melissawebster Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 I see what you are saying totally, and I completely agree that 21CB is far more 'in you face' with regards to religous battles and politics. But, I dunno, I just feel like AI has changed in meaning for me personally, like as in Holiday will always be a political song, but Letterbomb actually means something to me now and then changed again when I heard Whatshername singing it. But yeah I do agree, it's still political, just maybe not as much as it was seen to be when it first came out, y'know? That's the genius behind great music. If it's done right, it means so many things to so many people and evolves over time, like poetry and art. I think the storyline in the Broadway musical has definitely laid a different perspective on people's interpretation of the music. Though I'm aware of the synopsis of the musical, and though I've seen the interviews and discussed the music with other Green Day fans, because I've never actually seen the musical to put the music and lyrics in the context of an actual established story, it's easier for me to still see the politics behind the music, which gets distorted to the point of nonexistence in the play. It happens. Especially in the entertainment industry, where people are so focused on being PC and avoiding controversy and appealing to mass audiences. Green Day earned a lot of respect for their bravery in creating this album and especially calling it American Idiot, but would have risked offending mainstream America if they weren't careful about not focusing too much on the politics of the music in the Broadway musical storyline. It was just easier and safer to make it about a handful of fucked up young people and their own demons and flaws, because it was something people could empathize with, without having to put it into the context of their own lives and experiences, or question their own personal belief systems up to that point. I really hate when that happens. It's like reading a great book, and then watching the film interpretation of it completely butcher the core essence of it. You walk away from the experience disappointed and empty and wishing they'd done more. I've always thought this, it was hyped up as such a politically orientated album when really I've never considered it to be that politically charged as a whole, apart from the obvious songs. I agree that in the context of the time it was released it was received far more politically than it perhaps would have been if it were to be released now. Yeah, timing definitely played a major role, especially when you consider the censorship that was going on at the time and the way celebrities, and especially musicians, were being intimidated and ostracized for criticizing the Bush Administration in any way. That Green Day just said "Fuck you. We're doing it anyway." was huge. Of course, their music and fanbase played a major role in giving them that freedom. It was career suicide for someone like the Dixie Chicks to do something like that, because of who their fanbase was. Though when I saw the documentary "Shut up and Sing" (I think that's the name of it) about what happened to them, they got the last laugh in the end and more or less made radio coverage irrelevant to a band's success and music sales.
VisionsofGreenDay115 Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Yeah, timing definitely played a major role, especially when you consider the censorship that was going on at the time and the way celebrities, and especially musicians, were being intimidated and ostracized for criticizing the Bush Administration in any way. That Green Day just said "Fuck you. We're doing it anyway." was huge. Of course, their music and fanbase played a major role in giving them that freedom. It was career suicide for someone like the Dixie Chicks to do something like that, because of who their fanbase was. Though when I saw the documentary "Shut up and Sing" (I think that's the name of it) about what happened to them, they got the last laugh in the end and more or less made radio coverage irrelevant to a band's success and music sales. I think thats one of the best parts about Green Day in general. People complained and got tired of them after American Idiot was released because they thought Green Day had totally changed from the punk base they were in the 90's. Then when 21CBD was released, everyone seemed to hate Green Day because they just werent the same. But in retrospect, they were still punk. They wrote what THEY wanted to write, and they didnt (and still dont) give a fuck what people think about their music. Obviously they would be a little upset if they released their next album and no one bought it, but thats the thing, they created music that they thought was their BEST work. Like i said in my earlier post, almost all the songs in American Idiot have a political relation in some way, i think that was one of the things Billie was shooting for, thats the whole point of American Idiot. They use lyrics like "underbelly" and "as your city's motto gets pulverized, 'whats in love is now in debt." (Letterbomb) So they definately kept to making it all political, but in some songs, its more abstract and harder to recognize in each song.
greendaytodeathandback Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 That's the genius behind great music. If it's done right, it means so many things to so many people and evolves over time, like poetry and art. I think the storyline in the Broadway musical has definitely laid a different perspective on people's interpretation of the music. Though I'm aware of the synopsis of the musical, and though I've seen the interviews and discussed the music with other Green Day fans, because I've never actually seen the musical to put the music and lyrics in the context of an actual established story, it's easier for me to still see the politics behind the music, which gets distorted to the point of nonexistence in the play. It happens. Especially in the entertainment industry, where people are so focused on being PC and avoiding controversy and appealing to mass audiences. Green Day earned a lot of respect for their bravery in creating this album and especially calling it American Idiot, but would have risked offending mainstream America if they weren't careful about not focusing too much on the politics of the music in the Broadway musical storyline. It was just easier and safer to make it about a handful of fucked up young people and their own demons and flaws, because it was something people could empathize with, without having to put it into the context of their own lives and experiences, or question their own personal belief systems up to that point. I really hate when that happens. It's like reading a great book, and then watching the film interpretation of it completely butcher the core essence of it. You walk away from the experience disappointed and empty and wishing they'd done more. Oh yeah, I do agree, I find the meaning behind the songs that the guys wanted us to get much easier than I do the musical AI part.
melissawebster Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Yeah, the message definitely gets lost in the musical. But with musicals, and especially movies, there's only so much time to do it in and you always have to be conscious of not coming across as too "preachy," and turning the audience off of it. It's a fine line, but can be done in a way that one aspect isn't the focus at the expense of the other. I really hope that's what they do with the movie, because it is such an important message. With the music as just an album, they have the freedom to do whatever the fuck they want and to preach it however they want to get people to think and to have a serious impact in changing perspectives. That's really why the album won so much critical acclaim. It says what so many couldn't or wouldn't. And 21st Century Breakdown does it even more so.
StuckWithRob Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 By the way you can't discount 'Warning' as a political album. Songs like 'Warning', 'Minority' and 'Macy's Day Parade' have clear political influences behind their lyrics. Perhaps it would have been good to include these songs on the AI musical too as they are quite similar in themes (especially 'Minority', which fits perfectly on 'Bullet in a Bible') instead of just the more popular songs from 21CB. 'I wanna be the minority' etc. is basically what Jesus of Suburbia believes in 'a free for all, fuck them all' is similar to 'And I walked this line, A million and one fucking times, But not this time', and 'Stepped out of the line, Like a sheep runs from the herd' embodies the spirit of leaving home to become what you want, not toeing the line: 'To live and not to breathe, Is to die In tragedy' . Compared to 'American Idiot', 'Warning' isn't as political as a whole but certainly some of the songs have the undertones of the later AI and 21CB songs.
melissawebster Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Yes. I agree. Also "Fashion Victim" "Castaway" "Misery" "Hold On" and especially "Deadbeat Holiday." The theme of the entire album is about America's spend and debt values and the political climate and attitudes of society at that time. I see "Macy's Day Parade" as the summation of that theme and the hope that it will all get better as we break away from it, and that entire album as a mockery of it all and how it will blow up in our faces, which of course it did just a few years later. Really, the whole thing was very prophetic and led perfectly into the more obvious political tone of American Idiot, which led to the even more political tone of 21st Century Breakdown. To me, "Minority," "Hold On" and "Jackass" are Green Day's decision to opt out and not fall victim to it.
MrsBillieJoe95 Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 I would say in a way yes, but I don't think it was fully meant to be. American Idiot the song was obviously meant to be political. I would even go as far as to say that Holiday was more than likely meant to be taken as political. The album as a whole, though, I would say is more about political correctness than actually being political. If you ask Billie, I think he would say it's meant to be just following the life of a teen who's lost in a drug filled world (as others have said)
Mar Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Definitely not that political. As so many have already said, it's a very personal journey. It's just that the events of Jesus are, understandably, affected by the world around him, which is the way it is for all of us. I say this all the time to people who make the "old Green Day was better, now they're too political" argument. Putting 21CB aside, I try to explain that AI isn't really all that different from Dookie - it's about dealing with life in different ways, different situations.
StuckWithRob Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Yes. I agree. Also "Fashion Victim" "Castaway" "Misery" "Hold On" and especially "Deadbeat Holiday." The theme of the entire album is about America's spend and debt values and the political climate and attitudes of society at that time. I see "Macy's Day Parade" as the summation of that theme and the hope that it will all get better as we break away from it, and that entire album as a mockery of it all and how it will blow up in our faces, which of course it did just a few years later. Really, the whole thing was very prophetic and led perfectly into the more obvious political tone of American Idiot, which led to the even more political tone of 21st Century Breakdown. To me, "Minority," "Hold On" and "Jackass" are Green Day's decision to opt out and not fall victim to it. Yes I agree. Do you think songs from 'Warning' should be included in the film/musical of American Idiot?
melissawebster Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Yes I agree. Do you think songs from 'Warning' should be included in the film/musical of American Idiot? Wow. Great question. On one level, I say yes. They're as relevant to American Idiot, and in some ways even more so, as the songs from 21st Century Breakdown. On another level, I say no because I'm biased and have a personal interest invested in it. I want a trilogy of three separate film musicals that show the escalation and evolution of the music and the political climate with each separate album, where my script Slappy Hours contains the music from the 90's and the transition into the 21st century with the music from Warning. American Idiot would be strictly the music from the American Idiot album, and then the conclusion would occur in the third movie with the music from 21st Century Breakdown, where it's all blown up and destroyed and we can start over. Okay, that third one is really dark humor and may not be realistic, but it's a fun thought.
Elena Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 as many people already said, AI isn't that political...i've heard somewhere that Holiday is the most political song they've ever written by then, cos it's against some politicians and American Idiot is also a political song, but the rest of the album isn't very political, it's more the story of the Jesus Of Suburbia and St Jimmy...and maybe even Billie's life...you can interpretate sth political into EVERY song, e.g. Wake Me Up When September Ends: some people think it's about 9/11, though it's aboutb the death of Billie's father...even green day themselves said that you can interpretate something political into every song....and i totally agree: 21st Century Breakdown is WAY more political...and also Warning...
Rancid punk:LTD Posted January 29, 2012 Author Posted January 29, 2012 I've always considered Warning to be the most political album, because it's about being yourself and to always ask questions.
SLAPPYplatypus Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 i dont really think American Idiot is that much of a political album either. i mean, yeah, there are American Idiot and Holiday, but that really is it. actually, i think that 21st Century Breakdown is kind of more political than American Idiot, or critical towards the church and the crisis anyway. i dont really know how to put it. alrite, i think that 21cb kind of criticized Bush more than what AI did. you know, AI basically just tells him hes an asshole, and we all knew that. but 21cb describes every bad thing he did as two kind of ordinary guys (meaning they are not popstars or whatever) see it.
That Dude Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Definitely more personal than political. After all, St. Jimmy AND whatshername admit that they are, in fact, the american idiot. the politics are as folllows: Holiday has its politics (Billie Joe has even stated it has a jab at democrats).....She's a rebel is sort of about the statue of liberty, thought not literally. Letterbomb talks about how Jimmy was supposed to go against the bishop but didn't....the wake me up video had the war theme....Homecoming mentions someone coming back home but doesn't really say from where..... the whole album is reallly a coming of age story.
melissawebster Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Interesting take. I hadn't thought of it as a coming of age story before, but you're right. It definitely has elements of coming of age in the midst of the political chaos around him, or rather of him growing up and facing the reality around him. I don't see where St. Jimmy and Whatsername admit to being the American Idiot. I've always seen them as the voices of reason, the symbols of rage and love. "Homecoming" is about the death of St. Jimmy and Johnny finally "coming home" to reality, or growing up if you will, but at the same time mourning the loss of the delusion.
frunsi Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 i'd say the meaning of the songs and also the album as a whole isn't that obvious. you can interpret political messages and references into every song. there are the obvious references in american idiot and holiday, but you can also see some political thoughts in jesus of suburbia. there might be some subliminal messages in give me novacaine, st. jimmy, homecoming... it depends mostly on the listener. i agree that the lyrics are very personal, but as i said, you can listen to the songs from different points of view.
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