Bastard of 1967 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I tend to agree with most of what you said. Well put. The one thing I have a little issue with is "they surrender to it, and they realize that each other is all they have left....so time to bury the hatchet and move on."I don't think they bury the hatchet. I think these two people are so different, so estranged from each other and the world around them that the 21 Gun Salute signifies the death of their own relationship. One (Xian or Gloria) responds to the dissolution by "laying down his/her arms, and giving up the fight." In essence, saying "I'm tired of trying."One (Xian or Gloria) responds to the dissolution by "throwing up his/her arms into the sky." In essence saying, "It's all hopeless."You and I. It's over. The kiss they share in the 21G video? I think it's their last. Then, as the album continues, American Eulogy documents the world around them, post-relationship. Notice how much clearer the lyrics are. Without the blinders of love, they are more open to seeing what's truly going on. Then, See the Light offers up the "what might have been" epilogue, much the same way Whatsername did for AI. "I just wanna see the light", to me, is desperately wanting to know, "Have I made the right choices? Did I do right by the other person? What do we do now?"Agree? Disagree? Talk amongst yourselves.Agree, at least in part. Nice analysis! I think your interpretation is supported by the lyrics, but I don't think it's clear from the lyrics or from the album which interpretation is "correct", that is, from what we'd conclude if we could crawl inside of Billie Joe's head and see what's going on in there. (Scary thought, but I digress!)Anyway, the best GD songs are written like that -- open to several different ways of looking at it, all valid and all supported by the text of the lyrics and the other songs on the album. So - I think we have two alternate "endings" for the album now, one in which Christian and Gloria reconcile, the other (your interp.) in which they go their separate ways. I'd offer a third: "the view from 30,000 feet" that Angelina first wrote extensively about in her GDA editorial last month -- that Christian and Gloria are "opposite points of the same compass" -- not so much alter egos for each other like Jesus and Jimmy in AI, but more like two different ways of looking at the world, coexisting within the same person/actor at the same time. Then we have to add the religious-themed gloss from the rest of the album, in which one of the arguments I think Billie Joe is making is that the world has been so fucked up by fanatical religous dogma that the only course of action is to torch it in an apocalyptic revolution and start over with a clean slate. I haven't found a way to weave 21Guns in with these "beyond the surface plot of the album" threads yet, and I think it's one of the more difficult songs on the album to fit into them.
deanopeez Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Agree, at least in part. Nice analysis! I think your interpretation is supported by the lyrics, but I don't think it's clear from the lyrics or from the album which interpretation is "correct", that is, from what we'd conclude if we could crawl inside of Billie Joe's head and see what's going on in there. (Scary thought, but I digress!)Anyway, the best GD songs are written like that -- open to several different ways of looking at it, all valid and all supported by the text of the lyrics and the other songs on the album. So - I think we have two alternate "endings" for the album now, one in which Christian and Gloria reconcile, the other (your interp.) in which they go their separate ways. I'd offer a third: "the view from 30,000 feet" that Angelina first wrote extensively about in her GDA editorial last month -- that Christian and Gloria are "opposite points of the same compass" -- not so much alter egos for each other like Jesus and Jimmy in AI, but more like two different ways of looking at the world, coexisting within the same person/actor at the same time. Then we have to add the religious-themed gloss from the rest of the album, in which one of the arguments I think Billie Joe is making is that the world has been so fucked up by fanatical religous dogma that the only course of action is to torch it in an apocalyptic revolution and start over with a clean slate. I haven't found a way to weave 21Guns in with these "beyond the surface plot of the album" threads yet, and I think it's one of the more difficult songs on the album to fit into them.Thanks for the compliment. (Five posts in and I'm gettin' RESPECT! :wink:) I've not read Angelina's editorial, could someone link it?As far as the "religious dogma" layer goes, I'm on board with that. Though, I'm not sure I'd take the apocalyptic revolution quite so literally. My feeling about the whole album is one of personal responsibility and enlightenment. I think BJ wants the revolution to come from inside each one of us, and we as individuals must clean the slate and start anew to change the world. If it's taken that personally, I think Xian and Gloria's decisions in 21G fit perfectly. Leaving each other behind is just the last step of starting a new personal lease on life. I love this stuff! Intelligent discussion rulz.
Bastard of 1967 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Thanks for the compliment. (Five posts in and I'm gettin' RESPECT! :wink:) I've not read Angelina's editorial, could someone link it?As far as the "religious dogma" layer goes, I'm on board with that. Though, I'm not sure I'd take the apocalyptic revolution quite so literally. My feeling about the whole album is one of personal responsibility and enlightenment. I think BJ wants the revolution to come from inside each one of us, and we as individuals must clean the slate and start anew to change the world. If it's taken that personally, I think Xian and Gloria's decisions in 21G fit perfectly. Leaving each other behind is just the last step of starting a new personal lease on life. I love this stuff! Intelligent discussion rulz.You can find Angelina's editorial at http://www.greendayauthority.com/editorials/article.php?id=8 .Also check out the various discussion threads at http://www.greendaycommunity.org/Forum/ind...hp?showforum=85 . There's a lot of "yeah, this song's cool/yeah, this song sucks" but also some good interpretations and analysis mixed in.Two other threads where good discussions of the lyrics have taken place are http://www.greendaycommunity.org/Forum/ind...showtopic=68792 and http://www.greendaycommunity.org/Forum/ind...=69194&st=0. That last URL is a discussion of the album's religious criticism, and one of my posts there (http://www.greendaycommunity.org/Forum/ind....&p=3029352) is where I dig into the "apocalyptic revolution" undercurrents that my wife and I found.And on that point -- yes I think you're on to something that hasn't been expressed that way on the board here, that's just as valid as other interpretations of the record are. Yet again I think we see where the album is capable of so many different messages ranging from the benign, the romantic, the personal, the transformative, all the way to the other end of the spectrum where we find rage, hellfire, apocalypse, and revolution. It's just amazing to me that this band can pack so much different meaning and emotion into eighteen three-to-five-minute tracks.....and there is so much more to sift through that we haven't even begun to touch yet.
Sharmellow Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 gloria was hotThat's all you can say about the video?
HB KID Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I like it so much and I think its better than know your enemy!!! One, 21 gunsLay down your armsGive up the fight
Greenday_Aussie Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 That's all you can say about the video? Its all that NEEDS to be said
MaryJaneJinx86 Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 I thought the video was intense and of course it was better than the Know Your Enemy video, the actual song is better, too. :fakenopic:
darenmay Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 i saw it already on channel v. but it's not yet on mtv, i guess.it hasn't entered the chart yet.
_all_is_well_ Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 I thought it was way better then the KYE video. When I first watched it I didnt really know they had robbed a bank, untill I watched the makeing of. still, I think its one of the most intereting videos theyve made in awhile.
blitzkriegdeb Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 I still think that they should've explained the whole "robbing the bank" thing better, people who haven't seen the making of won't understand the police lights. :/I still like the KYE video better, it was short, simple, and to the point. This video is just a little too dramatic for my liking.
Drink Drank Punk Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 I still think that they should've explained the whole "robbing the bank" thing better, people who haven't seen the making of won't understand the police lights. :/Agreed. I had no idea what was going on until I saw the making of video too. I just assumed it was a drug bust the first time i saw it.
Atticus Finch Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 I still think that they should've explained the whole "robbing the bank" thing better, people who haven't seen the making of won't understand the police lights. :/.... wtf? Robbed a bank? I thought the police were there just for a dramatic effect.I guess that's what I get for not watching the making of.
Juan Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 .... wtf? Robbed a bank? I thought the police were there just for a dramatic effect.I guess that's what I get for not watching the making of. same here
Katarina. Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 I still think that they should've explained the whole "robbing the bank" thing better, people who haven't seen the making of won't understand the police lights. :/Hmm, yeah that's true. Though, I think the police lights give the video a more dramatic effect, so for that you didn't have to watch the making of
gdayfreak247 Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 i love this video! Sooo good! Tre looks awesome! i love him!!!!! And when Gloria and Christian kiss it really looks like the album cover. It really amazed me when i first watched it.
Another Urchin Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 Hmm, yeah that's true. Though, I think the police lights give the video a more dramatic effect, so for that you didn't have to watch the making of I thought the police lights were just to show they lived in a crappy neighborhood. After watching the making of video, the whole thing makes a lot more sense (the phone call thing made no sense to me before).
~Toast~ Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Bloody brilliant!If I had the resources I would love to direct something like this or film it or something it's so amazing I just wish I could have been apart of it.. Hell I would be the one to get the snacks for the crew!
Tiffx Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 I saw this on TV the other day. MTV was playing it heaps, in Asia anyway.
Brian Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 Saw it on Number 1 Countdown Alternative on Fuse today. It was #6...but i recorded it
minus52 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 the lyrics on the wall are actually from see the light
saffy Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I have a doubt about the vid: why doesn't the fish get electrocuted? That's really strange
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