Bastard of 1967 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 It was never anti-war to me, its personal, its spiritual its needing and wanting, its being lost and lonely and trying so hard to find that one thing. The song has so many layers I doubt any one could have done it justice tbh. I just don't think the final video made any sense at all. I do think that two video's in to the album things are not good on a video level.Also whether we take it from the point of view of the whole world being a disaster and all we have is each other, I think it would have been nicer had some background to the 'room scene' been offered to the viewer, because whether the director was attempting to offer us this scenario it didn't work in my opinion. I would also have liked to see the two main characters turned into their graffiti counterparts during 'the kiss', maybe i'm just not into watching teens kiss or something but whilst others melted at it I cringed. I also didn't get the whole bank robbery approach a la Bonnie and Clyde from watching any of that. Oh I don't know I guess I was just waiting for more to happen.:/I concur with there being so many deeper layers of meaning in the song...I guess that's the problem I have with it -- why, then, "one, 21 guns?" A 21-gun salute is what you give a fallen war hero. That's where I get stuck with this one. I also agree that the bank-robbery approach doesn't do the song, or the album, any justice. The gunshots going off all over the place do seem to fit well, though, especially the part where Christian is aiming the remote control at the TV, hits a button, and out comes a bullet that blows a hole in the screen.*Sigh* I don't know if I'll ever be able to figure this one out.
Nova-Caine Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 ^^ You must you have to you're my guru for the spoken word on here now I did actually think that there might have been some reference to the 21 gun salute tbh.
MusicalDeviant Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I'm actually warming up to this video. I actually really enjoy it.
Greenday_Aussie Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I concur with there being so many deeper layers of meaning in the song...I guess that's the problem I have with it -- why, then, "one, 21 guns?" A 21-gun salute is what you give a fallen war hero. That's where I get stuck with this one. I also agree that the bank-robbery approach doesn't do the song, or the album, any justice. The gunshots going off all over the place do seem to fit well, though, especially the part where Christian is aiming the remote control at the TV, hits a button, and out comes a bullet that blows a hole in the screen.*Sigh* I don't know if I'll ever be able to figure this one out. Whats so hard to get? The 21 guns is a metaphor for the characters fall from grace/innocence? And yes, it shares a anti-war message, but since its apart of 21stCB, its not about the later.
Bastard of 1967 Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 ^^ You must you have to you're my guru for the spoken word on here now I did actually think that there might have been some reference to the 21 gun salute tbh.Heehee I'm flattered.... And I'm up for the challenge.... I think.... or maybe I would be if my little girl hadn't woken us up at 5am today. :bored: Anyway - Greenday_Aussie may be on to something here but I want to take it in a little different direction:The 21 guns is a metaphor for the characters fall from grace/innocence? And yes, it shares a anti-war messageHow 'bout "21 Guns" not as a direct ant-war metaphor like Holiday's lyrics were, but as symbolizing the end of a conflict and moving on afterwards..... what do you do when a war ends? You bring your exhausted, dead soldiers home, you give them the 21-gun salute, you bury them, you accept what you're left with, and you go forward with that. Here's where I differ from 'Aussie: In 21CB the characters have already fallen from grace and lost their innocence well before we reach 21G. Christian has gone on rampage after rampage, Gloria The Torchbearer bravely ran away in Little Girl and has turned to the Good Weed, antidepressants, or whateverthehell her pill-du-jour escape mechanism was in RHS. They've just been blinding themselves to this up to this point in the album, so perhaps now they recognize what they've done? If so, when we reach 21G, they're both worn-out exhausted, they surrender to it, and they realize that each other is all they have left....so time to bury the hatchet and move on.All of which could probably have been captured in the video without the unnecessary "Bonnie & Clyde" plot.Any takers?
emmaILGD! Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 How 'bout "21 Guns" not as a direct ant-war metaphor like Holiday's lyrics were, but as symbolizing the end of a conflict and moving on afterwards..... what do you do when a war ends? You bring your exhausted, dead soldiers home, you give them the 21-gun salute, you bury them, you accept what you're left with, and you go forward with that. Here's where I differ from 'Aussie: In 21CB the characters have already fallen from grace and lost their innocence well before we reach 21G. Christian has gone on rampage after rampage, Gloria The Torchbearer bravely ran away in Little Girl and has turned to the Good Weed, antidepressants, or whateverthehell her pill-du-jour escape mechanism was in RHS. They've just been blinding themselves to this up to this point in the album, so perhaps now they recognize what they've done? If so, when we reach 21G, they're both worn-out exhausted, they surrender to it, and they realize that each other is all they have left....so time to bury the hatchet and move on.All of which could probably have been captured in the video without the unnecessary "Bonnie & Clyde" plot.Any takers?I concur. That was a very good explanation/theory.
amy_runs Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I saw this on tv for the first time yesterday! it made me happy.
spark in the night Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Now everyone likes Sam Bayer dude? I'v always thought he was douche so I'm glad his gone.he is a douchebut he made good videos that related to the song
Daughter.of.Rage.and.Love Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 How 'bout "21 Guns" not as a direct ant-war metaphor like Holiday's lyrics were, but as symbolizing the end of a conflict and moving on afterwards..... what do you do when a war ends? You bring your exhausted, dead soldiers home, you give them the 21-gun salute, you bury them, you accept what you're left with, and you go forward with that. Here's where I differ from 'Aussie: In 21CB the characters have already fallen from grace and lost their innocence well before we reach 21G. Christian has gone on rampage after rampage, Gloria The Torchbearer bravely ran away in Little Girl and has turned to the Good Weed, antidepressants, or whateverthehell her pill-du-jour escape mechanism was in RHS. They've just been blinding themselves to this up to this point in the album, so perhaps now they recognize what they've done? If so, when we reach 21G, they're both worn-out exhausted, they surrender to it, and they realize that each other is all they have left....so time to bury the hatchet and move on.All of which could probably have been captured in the video without the unnecessary "Bonnie & Clyde" plot.Any takers?Good theory.
Greenday_Aussie Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Heehee I'm flattered.... And I'm up for the challenge.... I think.... or maybe I would be if my little girl hadn't woken us up at 5am today. :bored: Anyway - Greenday_Aussie may be on to something here but I want to take it in a little different direction:How 'bout "21 Guns" not as a direct ant-war metaphor like Holiday's lyrics were, but as symbolizing the end of a conflict and moving on afterwards..... what do you do when a war ends? You bring your exhausted, dead soldiers home, you give them the 21-gun salute, you bury them, you accept what you're left with, and you go forward with that. Here's where I differ from 'Aussie: In 21CB the characters have already fallen from grace and lost their innocence well before we reach 21G. Christian has gone on rampage after rampage, Gloria The Torchbearer bravely ran away in Little Girl and has turned to the Good Weed, antidepressants, or whateverthehell her pill-du-jour escape mechanism was in RHS. They've just been blinding themselves to this up to this point in the album, so perhaps now they recognize what they've done? If so, when we reach 21G, they're both worn-out exhausted, they surrender to it, and they realize that each other is all they have left....so time to bury the hatchet and move on.All of which could probably have been captured in the video without the unnecessary "Bonnie & Clyde" plot.Any takers?That sounds about right!
johnnydbja Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Aww, I really liked it. I was pretty worried about this one, and now I'm just relieved that it's nothing like WMUWSE at all. 21 Guns is a pretty difficult song to make a video for, and I think it turned out just about as good as it could turn out. Thumbs up from me!fer sher. ps.LOLLLL I LOVE YOUR ICON!Aww, I really liked it. I was pretty worried about this one, and now I'm just relieved that it's nothing like WMUWSE at all. 21 Guns is a pretty difficult song to make a video for, and I think it turned out just about as good as it could turn out. Thumbs up from me!fer sher. ps.LOLLLL I LOVE YOUR ICON!
Tiffx Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 How 'bout "21 Guns" not as a direct ant-war metaphor like Holiday's lyrics were, but as symbolizing the end of a conflict and moving on afterwards..... what do you do when a war ends? You bring your exhausted, dead soldiers home, you give them the 21-gun salute, you bury them, you accept what you're left with, and you go forward with that. Here's where I differ from 'Aussie: In 21CB the characters have already fallen from grace and lost their innocence well before we reach 21G. Christian has gone on rampage after rampage, Gloria The Torchbearer bravely ran away in Little Girl and has turned to the Good Weed, antidepressants, or whateverthehell her pill-du-jour escape mechanism was in RHS. They've just been blinding themselves to this up to this point in the album, so perhaps now they recognize what they've done? If so, when we reach 21G, they're both worn-out exhausted, they surrender to it, and they realize that each other is all they have left....so time to bury the hatchet and move on.All of which could probably have been captured in the video without the unnecessary "Bonnie & Clyde" plot.Any takers?Well you just summed up the whole song for me, thanks.
Atticus Finch Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 he is a douchebut he made good videos that related to the songagreed. i still can't warm up to the video at all. it just doesn't make any sense to me and is kind of just cheesy. not that i don't like it, because it catches billie joe's face at just the right angles.
blank_space Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I think depending on personal taste the video is either 'amazing' or 'lame' to people. Maybe it depends on how 'romantic' you are This video has grown on me, but I also find myself wishing there was something more there. Namely, the passion between Christian and Gloria. But I love the recreation of the album cover with the light shining through the bullet holes. They did good there.
Bastard of 1967 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Well you just summed up the whole song for me, thanks.You're welcome -- but thank Nova-caine too, she prodded me to dig deeper into this one than I was willing to the other day.
Nova-Caine Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 ^^^ Haha it's only because I'm selfish and love to read your thoughts.... How you write is thought provoking and makes me challenge myself into digging deeper, into not just skimming over the surface of this amazing album but to immerse myself into it entirely and not come up til I'm covered and drenched in the Glory that Billie has offered to us with his soul.It's me that should be thanking you
Mato Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 lol Billie raises his lip like Billy Idol alot in this video
silvi@ Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 life invaded by the horrors of warlove that triumphs on the war simpler than that...
Farah Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 i finally saw it on tv today for the first time, twice! xD
peepee Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I actually dont think that the song is about a character called Gloria or whatever. I'm starting to believe that it is a personal song about Billie Joe and Adrienne. I think the girl looks a lot like Adrienne too. I never thought about the song as a break up song or whatever, but I think maybe it is about the era around Warning where Adrienne and BJ were almost braking up (Church on sunday). What do you guy's think? Read the lyrics again...
Nova-Caine Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 ^^ Sorry I don't agree, he covered that with Church on Sunday, there would be no need to go over it again unless they were still in the same situation. And judging from what we see/ are told all things are hunky dory in Billie and wifey land.
deanopeez Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 How 'bout "21 Guns" not as a direct ant-war metaphor like Holiday's lyrics were, but as symbolizing the end of a conflict and moving on afterwards..... what do you do when a war ends? You bring your exhausted, dead soldiers home, you give them the 21-gun salute, you bury them, you accept what you're left with, and you go forward with that. Here's where I differ from 'Aussie: In 21CB the characters have already fallen from grace and lost their innocence well before we reach 21G. Christian has gone on rampage after rampage, Gloria The Torchbearer bravely ran away in Little Girl and has turned to the Good Weed, antidepressants, or whateverthehell her pill-du-jour escape mechanism was in RHS. They've just been blinding themselves to this up to this point in the album, so perhaps now they recognize what they've done? If so, when we reach 21G, they're both worn-out exhausted, they surrender to it, and they realize that each other is all they have left....so time to bury the hatchet and move on.All of which could probably have been captured in the video without the unnecessary "Bonnie & Clyde" plot.Any takers?I tend to agree with most of what you said. Well put. The one thing I have a little issue with is "they surrender to it, and they realize that each other is all they have left....so time to bury the hatchet and move on."I don't think they bury the hatchet. I think these two people are so different, so estranged from each other and the world around them that the 21 Gun Salute signifies the death of their own relationship. One (Xian or Gloria) responds to the dissolution by "laying down his/her arms, and giving up the fight." In essence, saying "I'm tired of trying."One (Xian or Gloria) responds to the dissolution by "throwing up his/her arms into the sky." In essence saying, "It's all hopeless."You and I. It's over. The kiss they share in the 21G video? I think it's their last. Then, as the album continues, American Eulogy documents the world around them, post-relationship. Notice how much clearer the lyrics are. Without the blinders of love, they are more open to seeing what's truly going on. Then, See the Light offers up the "what might have been" epilogue, much the same way Whatsername did for AI. "I just wanna see the light", to me, is desperately wanting to know, "Have I made the right choices? Did I do right by the other person? What do we do now?"Agree? Disagree? Talk amongst yourselves.
Ingrid Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 ^ Never thought about it like that, I think that's an interesting theory.
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