Cigarettes and Valentines

[WhiteTim]

10 hours ago, Jon Benjamin said:

No, also Too Much Too Soon. Billie said himself it was from the sessions.

which means they do have the masters as Mike said they had rough mixes but wasn't useable Too Much Too Soon is clearly useable 

 

my main gripe with this mystery is that now every unreleased song seems to be alluded to C&V by some people 

[Maddie86]

who was the recording engineer for Cigarettes and Valentines? has that been mentioned anywhere? Obviously the producer was Rob Cavallo, but I don't remember hearing who the engineer was, this was kind of a transitional time. It was being recorded at Studio 880, which is where Warning was recorded with Ken Allardyace engineering, but then American Idiot was recorded in LA  at Ocean Way and Capitol Records with Doug McKean engineering. In between those was The Network recording which was done by Chris Dugan, which I think was also at 880. Was Dugan recording C&V too?

[Todd]

14 minutes ago, Kyle Serlington said:

who was the recording engineer for Cigarettes and Valentines? has that been mentioned anywhere? Obviously the producer was Rob Cavallo, but I don't remember hearing who the engineer was, this was kind of a transitional time. It was being recorded at Studio 880, which is where Warning was recorded with Ken Allardyace engineering, but then American Idiot was recorded in LA  at Ocean Way and Capitol Records with Doug McKean engineering. In between those was The Network recording which was done by Chris Dugan, which I think was also at 880. Was Dugan recording C&V too?

Too Much Too Soon was produced by Green Day and engineered by Reto Peter, and mixed by Tim James for Rock Mafia, whatever that means. Shoplifter was engineered by Chris Dugan and Reto Peter, and mixed by Tim James for Rock Mafia, and Governator was engineered by Chris Dugan assisted by Reto Peter, mixed by Chris Dugan. 

Favorite Son was Rob Cavallo and Doug McKean, which puts it in line with the other American Idiot tracks. Favorite Son came out before American Idiot on the Rock Against Bush compilation in August of 2004, and Green Day was announced to be on that comp in or before March of 2004.

So based off of Too Much Too soon being from Cigarettes and Valentines, can we assume that Shoplifter and Governator were Cigarettes and Valentines tracks as well due to having similar staff? If we assume Green Day had Favorite Son picked out to submit to the album in March 2004 and recorded it shortly after, then everything after that had Rob Cavallo. So the other b-sides must have been recorded before March of 2004

[Second favourite son]

58 minutes ago, WhiteTim said:

which means they do have the masters as Mike said they had rough mixes but wasn't useable Too Much Too Soon is clearly useable 

What if it was just re-recorded?  

[Maddie86]

10 minutes ago, Todd said:

Too Much Too Soon was produced by Green Day and engineered by Reto Peter, and mixed by Tim James for Rock Mafia, whatever that means. Shoplifter was engineered by Chris Dugan and Reto Peter, and mixed by Tim James for Rock Mafia, and Governator was engineered by Chris Dugan assisted by Reto Peter, mixed by Chris Dugan. 

Favorite Son was Rob Cavallo and Doug McKean, which puts it in line with the other American Idiot tracks. Favorite Son came out before American Idiot on the Rock Against Bush compilation in August of 2004, and Green Day was announced to be on that comp in or before March of 2004.

So based off of Too Much Too soon being from Cigarettes and Valentines, can we assume that Shoplifter and Governator were Cigarettes and Valentines tracks as well due to having similar staff? If we assume Green Day had Favorite Son picked out to submit to the album in March 2004 and recorded it shortly after, then everything after that had Rob Cavallo. So the other b-sides must have been recorded before March of 2004

thanks, there's some great info here! I gotta admit, I didn't keep up with collecting the singles and bsides in the AI era. I forgot to mention that Retro Peter was also credited on the Network album

[WhiteTim]

14 minutes ago, Second favourite son said:

What if it was just re-recorded?  

Could be but I was going by "from the sessions" part

[Jon Benjamin]

On 12/4/2016 at 8:27 PM, WhiteTim said:

Could be but I was going by "from the sessions" part

Also the pre-AI Billie voice. I can hear the pre ai sound in Lights Out and Hearts Collide as well which puts them on the very strong possibility list. 

[greenday4924]

12 hours ago, Jon Benjamin said:

Also the pre-AI Billie voice. I can hear the pre ai sound in Lights Out and Hearts Collide as well which puts them on the very strong possibility list. 

I always thought this too. It sounds like his older voice, and nothing like 21CB.

If I recall, it sounds like warning-AI era vocals with added distortion.

[Jon Benjamin]

On 12/11/2016 at 6:06 AM, greenday4924 said:

I always thought this too. It sounds like his older voice, and nothing like 21CB.

If I recall, it sounds like warning-AI era vocals with added distortion.

Yep, which is essentially what we know to be the "Cigarettes and Valentines era sound". 

[Dakke]

Do we actually know what the artwork for Cigarettes & Valentines looked like in any way? I was googling images and I got these:

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

1 hour ago, Dakke said:

Do we actually know what the artwork for Cigarettes & Valentines looked like in any way? I was googling images and I got these:

Fanart that's ripped off from the American Idiot artwork? Yeah, believable. 

 

There's absolutely no reason to believe that there ever was artwork. Years ago Green Day claimed that there were only a hand of people who ever even heard the songs from the album before it "disappeared" and now they seem to be admitting what most of us knew, that they more or less put it in a vault or shelved it. The decision to shelve it and start something new (American Idiot) probably happened long before the final processes of artwork and planning marketing because by that stage they probably would have pushed forward with the album regardless... You know like they did with the trilogy

[Todd]

They didn't have any art for the album, they weren't that far in the process. 

[Dakke]

4 minutes ago, Todd said:

They didn't have any art for the album, they weren't that far in the process. 

You're right. I was assuming they had some concepts laying about which we might have known something about, but clearly I'm wrong.

[Maddie86]

in one of my GD books there's an interview with Chris Bilheimer and he said they discussed art for it, I don't remember all the details but he said that the band wanted to do an album cover with a band photo like they did for Warning

[Insomniac186]

Tim James,who mixeed Too Much Too Soon and Shoplifter must have been involved in doing some pre-production work with the band. Rock Mafia is a rock songwriting and production team. Warner Bros. might have brought him in to help with songwriting or pre-production to help ensure the band would have a hit song on the next record. For those that remember, Green Day was considered to be washed-up around this time. Just a theory. Another theory is that the AI outtakes that aren't produced by Cavallo might just be demos for C&V that they recorded at Jingletown, and were given a good mix so they could be released as b-sides.

[Todd]

1 hour ago, Insomniac186 said:

Tim James,who mixeed Too Much Too Soon and Shoplifter must have been involved in doing some pre-production work with the band. Rock Mafia is a rock songwriting and production team. Warner Bros. might have brought him in to help with songwriting or pre-production to help ensure the band would have a hit song on the next record. For those that remember, Green Day was considered to be washed-up around this time. Just a theory. Another theory is that the AI outtakes that aren't produced by Cavallo might just be demos for C&V that they recorded at Jingletown, and were given a good mix so they could be released as b-sides.

Any chance the AI b-sides were recorded AFTER American Idiot, the same way the Warning b-sides were recorded afterwards? Maybe they were C&V songs, but re-recorded?

[Platypus357]

According to Wikipedia, we know of 7 out of 20 songs that would have been on the album.

[tresexy101]

1 hour ago, Platypus357 said:

According to Wikipedia, we know of 7 out of 20 songs that would have been on the album.

You all keep forgetting the song that I wrote and Billie Joe sang for us called 'Foiled Can'.  You're welcome.  Skull and Bones, not Cigarettes and Valentines is the official album name now.  It's an Illuminati thing so don't ask.  Peace and Love.

[WhiteTim]

I see Olivia is listed whats the proof of this?

[Todd]

16 minutes ago, WhiteTim said:

I see Olivia is listed whats the proof of this?

None, that's the most made up shit ever  

[tresexy101]

5 minutes ago, WhiteTim said:

I see Olivia is listed whats the proof of this?

The proof is in the DNA.  We all know you are white, but nobody gives a shit.  Change your name and your whining to the mods.  In the chant from B.J.A.  "No Trump, No KKK, No fascist USA!"  Fuck the bible belt.  There is no god.  In the words of B.J.A. on the Bill Maher show, or whatever the fuck his name is, "Religion is bullshit".  But to stay on topic so I don't get banned again, I looked for the proof of Olivia on the list and can't find any.  So I agree with you WhiteTim. 

[Sarcasm]

19 minutes ago, tresexy101 said:

The proof is in the DNA.  We all know you are white, but nobody gives a shit.  Change your name and your whining to the mods.  In the chant from B.J.A.  "No Trump, No KKK, No fascist USA!"  Fuck the bible belt.  There is no god.  In the words of B.J.A. on the Bill Maher show, or whatever the fuck his name is, "Religion is bullshit".  But to stay on topic so I don't get banned again, I looked for the proof of Olivia on the list and can't find any.  So I agree with you WhiteTim. 

you gotta calm down to an absurd degree 

[WhiteTim]

16 minutes ago, tresexy101 said:

The proof is in the DNA.  We all know you are white, but nobody gives a shit.  Change your name and your whining to the mods.  In the chant from B.J.A.  "No Trump, No KKK, No fascist USA!"  Fuck the bible belt.  There is no god.  In the words of B.J.A. on the Bill Maher show, or whatever the fuck his name is, "Religion is bullshit".  But to stay on topic so I don't get banned again, I looked for the proof of Olivia on the list and can't find any.  So I agree with you WhiteTim. 

I'm only half white lol and my nickname comes from an artist I used to work for until he passed so for tribute I use the nickname  

[Insomniac186]

22 hours ago, Todd said:

Any chance the AI b-sides were recorded AFTER American Idiot, the same way the Warning b-sides were recorded afterwards? Maybe they were C&V songs, but re-recorded?

I honestly believe they are from 2002-2003 since Green Day was in the studio recording tons of stuff at that time, and we got the Network album out of it. The same people that are credited with the AI b-sides are also credited with the Network album. Many of the AI b-sides could easily fit on the Network album. Even Lights Out fits in with the Network album.

By the way, anyone notice Hearts Collide mentions valentines?  A bit of a coincidence. One of the reasons I believe the two non-cover 21CBD b-sides are from the same sessions as the AI ones.

I still believe that whole batch of songs are demos of potential C&V songs and given a good mix so they could be released as b-sides since at the time the supposed C&V masters were missing. If Too Much Too Soon was supposed to be on C&V why no credit for Rob Cavallo? It's all the in-house guys from Jingletown that are in the credits. That's why I believe they are C&V demos, or at least songs that were in consideration for the album.

[Todd]

1 hour ago, Insomniac186 said:

I honestly believe they are from 2002-2003 since Green Day was in the studio recording tons of stuff at that time, and we got the Network album out of it. The same people that are credited with the AI b-sides are also credited with the Network album. Many of the AI b-sides could easily fit on the Network album. Even Lights Out fits in with the Network album.

By the way, anyone notice Hearts Collide mentions valentines?  A bit of a coincidence. One of the reasons I believe the two non-cover 21CBD b-sides are from the same sessions as the AI ones.

I still believe that whole batch of songs are demos of potential C&V songs and given a good mix so they could be released as b-sides since at the time the supposed C&V masters were missing. If Too Much Too Soon was supposed to be on C&V why no credit for Rob Cavallo? It's all the in-house guys from Jingletown that are in the credits. That's why I believe they are C&V demos, or at least songs that were in consideration for the album.

I think this is the best theory I've heard!