Question about Gloria..

[lookoutrebelgirl]

As much as the lyrics prove that she's a radical leader, I still just feel like she's this broken girl. It was my initial image & it still sort of is. She leads revolution, but on an emotional level, she's still a wreck.

Make sense a bit?

i agree with this whole heartedly

[Jack96]

He definately says OF the booklet is wrong in a few places just like in american eulogy they say as its written but the fucking lies bit is missing

[Dylan.]

Gloria is a symbol of somebody who used to be religious and then through the process of human sins was pushed out of religion by members of the Church who don't want her there because of her sins. She saw the hypocrisy of religion and that is what was the breaking point. As for her sins, I don't believe she was actually in any trouble before "East Jesus Nowhere". She was "the saint of all the sinners" because she had a political agenda and was a rebel that would protest and maybe her political ideals didn't perfectly coincide with the churches ideals causing them to outcast her and it brought her down so much but at the same time opened her eyes to the hypocrisy of it all. She turned away and started doing bad things like doing drugs and such. The reason Christian was angry was because he didn't feel connected to her anymore because all she cared about was the drugs. Christian wasn't necessarily a bad person. We don't know that he did any drugs, but he gets off on becoming enraged at the social problems in the world. With a personal problem like his girlfriend, he did the same thing.

[.Militza.]

I do love how on the 21CB is more of a love story, with the political parts.

[Brian]

I do love how on the 21CB is more of a love story, with the political parts.

Indeed.

[emmaILGD!]

Gloria is a symbol of somebody who used to be religious and then through the process of human sins was pushed out of religion by members of the Church who don't want her there because of her sins. She saw the hypocrisy of religion and that is what was the breaking point. As for her sins, I don't believe she was actually in any trouble before "East Jesus Nowhere". She was "the saint of all the sinners" because she had a political agenda and was a rebel that would protest and maybe her political ideals didn't perfectly coincide with the churches ideals causing them to outcast her and it brought her down so much but at the same time opened her eyes to the hypocrisy of it all. She turned away and started doing bad things like doing drugs and such. The reason Christian was angry was because he didn't feel connected to her anymore because all she cared about was the drugs. Christian wasn't necessarily a bad person. We don't know that he did any drugs, but he gets off on becoming enraged at the social problems in the world. With a personal problem like his girlfriend, he did the same thing.

I agree with this.

Gloria's just the one who holds the torch, she's trying to make sense of all the chaos that's happening around her.

[.Militza.]

But then again she fails at it, and she starts using drugs.

I believe that's the time when the real story of the album is coming clean.

[Vanilla Shake]

Ok I'll give it a try, but i usually suck at this.

Before this song is RHS...and in that song we are finding out that Gloria has an addiction problem.

''It's like an ulcer bleeding in my brain

Send me to the pharmacy

So I can lose my memory

I'm elated

Medicated

Lord knows I tried to find a way to run away..."

And for Christian Gloria was something he loves. And he had a different picture in his mind about her, as righteous, rebelious, but for a good cause, the one who holds the torch...

And finding out that she has drug addiction, and that she couldn't resist drugs throws all his beliefs in the water...And he gets mad.

And knowing Christian as the self-destructive one, the song is about his rage for her.

"I'm not fucking around" tells us he is serious!

''Maybe you're the runner up

But the first one to lose the race

Almost only really counts in

Horseshoes and hand grenades''

These lines tells us what he thinks she become.

In his eyes she failed. And having her as a rolemodel makes him feel lost, and well mad about the situation, so he takes it on her.

Which in my opinion leads us to "21 Guns". I feel that it's Christian forgiving her, you know, giving up the fight and laying down his arms. Or maybe it's Gloria asking Christian to forgive her. Then I feel that since they're together again after that song, perhaps stronger than ever before, it leads us to "American Eulogy", where they both lash out about how much they hate hysteria and how they don't want to live in the modern world.

[.Militza.]

Maybe,

Cuz Christian have sinned too. in song like Murder City, and Peacemaker, he clearly states how he wants to take the justice in his own hands.

And then finding out the truth about Gloria, he get more furious then ever, cuz he held up to her, and she lied to him, ( he did not know about the drug addiction), he says "I'm not fucking around", that he's gonna burn everything down.

And then in 21 guns, IMO they meet each other, in first lines accusing each other, for everything they've done,but also realize that they love each other, and they're giving up on that fight between them, and deciding that they're staying together.

[mallorymaloney]

I like this thread a lot. It's really interesting to read everyone's ideas on the storyline!

[CrimsonSheep]

I like this thread a lot. It's really interesting to read everyone's ideas on the storyline!

Very agree.

[.Militza.]

The storyline is little bit confusing at first, but later it just gets better.

[IamRobotHearMeRoar]

The storyline is little bit confusing at first, but later it just gets better.

agreed

it took me a couple of times to listen to it to get my head around the storyline if im honest =P

[.Militza.]

I couldn't really get the whole storyline together, till one girl here on GDC told her opinion on the story.

Then all the bricks came together.

And it's beautiful.

But there is something that is bugging me. I can't really tell in which song Christian finds out about Gloria's addiction?

In Little Girl maybe? But she confess it in the RHS...

[HoneyDo666]

I'm still working it out.

I think she's the rebel with a cause. She stands up for things she believes in, and when she realizes she can't do it alone, she feels it was all for nothing. She then delves into the harmful side of rebellion, drugs and painkillers and such. 21 Guns is her giving up, she can't fight anymore.

In See the Light, she questions what she's become and sees the light at the end of the tunnel. She decides to start anew.

I think.

[.Militza.]

^ yeah, that's what I think too, in some ways.

I think i read somewhere that BJ said that Gloria is the main character, and the story is about her.

She is like JOS in AI, and Christian is like Whatsername, or St. Jimmy.

[CrimsonSheep]

I couldn't really get the whole storyline together, till one girl here on GDC told her opinion on the story.

Then all the bricks came together.

And it's beautiful.

But there is something that is bugging me. I can't really tell in which song Christian finds out about Gloria's addiction?

In Little Girl maybe? But she confess it in the RHS...

Probably in Little Girl. "You're just a junkie preachin' to the choir," etc.

[.Militza.]

Yeah probably, that's when Christian tells her that, and later she confess it in RHS

[elanorelle72]

this really does remind me of an Opera from like the 1700s...for some reason it makes me very emotional...for me ,he is continuing on that tradition of drama ( just more of a rock opera sense)

it does something to me ...and seems to bring out alot of repressed feelings in myself of both happiness and anger...

Its nice to see the whole pathos and love...with drama ..I am so glad they are using some of these songs in the musical coming up but I would love to see 21 CBD as a whole production with dialogue and everything...Reminds me of those two masks ...the happy mask and sad mask..Tragedy and comedy...wait a minute ..he uses that phrase in a song!..Shakespearian even...

it seems like every eon has creators of fantastic works...this is that time...Billie Joe et al...really have created a masterpiece in my eyes

[.Militza.]

^ Agreed.

[elanorelle72]

and interesting that he chose "Gloria" as the main character....

I have studying classical music and sang many "Gloria's" from Vivaldi all the way up to John Rutter...

sorry if I get complicated...I have classical music training...Each work has happiness. and sadness.

and joy and the word Gloria is repeated in many different movements...somehow I get this same feel..

Now granted Church music always had a structure and the same latin words done in a certain structure...

But Gloria is latin for Glory or Joy...its interesting that in Viva La Gloria...there is a part where it is sung...

"She smashed her knuckles into winter" and "She is the saint of the sinners"...where "Gloria" is sung over top...that to me is quite a traditional ( exciting for me) method and almost uses like an underscore of the character...a seperate choir/line...focuses on her...and it certainly gives me the idea ..that yes this work is about Gloria...

...

"

the more I study this whole CD..the more i find...and the more i discover...and the more truly genius this whole thing is...

[HoneyDo666]

and interesting that he chose "Gloria" as the main character....

I have studying classical music and sang many "Gloria's" from Vivaldi all the way up to John Rutter...

sorry if I get complicated...I have classical music training...Each work has happiness. and sadness.

and joy and the word Gloria is repeated in many different movements...somehow I get this same feel..

Now granted Church music always had a structure and the same latin words done in a certain structure...

But Gloria is latin for Glory or Joy...its interesting that in Viva La Gloria...there is a part where it is sung...

"She smashed her knuckles into winter" and "She is the saint of the sinners"...where "Gloria" is sung over top...that to me is quite a traditional ( exciting for me) method and almost uses like an underscore of the character...a seperate choir/line...focuses on her...and it certainly gives me the idea ..that yes this work is about Gloria...

...

"

the more I study this whole CD..the more i find...and the more i discover...and the more truly genius this whole thing is...

Very cool character study!

[.Militza.]

I'm just confused about the line " She smashed her knuckles into winter, as autumn winter fades into black "

and what exactly does it mean?

[CrimsonSheep]

I'm just confused about the line " She smashed her knuckles into winter, as autumn winter fades into black "

and what exactly does it mean?

I thought it was "autumn's wind"?

It seems to me like it's saying, it's getting towards the end of the year and it's getting colder, or more metaphorically everybody's losing hope, but she's still fighting on. She's fighting the cold and the hopelessness along with fighting for her cause. (Especially with the later line about "don't look back on last November when your banners were burning down," don't think about the times when everyone was hopeless.)

But that's just my take on it.

[4whatsername8]

"She's the saint of all the sinners" basically means that she is their redemption. I think that Gloria is a lot like Jesus in a way. Jesus never hung around good and holy people - he hung out with prostitutes, whores, and thieves. Gloria is the same way. She hangs around Christian and probably a number of other bad influences; she is there to guide and protect them like a mother. Thus, she is a saint.

Sorry if I got a bit religious there, but the whole album can symbolically relate to the bible, whether Green Day intended for this to happen or not (probably not, though).