Cigarettes and Valentines

[Christian's Inferno!]

6 hours ago, Castaway2000 said:

Hi, I'm researching on the cancelled album Cigarettes & Valentines, and it has been plagued with rumors badly. I don't even know what is and what isn't fact about the album any longer. Would others be willing to clarify information on the album for me? Here are a few questions that are confusing me:

1. How do we know that the album existed in 2005 (when its Wikipedia article was created)?

2. I hear that Mike Dirnt gave the most information about this album. Where did he give the information on it?

3. How do we know that Olivia and Too Much, Too Soon were part of Cigarettes & Valentines; where has this been confirmed?

4. Some people say more songs than Walk Away were recorded for the 2012 trilogy (personally I think Angel Blue would fit well with C&V but there's no confirmation). How do we know if this is true?

And perhaps the biggest question is:

5. How did the story of the stolen C&V tracks start, or that the band were unsatisfied with the album? I can't find a source for this as well.

and on a related note, some sources say that Billie called the theft a "blessing in disguise" or Rob Cavallio claiming that the tracks were mediocre. Where's the source?

Also, I find it nonsense when people say that the album became Money Money 2020--I believe The Network was a joke between Green Day & some friends and not a reworked Cigarettes & Valentines.

It would be awesome if you guys could help provide information on C&V with sources.

I don't have the answers to most of these questions cause I haven't done much research on the album, myself but I believe that some of the songs from Money Money 2020 could have been for C&V, but the songs would have sounded different and more green day

[desertrose]

Green Day reveal the fate of ‘lost’ pre-‘American Idiot’ album ‘Cigarettes And Valentines’
 

http://www.nme.com/news/music/green-day-cigarettes-and-valentines-lost-album-interview-listen-1862365

[That Dude]

Young Blood is from C + G   

WHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?

[Jon Benjamin]

4 hours ago, Too Dumb to Die(s) said:

Young Blood is from C + G   

WHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?

No they were saying it was an older one, Billie recently said it was written on the 21st tour

[onionbubs]

Article said the lyrics were changed

 

they couldn't have been worse than the ones we actually got

[End Of The World]

Maybe most of you have already noticed that, but just today I listened to some GD B-sides. I paid attention to the mixing and the production of the songs and some of them could be grouped because are very similar in these terms.

- Lights Out

- Too Much Too Soon

- Hearts Collide

- Shoplifter

These are already known to be on C&V, but at least it's another step to rebuild this great lost album.

[Christian's Inferno!]

1 minute ago, End Of The World said:

Maybe most of you have already noticed that, but just today I listened to some GD B-sides. I paid attention to the mixing and the production of the songs and some of them could be grouped because are very similar in these terms.

- Lights Out

- Too Much Too Soon

- Hearts Collide

- Shoplifter

These are already known to be on C&V, but at least it's another step to rebuild this great lost album.

I'm pretty sure the only song we're sure was on C&V was the title track. These songs likely were on the album, but from what we've heard from GD, only C&V is the only known song on the album

[End Of The World]

Just now, MysticManiac said:

I'm pretty sure the only song we're sure was on C&V was the title track. These songs likely were on the album, but from what we've heard from GD, only C&V is the only known song on the album

Yes. The ONLY CERTAIN is C&V. But the mixing of that songs is between the particular sound of Warning and the power of American Idiot. This makes me think about those as songs on C&V.

[bouncingoffthewallbja]

6 minutes ago, End Of The World said:

Maybe most of you have already noticed that, but just today I listened to some GD B-sides. I paid attention to the mixing and the production of the songs and some of them could be grouped because are very similar in these terms.

- Lights Out

- Too Much Too Soon

- Hearts Collide

- Shoplifter

These are already known to be on C&V, but at least it's another step to rebuild this great lost album.

I've really started to properly listen to the B-sides over the past couple of weeks and I really enjoy it whenever they come on my 150 song+ GD playlist 

3 minutes ago, End Of The World said:

Yes. The ONLY CERTAIN is C&V. But the mixing of that songs is between the particular sound of Warning and the power of American Idiot. This makes me think about those as songs on C&V.

I definitely understand what you're saying here! For me, songs like Too Much Too Soon give me an American Idiot vibe, while things like Shoplifter and Hearts Collide give me Warning, or dare I say it, Nimrod vibes 

I absolutely LOVE the AaF recording of Cigarettes and Valentines! It definitely gets turned up every time it makes its way onto my shuffled playlist! 

[End Of The World]

2 minutes ago, bouncingoffthewallbja said:

I've really started to properly listen to the B-sides over the past couple of weeks and I really enjoy it whenever they come on my 150 song+ GD playlist 

GD B-sides are great, especially if you wonder how they could have been singles on a possible album. I really don't know but on the discography page of Wiki, it says that Shoplifter is a single.

[Fuzz]

2 hours ago, MysticManiac said:

I'm pretty sure the only song we're sure was on C&V was the title track. These songs likely were on the album, but from what we've heard from GD, only C&V is the only known song on the album

I don't think so. I think fans hear something that doesn't quite fit in with an album because it wasn't included then they can assume it fits into some other style. If Lights Out was on 21CB people would think it fit there. I've heard so many theories about C&V that the only thing I know for sure people base their opinions on anything that seems remotely plausible, even though it's rarely correct. 

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

13 hours ago, End Of The World said:

Maybe most of you have already noticed that, but just today I listened to some GD B-sides. I paid attention to the mixing and the production of the songs and some of them could be grouped because are very similar in these terms.

- Lights Out

- Too Much Too Soon

- Hearts Collide

- Shoplifter

These are already known to be on C&V, but at least it's another step to rebuild this great lost album.

If it actually were the case that these were on C&V then it's not a "great lost album" by any stretch of the imagination and they actually did us a favour by shelving it. At least back then they had quality control. A good question might be why are really shit songs with horrendous lyrics that were scrapped years ago making albums now. 

[BilIie Joe Armstrong]

On 21. 11. 2016 at 4:36 AM, Jon Benjamin said:

No they were saying it was an older one, Billie recently said it was written on the 21st tour

That makes it one of the earliest Trilogy songs in fact. What it has in common with those albums are weak lyrics and possibly the theme. (YB is a less sappy take on Sweet 16 basically and both must have been written around the same time), provided the lyrics weren't changed completely. 

[Christian's Inferno!]

12 hours ago, Andres said:

I don't think so. I think fans hear something that doesn't quite fit in with an album because it wasn't included then they can assume it fits into some other style. If Lights Out was on 21CB people would think it fit there. I've heard so many theories about C&V that the only thing I know for sure people base their opinions on anything that seems remotely plausible, even though it's rarely correct. 

You're right. It's probably unlikely that those songs are on the record

I think that there must be a few songs that have been released since then that would've been on C&V. I know they said that it wasn't GD at it's best and that they always look towards the future, but if they were considering releasing it as a studio album, then there must have been at least a few songs worth keeping to put on another album.

Maybe the reason they didn't release C&V was because it didn't see the band grow. Like, every album since Dookie saw them grow or change e.g Insomniac was angrier than Dookie, Nimrod was more experimental, Warning was a bit more mature. And I think maybe GD looked at that album and thought "This album doesn't make it look like we've grown since Warning"

[End Of The World]

2 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

If it actually were the case that these were on C&V then it's not a "great lost album" by any stretch of the imagination and they actually did us a favour by shelving it. At least back then they had quality control. A good question might be why are really shit songs with horrendous lyrics that were scrapped years ago making albums now. 

I hope it's not a problem for you if I like those song. The "great lost album" IMO exists. This is because I feel like most of the songs in C&V have been included in AI. I don't believe GD started another work from zero. So, if we combine some of AI with those songs, the not so good YoungBlood and Angel Blue, we'd get an idea. I doubt you agree, but that's my point of view.

[Christian's Inferno!]

9 minutes ago, End Of The World said:

I hope it's not a problem for you if I like those song. The "great lost album" IMO exists. This is because I feel like most of the songs in C&V have been included in AI. I don't believe GD started another work from zero. So, if we combine some of AI with those songs, the not so good YoungBlood and Angel Blue, we'd get an idea. I doubt you agree, but that's my point of view.

I can believe that a couple of the songs from AI could have been in AI. But most of them wouldn't because they follow a story. American Idiot, JOS, Are We The Waiting, Homecoming, Letterbomb, Whatsername and St. Jimmy are almost definitely songs that were written just for AI and I'd say most of the other ones were written just for AI too. There might have been a couple songs where they thought "Hey, this song we wrote for C&V could actually work really well in the story of AI".

Also, Billie never said that Youngblood was written for C&V, he just said it was written a long time ago. And Angel Blue, I don't see any reason to believe that was from C&V, idk why people think that.

[Todd]

16 hours ago, bouncingoffthewallbja said:

I've really started to properly listen to the B-sides over the past couple of weeks and I really enjoy it whenever they come on my 150 song+ GD playlist 

 

Mine's 247 songs, all studio (except C&V) including the Network and FBHT. Sounds like you're still missing things!

24 minutes ago, MysticManiac said:

I can believe that a couple of the songs from AI could have been in AI. But most of them wouldn't because they follow a story. American Idiot, JOS, Are We The Waiting, Homecoming, Letterbomb, Whatsername and St. Jimmy are almost definitely songs that were written just for AI and I'd say most of the other ones were written just for AI too. There might have been a couple songs where they thought "Hey, this song we wrote for C&V could actually work really well in the story of AI".

Also, Billie never said that Youngblood was written for C&V, he just said it was written a long time ago. And Angel Blue, I don't see any reason to believe that was from C&V, idk why people think that.

Letterbomb wasn't written for AI though. It was originally called "Clusterbomb" and was on an early tracklist for Warning. It was also supposed to be on C&V. Even after American Idiot was all tracked out it was still called Clusterbomb, as seen on an early American Idiot tracklist where everything was in order and had their final titles except for that. 

[Christian's Inferno!]

6 minutes ago, Todd said:

Mine's 247 songs, all studio (except C&V) including the Network and FBHT. Sounds like you're still missing things!

Letterbomb wasn't written for AI though. It was originally called "Clusterbomb" and was on an early tracklist for Warning. It was also supposed to be on C&V. Even after American Idiot was all tracked out it was still called Clusterbomb, as seen on an early American Idiot tracklist where everything was in order and had their final titles except for that. 

Oh yeah I forgot about Clusterbomb. It was probably quite different than the final version

[End Of The World]

15 minutes ago, Todd said:

Mine's 247 songs, all studio (except C&V) including the Network and FBHT. Sounds like you're still missing things!

Have you included Bullet in a Bible and Awesome as Fuck?

[Jon Benjamin]

16 hours ago, End Of The World said:

Yes. The ONLY CERTAIN is C&V. But the mixing of that songs is between the particular sound of Warning and the power of American Idiot. This makes me think about those as songs on C&V.

No, also Too Much Too Soon. Billie said himself it was from the sessions.

[Christian's Inferno!]

2 minutes ago, Jon Benjamin said:

No, also Too Much Too Soon. Billie said himself it was from the sessions.

Source?

[Todd]

4 hours ago, End Of The World said:

Have you included Bullet in a Bible and Awesome as Fuck?

Nope

4 hours ago, MysticManiac said:

Source?

Billie confirmed that Too Much Too Soon was from the Cigarettes and Valentines sessions in a 2010 interview about the musical

http://www.greendayauthority.com/news/338/

[Christian's Inferno!]

5 minutes ago, Todd said:

Nope

Billie confirmed that Too Much Too Soon was from the Cigarettes and Valentines sessions in a 2010 interview about the musical

http://www.greendayauthority.com/news/338/

Alright well I can't listen to the interview right now but I'm gonna trust you

[Todd]

10 minutes ago, MysticManiac said:

Alright well I can't listen to the interview right now but I'm gonna trust you

I can't listen to it either, the link is dead. But apparently that's the one! 

[bouncingoffthewallbja]

8 hours ago, Todd said:

Mine's 247 songs, all studio (except C&V) including the Network and FBHT. Sounds like you're still missing things!

Yep! I don't have any of The Network's or FBHT songs in my playlist which explains it! I also need to add a couple more from 1039SOSH because every single video I find is EXTREMELY quiet!!  And stuff like Chump/Longview and Holiday/BOBD are counted as one song in my playlist so it'll really have a couple more!