Billie Joe's lyrical ability

[Kate Austen]

I still say Billie is good not great as a lyricist (when we break it down technically) - and compare him to every lyricist ever recorded in history.

But then again, what's the point of thinking that way. If you enjoy the music, that is all that matters. *shrugs*

[Freeny]

Billie Joe's lyrics are so amazing, I just have to say that. It's something you can relate to in so many ways, and I love how a line can have so many different meanings. It takes some hard work to accomplish that.

[captain peroxide]

He's one of the better lyricists working in that style of music (punk rock / pop punk) and I think he could take on some of the greats as well. I think his lyrics are clever and always work well with the song (or maybe the song works well with the lyrics. Either way, he's talented) and I like what he says. I do think he got a little too metaphorical on AI, which some people might see as pretentious, but I just find it harder to relate to.

Only on some of the songs though, most of them I can relate to instantly, understand and share his emotions. I'm not saying that certain songs (JOS and Homecoming spring to mind because they're full of what seem like pretty abstract lyrics at first listen) being harder to relate to is bad, because I like to think about songs. It just means I have to go through and try and decipher what he means.

[_all_is_well_]

He fo real keeps it real

[roknrolgrl]

In my opinion, Billie Joe may not be as profound as Dylan, or as raw as Cobain, but he speaks to a more specific audience. Therefore, his words have more of a personal impact. That he has spoken for me is absolutely true and he has probably touched me deeper than any other artist in my life.

[J'net]

I was thinking about this thread today while driving home and listening to (of course) Green Day. I love to figure out as many possible meanings as I can to anyone's lyrics, and Billie's are especially good for this exercise. I alos love his little plays on words and clever phrasing.

However, there are also times when getting too analytical over every word in a song can destroy its magic. Often, it's the lyrics, the tune, the rhythm, the ways the lyrics are sung, the way a particular instrument or harmony adds an unexpected emphasis in one spot - all of that added up together - that makes the song a singular piece of art. I also think that's one of the things that Green Day is especially good at - putting it all together into a beautifully wrapped package with a specially precious gift inside.

When I listened to KYE for the first time today, I was really struck by this. I quite liked the previews we heard previously, but they gave me very little hint of how the song as a whole was going to affect me. Wow - it is so much more than I expected (even though my expectations for these guys are so high).

So, while I think Billie Joe is a brilliant lyricist with moments of sheer genius, I also think that Green Days' music is so much more than just the lyrics, and they have never let me down for all these years.

[Greenday_Aussie]

What song has the lyrics "Fallen from grace/on my face?"

[J'net]

What song has the lyrics "Fallen from grace/on my face?"

I've always thought it was "falling from grace - right on my face"

And the song is "Reject."

[Modern Zero.]

I really love how Billie repeats words in the songs on 21CB.

Like, for example, he uses the word "choir" a lot in the songs:

"The choir infantry" -Know Your Enemy

"Join the choir we will be singing" -East Jesus Nowhere

"You're just a junkie, Preaching to the choir." -Viva La Gloria?

"And the deaf-mute is misleading the choir." -American Eulogy: Mass Hysteria

And also the frequent uses of fire/burning/light and water:

"From the lights early dawn" -21CB

"Burning down the foreman of control." -Know Your Enemy

"Don't be blinded by the lies." -Know Your Enemy

"Say your prayers and light a fire." -Viva La Gloria!

"So don't put away your burning light." -Viva La Gloria!

"When your banners where burning down." -Viva La Gloria!

"Don't let the bonfires go out" -Viva La Gloria!

"Send out your message of the light" -Viva La Gloria!

"There's fire in my veins" -Christian's Inferno

"If I loose everything in the fire" -Last Night on Earth

"And it's pouring out like a flood" -Christain's Inferno

"When the rain had washed away" -Before the Lobotomy

"Hearts are washed in misery" -Before the Lobotomy

And then of course we all know that on the album cover, there's flame-like graffiti on the wall behind Christian and Gloria =)

I just love how he connects all these words and phrases together and then "recycles them" and puts them in other songs on the album. I think it's really clever. Like how in 21CB he says "I've been to the edge" and then in Viva La Gloria? he first says, "Are you standing close to the edge?" and then later says, "Hey Gloria, This is why we're on the edge" And also how in 21CB he says "I am a nation" and then also says it in American Eulogy: Modern World.

And I also love his clever rhyming in the songs as well. Not just simple rhyming that anyone can do like fall and all, but more like the cool rhyming phrases, which some of them that I liked were:

"The brutality of reality." -Before the Lobotomy

"With every breath that I am worth, Here on earth" -Last Night On Earth

"For I am the Caesar, I'm gonna seize the day" -Peacemaker

"The orgasm, the spasm of love and hate" -Peacemaker

"Vendetta, Sweet Vendetta. This beretta of the night." -Peacemaker

"She's a runaway of the establishment incorporated, She won't cooperate."

"Well everything that you employ, Was meant for me to destroy." -Horseshoes and Handgarnades

"What a fucking tragedy, strategy" -The Static Age

"The silence of the rotten, forgotten" -The Static Age

Here is this thing I did to determine the words he uses the most in all of the lyrics:

I just went to http://www.wordle.net/ and clicked on "Create" and copyed and pasted the lyrics into the box provided. The bigger words are the ones that are used the most, and as they get smaller in size, that's the less frequently used they are. Just thought that it was cool

I think some of my favorite songs on 21CB are going to be: Before the Lobotomy, Viva La Gloria!, Viva La Gloria?, Last Night on Earth, East Jesus Nowhere, American Eulogy, and 21 Guns. They're all so good though! =)

[failure00]

Just wanting to gauge the true feeling about Billie Joe's lyrical ability. I was reading the comments under the news items of 21CB's Lyrics Release and somebody compared him the Bob Dylan and Kurt Cobain.

I've always felt Billie goes a bit over his skis with his lyrics starting with AI. To me it seems like he tries to say profound things, but there is no real point to most of it, or maybe it has meaning to him and he leaves it up to everyone else to come up with their own interpretation. That's all well and good, but that's not a skilled lyricist. He does some nice word play ("Fallen from grace/Right on my face"), but when I think of great lyrics I look at Sting and Maynard of Tool.

I'm not denying Billie can write a killer song, I'm an enormous Green Day fan, but when I saw that comment I had to speak up. He's an average lyricist at best in my opinion. What do you guys think, and be real.

Please. I really like Nirvana but Kurt Cobain isn't even in Billie's league when it comes to lyric writing abilities.

[Peel Slowly And See]

There are a few different leagues of songwriters. It sort of goes...

Bob Dylan

John Lennon

Joe Strummer

Lou Reed

Paul Westerberg

a bunch of other stuff but everything above this category is phenomenal

Billie's in the Paul Westerberg league.

Please. I really like Nirvana but Kurt Cobain isn't even in Billie's league when it comes to lyric writing abilities.

I prefer Billie to Kurt, if just by a hair, but I think that this statement right here is a bit...oh what's the word. Rash? Ignorant? No, those don't quite get it across. I'll just call it overly-dedicated (I wish I could find the right word for this...) and leave it at that.

[Hermione]

^It was the fact that Billie's lyrics stood above anything else I'd heard that attracted me to Green Day in the first place. Nothing to do with being overly-dedicated as you put it. It's lame to just assume that about anyone who happens to think more highly of his lyrics than you.

I love his repetition of words too! I haven't looked into 21st CB's lyrics very much yet but I've always found it interesting how certain words and phrases will crop up through all their albums. It really seems to form part of his distinctive style and it's nice to see the trend continuing on the this album, you've given me a head start on watching out for little connections

And I love the quotes you've picked out, he has such a great knack for those short but effective phrases. It's really fun to look into his lyrics like that from time to time, ooh I look forward to getting right into them when I have the album.

[IscoredWaddlesgoals]

I'm oddly transfixed at that graph

[Peel Slowly And See]

Again, directed at Miss Granger, Billie's lyrics stood above anything else that you had heard at the time. Would you say that Billie's lyrics are far and away better than Bob Dylan's? I can understand saying that he's better, but too say that it's by a gigantic margin is a bit inane.

[Hermione]

^I just think lyrics are such a subjective thing that almost any opinion can be valid. It's very difficult to compare lyricists because there's so many different factors that go into making a song good or bad. In the end when it comes to enjoying lyrics it doesn't really matter who's technically best, so you might as well say whoever you like best, is best. That's how I look at it anyway, I don't mind saying Billie Joe's better by a big margin because it feels that way to me.

Miss Granger

Psh I had my name long before her

[Chad is Rad]

I feel like Billie Joe always knows exactly what I'm going through in life, there's always a song that I can listen to that will make it all a lot easier. Coming Clean (the song) helped me a lot in a time when I was utterly confused about my feelings toward life in general. It just feels like he easily gets inside my head with his words, and no other musician has ever made me feel like that before.

[J'net]

I feel like Billie Joe always knows exactly what I'm going through in life, there's always a song that I can listen to that will make it all a lot easier. Coming Clean (the song) helped me a lot in a time when I was utterly confused about my feelings toward life in general. It just feels like he easily gets inside my head with his words, and no other musician has ever made me feel like that before.

I think a lot of people identify with him that way - partly because his songs are SO personal. Not just one or two of his songs, but I'd say the great majority of his songs are intensely personal (whether we know the reasons why or not). And they're very honest - he doesn't sugar-coat his personal feelings, which makes his lyrics more like what goes on inside my head (including many things I might never be willing to say outloud). And yet, he doesn't make them sound so horrible - he truly makes me feel that, "There's nothing wrong with me, this is how I'm supposed to be" and that it's okay to live my life, "The only way I know."

I think his ability to make so many people feel that he's singing directly to and/or about them and their feelings makes for a brilliant lyricist.

[Chad is Rad]

I think a lot of people identify with him that way - partly because his songs are SO personal. Not just one or two of his songs, but I'd say the great majority of his songs are intensely personal (whether we know the reasons why or not). And they're very honest - he doesn't sugar-coat his personal feelings, which makes his lyrics more like what goes on inside my head (including many things I might never be willing to say outloud). And yet, he doesn't make them sound so horrible - he truly makes me feel that, "There's nothing wrong with me, this is how I'm supposed to be" and that it's okay to live my life, "The only way I know."

I think his ability to make so many people feel that he's singing directly to and/or about them and their feelings makes for a brilliant lyricist.

I know! He writes what's on his mind and doesn't give a shit about what other people think. And he can easily get away with it. That's one of the best things about Green Day to me, is the lyrics, and everything just fits so perfectly it just makes it that much better. He even made me more confident about telling people that I was bi, when I first realized the meaning of Coming Clean, I came out to my cousin Jennifer, and from there everyone knows. He made me feel almost proud to be what I am, and before that I hated it.

Another thing is Billie Joe can just state his mind on stage--he can say FUCK YOU to President Bush, but when the Dixie Chicks tried to do that (I don't know if you heard about that), they had a big boycott against their music. Green Day fans just cheer along with him.

[J'net]

I know! He writes what's on his mind and doesn't give a shit about what other people think. And he can easily get away with it. That's one of the best things about Green Day to me, is the lyrics, and everything just fits so perfectly it just makes it that much better. He even made me more confident about telling people that I was bi, when I first realized the meaning of Coming Clean, I came out to my cousin Jennifer, and from there everyone knows. He made me feel almost proud to be what I am, and before that I hated it.

Another thing is Billie Joe can just state his mind on stage--he can say FUCK YOU to President Bush, but when the Dixie Chicks tried to do that (I don't know if you heard about that), they had a big boycott against their music. Green Day fans just cheer along with him.

Yeah, I know what you mean. And the fact is, we should all be proud to be what we are. Why not?

I do remember the Dixie Chicks thing, but it could also have been that their timing was bad. I don't remember that much about the incident except that it really hurt their careers - at least for a while.

[Peel Slowly And See]

^I just think lyrics are such a subjective thing that almost any opinion can be valid. It's very difficult to compare lyricists because there's so many different factors that go into making a song good or bad. In the end when it comes to enjoying lyrics it doesn't really matter who's technically best, so you might as well say whoever you like best, is best. That's how I look at it anyway, I don't mind saying Billie Joe's better by a big margin because it feels that way to me.

Psh I had my name long before her

Subjective opinions are overrated. I find the best way to approach taste is objectively. If that doesn't make sense, I'm probably a madman, but try it out. Approaching taste objectively just opens new doors.

What happened with the Dixie Chicks was that they were decent country stars whose backing was, like the backings of many country music stars, mostly right wing. When they said that they didn't like George W. Bush, the fanbase instantly turned red as hell in the neck and became retarded.

[Hermione]

^Meh, I listen to music and if it's good I like it. Comparing it to other artists, or making sure it's technically good, or thinking about it in the context of the current music scene or whatever seems rather irrelevant and tiresome, I'd rather enjoy the whole finished product. I can leave trying to be objective to music critics or people who find it interesting, I don't believe it's possible to be truly objective about music anyway.

[Peel Slowly And See]

Heheh. Well, I might as well say that when I grow up I would love love love to have a side job as a music critic.

[chewychorizo]

I love that repetition picture

[Hermione]

Heheh. Well, I might as well say that when I grow up I would love love love to have a side job as a music critic.

Haha, well in that case we are both obviously content with our current approaches to music.

[Modern Zero.]

I love that repetition picture

Here's one I did for American Idiot: