern scales or anything. It just wouldn't work. The type of music they make is based on power chords, of which there are a limited amount, and for the most part it's high tempo. Naturally they'll start playing stuff that sounds similar.

For me the debate to be had here is not "why they do this", it's "what is the quality that makes their music great even though they are fairly limited musicians?"

[The Beatles]

I don't think music can be scaled on how good it is by how easy it is to play on guitar...

[retid]

Green Day will always make great music, weather if its making you dance, sing along, or making you reflect on your life, what makes Green Day awesome, and the lyrics so powerful.. is that we can reflect.. we want to have the time of our life and we're sometimes need by guidance, and Green Day's music is usually our guidance.. and i know the Trilogy will have all that!

[Stefano Bras]

Yes.

[Justin]

Oh dear

god. This post is actually embarrassing to read. Beyonce and Kanye? Kanye is one of the best artists of this generation, of that there is absolutely no doubt. He's released six great albums, two of which are as classic as Dookie or American Idiot. Beyonce? Only had the best pop song of the last decade. The first woman to headline Glastonbury. And what a fucking show that was.

The Offspring and Dream Theater won't be remembered, since the average person wouldn't even know who they were. The Offspring's peak was 15 years ago. Dream Theater don't even exist in the consciousness of anyone who doesn't listen to metal.

Thank you glad its not just me

[Blond-O-Sonic Shimmer Trap]

Haha it's definitely not just us, it's most people with good taste. You don't have to listen to Beyonce much (I certainly don't) to see that she is a legendary artist. And the only criticism of Kanye I can accept is from those who like their hip-hop to be as 90s gangsta as possible. Because I can accept that he's the antithesis of that but at the same time he is doing things with the genre that not many people can, I mean I've heard My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy described as "stadium hip-hop".

[porksoda]

For the non musicans just know that Stay The Night, Carpe Diem, Kill The DJ, American Idiot, Walking Contradiction, Let Yourself Go, 99 Revolutions etc have the same progression of chords (just the tune change) the progression is GDA (no kidding)

First off, those songs don't all have the same progression, and the most common progression among them is A-D-G, not G-D-A. I don't know if anyone has pointed that out or not. So I'm not sure what you're playing.

Secondly, to answer your question: Yes they are. I know a lot of people will argue otherwise, but not me.

I think/know that Green Day is one of the most important bands of all time, and when it's all said and done, they're going to be up there with The Ramones, Metallica, and The Beatles. Now I understand many people don't feel that way, but Green Day is helping keep rock n roll alive in a time of autotune and gimmickry.

They're my favorite band, they've always been my favorite band. They were the second band I ever liked and could recognize. With each album they release, they excite and surprise me (with maybe the exception of 21CB). When other bands would quit, or put out a lackluster record, Green Day reinvent themselves, and for the most part, they've been incredibly successful. The people trashing them now are trashing them because modern radio has drowned them in mediocre GD songs like "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" and "Know Your Enemy" for the past 8 years, and they're tired of hearing it. These are usually the same people who stopped listening to Green Day after Insomniac, and the only way they're going to be happy with a new GD release is if it's Dookie Part 2. To them, Green Day has sold out and phoned it in with the "same 3 chords" for over a decade. They obviously don't understand music (most songs are based on only 3-4 chords) and couldn't bother to be enlightened about it. They think Green Day isn't "punk" anymore because they sell millions of records, but ironically, that's probably what makes Green Day so punk - they keep moving forward despite what everyone says. Billie Joe has said that himself before. They do whatever they want. A good example is the VMA's: Instead of playing their huge new lead single, they blew everyone away with a song that (most) people hadn't heard before, and then let everyone crash the stage. Jason was wearing a "FREE PUSSY RIOT" shirt on TV for Christ's sake. How is that not punk? Most "punk" bands probably don't even know about the Pussy Riot situation. That's another debate though.

I understand what you're asking from a musicianship point of view as well. I know plenty of people, most notably the drummer of my band, who don't think very highly of Green Day due to their seemingly poor musicianship. My drummer is into metal and more classic-type rock, and we cover Green Day and blink songs and he always jokes that those songs are no challenge to learn or play. While he may be right for the most part, he doesn't understand that Green Day is a very technically proficient band and everything each member does/plays compliments everything else perfectly.

Green Day is famous for their vocal harmonies - not an easy thing to pull off - and you can hear their skill in the songs, especially ones like "Let Yourself Go" where there are 2-3 harmonies going at once. I asked the singer of The Frustrators why Mike doesn't sing lead and he said that he's not really a lead singer, but he's killer with backup vocals and harmonies, and it's true. He's a perfect fit. The same goes for Tre and his drumming. Does he play anything too complicated? No, but that's because that isn't what Green Day is about. They're about delivering catchy punk rock. Sure he could bust out drum solos and over complicate songs ala Travis Barker (and I have no doubt that Tre is a much better drummer than he lets on), but it wouldn't fit the band or the songs.

Then there's Billie, whose supposedly been playing the same 3 chords for over 20 years. He's also a much better guitarist then he lets on (even though that's changed recently). He grew up learning and playing heavy metal, and it's more than apparent from the early records, the live performances, and even the new songs that he can play the guitar very well. He can solo like nobodies business. Is he Jimi Hendrix? No. Could he play with Metallica without any trouble? Most likely. But more importantly than that, he knows how to craft a song. His riffs are catchy as hell, and his solos accentuate the songs instead of overshadowing them. People don't give Billie enough credit for his playing. Again, while he's not the greatest player ever, his riffs and songwriting have influenced tons and tons and tons of bands and guitarists, and the riffs for songs like "Brain Stew" and "American Idiot" will be some of the first that millions of kids go to learn on guitar.

Green Day isn't just another band with 3 (now 4+) guys in it. They feed off each other, they work together incredibly well, and they can write really catchy, fun, and relateable music, even if it is sometimes overly simple. Just because Billie Joe isn't Joe Satriani and Tre isn't Neil Peart, doesn't mean they're not competent musicians. They're just different, and a lot of people don't realize that. As someone else said, punk isn't really about the musicianship so much as the energy, the fun, and the message. I think Green Day does all of those things more than well.

So back to the original question. Is Green Day still playing good music? Most definitely. As someone who was nervous of the "new direction" the band was supposedly taking with the upcoming records, I am more than pleased with the current results. They've freshened things up and I'm super excited to hear the Green Day twists they put on the different genres and styles on the upcoming albums. They've shown that they're not out of ideas yet, when any other band would call post-American Idiot a good time to retire.

(Sorry for the lengthy reply, I had a lot to say haha).

PS.

Kanye is beyond terrible. Please don't compare his easily forgettable albums to Dookie and American Idiot.

[Malleus]

I think they are. It's cool if somebody else doesn't, but I do.

[Johnny Higher]

@porksoda :

All you write is what I think from the bottom of my heart and I want to believe in it. I do believe that Green Day is one of biggest band in the world. But I heard so many shit on them (they sucks, bad musicans, always the same songs, blabla that I start to lose my faith and ask question about it.

Like I said I wanted to do this topic since a long time a go and see the post of the people here give me so much hope and fun.

PS: About the "A-D-G, not G-D-A chords" I know is basically the same thing it's just for the non-musicans readers to understand my point

[Hermione]

Many of the comments I see about rap and pop music from Green Day fans are similar to the snobby comments other people make about Green Day's music or punk in general being simple and therefore not as good as other more technically skilled music. It's a bit silly to make ignorant comments about one genre while defending another against similar ignorance.

PS.

Kanye is beyond terrible. Please don't compare his easily forgettable albums to Dookie and American Idiot.

I agreed with everything you said until this comment. I'm curious to know if you've actually listened to any of his albums (which he produces as well as performing on), as they're far from forgettable. They're different from any other rap albums I've heard, he's done things that no other rap artist has done that challenged and changed the entire genre. He's one of the most innovative figures in the history of rap. When The College Dropout came out in 2004 it was a breath of fresh air to rap just like American Idiot was to rock, they were both phenomenons that shook up both their own genres and the wider world of music. Might not be to everyone's taste but forgettable no way.

[Jet Taman]

yes

[GreenFighter]

Green Day still make good music. For me it's about how well they perform live, and they are amazing. Any music they create sounds a whole lot better than anything on the radio, at least in Australia anyway! Their one of the few mainstream artist that I actually enjoy hearing.

[WorryRock02]

Yes. green Day still play good music. They're just doing something more different...but i mean they have never done the same things through the years. They're still amazing as they were in '90.

[Blond-O-Sonic Shimmer Trap]

Many of the comments I see about rap and pop music from Green Day fans are similar to the snobby comments other people make about Green Day's music or punk in general being simple and therefore not as good as other more technically skilled music. It's a bit silly to make ignorant comments about one genre while defending another against similar ignorance.

I agreed with everything you said until this comment. I'm curious to know if you've actually listened to any of his albums (which he produces as well as performing on), as they're far from forgettable. They're different from any other rap albums I've heard, he's done things that no other rap artist has done that challenged and changed the entire genre. He's one of the most innovative figures in the history of rap. When The College Dropout came out in 2004 it was a breath of fresh air to rap just like American Idiot was to rock, they were both phenomenons that shook up both their own genres and the wider world of music. Might not be to everyone's taste but forgettable no way.

I just wanted to add that the first time I listened to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, it reminded me a lot of American Idiot in the way it managed to be completely overblown and ridiculous, yet managed to pull it off. Both albums are the high points of their genre from the last ten years IMO. Both are records that have absolutely blown me away on first listen and completely redefined what I thought those genres could do.

[Joey]

Green Day still play good music because they still play songs from Dookie live.

Bedum-tish.

[tammy_cool]

Didn't Green Day once say that they wanted kids to learn how to play their music which is why they didn't make it too complex? I agree with one of the other comments; Green Day cannot win. They're never going to please everyone. Haters gonna hate.

[porksoda]

I agreed with everything you said until this comment. I'm curious to know if you've actually listened to any of his albums (which he produces as well as performing on), as they're far from forgettable. They're different from any other rap albums I've heard, he's done things that no other rap artist has done that challenged and changed the entire genre. He's one of the most innovative figures in the history of rap. When The College Dropout came out in 2004 it was a breath of fresh air to rap just like American Idiot was to rock, they were both phenomenons that shook up both their own genres and the wider world of music. Might not be to everyone's taste but forgettable no way.

I've heard a lot of his work, and while he may deserve credit as an innovative producer, he's definitely a mediocre rapper and has consistently shamed what hip-hop and rap are about. I don't even consider him a rapper really, he's more of a pop star operating under the guise of a rapper. His lyrics and delivery are basic at best, but again, that's because he's more of a pop star. That's how the rap industry (unfortunately) works these days - it's a business more than anything. It does not make him revolutionary because he sampled Daft Punk in a song, when other rappers had already been doing that for years. In 20 years, Kanye won't be remembered for his albums, he'll be remembered for his guest production work, for his comments about George Bush, for his ego, for his stunt at the VMA's with Taylor Swift, and for dating Kim Kardashian.

And in response to the "breath of fresh air for rap," I think that title more belongs to the Beastie Boys' To The Five Buroughs, which was released that same year. But you can't compare College Dropout, which only sold 3.1 million albums in the US and 4 million albums worldwide, to an album like American Idiot, which sold 6 million albums in the US alone, and 14 million worldwide. College Dropout simply gave Kanye his start, which isn't hard to get in the rap industry, because it's all about who you know. Whereas American Idiot reinvigorated a dying bands career, proved that rock and roll is still alive, made an huge & effective political statement, and helped inform a younger generation and rid them of political apathy. They both may be important albums, and Kanye may have changed rap, but I wouldn't argue that it's for the better. He promotes ignorance, and has led to gimmickry like Lil Wayne and Ninki Minaj.

And just to quickly respond to whoever said that The Offspring and Dream Theater won't be remembered: you're out of your mind. The Offspring put out one of the best-selling albums of the 90's and helped end grunge and bring punk into your living rooms, and Dream Theater is made up of some of the best musicians to ever pick up instruments.

But this has gotten way off topic. The original question was does Green Day still make good music, not anyone else.