Billie Joe's lyrical ability

[bj_sohot]

I think his lyrics are more profound, mixed with feelings, he's the best in everything you do I admire so much as it is

[drumstick]

He very much isn't.

well, that's my opinion

[Guest Billy]

And the lyrics of JOS - blow me away, and obviously come from a very personal place.

Jesus of Suburbia's lyrics don't really make sense.

i was too lazy to get them myself, so i copied them from a link.

I'm the son of rage and love

The Jesus of Suburbia

From the bible of none of the above

On a steady diet of soda pop and Ritalin

No one ever died for my sins in hell

As far as I can tell

At least the ones I got away with

how does his diet change his belief in God? really that doesn't make sense at all.

if you would take that line out of the song, then the song would have a more profound message.

now, i personally like that line because it makes no absolute sense with the rest of the song and is slightly amusing.

does it make the song better? yes, does it fit in the song? no, and finally does it make the lyrics better? no.

i can sing a song about cutting my hair and then sing, "and ice cream never tasted better." it doesn't fit.

the rest of the lyrics are beautiful here.

And there's nothing wrong with me

This is how I'm supposed to be

In a land of make believe

That don't believe in me

these are good lyrics, a tad cliche, but we all get cliche from time to time.

Get my television fix sitting on my crucifix

The living room or my private womb

While the moms and brads are away

To fall in love and fall in debt

To alcohol and cigarettes and Mary Jane

To keep me insane and doing someone else's cocaine

alright, how does getting your tv fixed relate to a crucifix in the smallest way?

how does falling in love and falling in debt relate to this song at all? i mean the lyrics flow, but they don't make sense.

then he starts singing about smoking weed, cigarettes, and drinking. is it related in the smallest way to the song? no

does it make sense? no this last part i always got a kick out of, "and doing someone else's cocaine." cocaine and Jesus related? no

now, this whole section besides the words crucifix and womb relate nothing to the idea of the song, they're just about a lazy apathetic person who enjoys watching tv, smoking, and drinking.

And there's nothing wrong with me

This is how I'm supposed to be

In a land of make believe

That don't believe in me

same as before. Billie Joe knows how to make a song catchy, so this is why it's repeated again.

At the center of the Earth

In the parking lot

Of the 7-11 where I was taught

The motto was just a lie

It says home is where your heart is

But what a shame

Cause everyone's heart

Doesn't beat the same

It's beating out of time

these lyrics are one of the most profound within the whole song, beautiful, they make sense and they're related to at least one of the motifs of the song. i know there are about two or three motifs within this song, and this whole verse deals with the one about home. the lyris flow so beautifully and have such a nice ring to them, they're good.

City of the dead

At the end of another lost highway

Signs misleading to nowhere

City of the damned

Lost children with dirty faces today

No one really seems to care

now, these lyrics make sense, but the flow isn't that great. i mean you get the idea he's trying to say, but he kind of makes it curt.

I read the graffiti

In the bathroom stall

Like the holy scriptures of a shopping mall

And so it seemed to confess

It didn't say much

But it only confirmed that

The center of the earth

Is the end of the world

And I could really care less

now, we're back to this idea about religion and it makes sense, a suburbian Jesus' icons are in a bathroom stall not a blessed church. now the center of the earth being the end of the world, i don't know about that making sense what so ever. it's good and it flows, but it doesn't make sense.

City of the dead

At the end of another lost highway

Signs misleading to nowhere

City of the damned

Lost children with dirty faces today

No one really seems to careeeeee

as previously stated.

I don't care if you don't

I don't care if you don't

I don't care if you don't care

[x4]

I don't care.

this is probably the catchiest part of the song, along with the music here. Billie Joe can right a mean, catchy song.

Everyone is so full of shit

Born and raised by hypocrites

Hearts recycled but never saved

From the cradle to the grave

We are the kids of war and peace

From Anaheim to the middle east

We are the stories and disciples

Of the Jesus of suburbia

Land of make believe

That don't believe in me

Land of make believe

And I don't believe

And I don't care!

I don't care! [x4]

ranting session i see; these lyrics make a lot of sense and are well written. they have good flow and make decent sense. anti-war, anti-religion, and it's good. united peace and such, but they end it with the repeated "I don't care!", which in reality doesn't make sense with the rest of this flow. he was just saying how much he cared about war and such and then he says "I don't care!"

Dearly beloved are you listening?

I can't remember a word that you were saying

Are we demented or am I disturbed?

The space that's in between insane and insecure

Oh therapy, can you please fill the void?

Am I retarded or am I just overjoyed

Nobody's perfect and I stand accused

For lack of a better word, and that's my best excuse

now, i always understood this as the part of the song where Billie Joe acknowledges God and talks to him. i think a lot of people thing that he's talking to a woman, no i'm nearly sure it's God. they're quite beautiful and go really well with the music. so these are my personal favorite lyrics of the song.

[Part 5: Tales of another broken home]

To live and not to breathe

Is to die In tragedy

To run, to run away

To find what you believe

And I leave behind

This hurricane of fucking lies

I lost my faith to this

This town that don't exist

now, Billie Joe miscorrectly uses the word tragedy here, but i'll let it slide. the rest of the lyrics here are good and sensiful.

So I run

I run away

To the light of masochist

And I leave behind

This hurricane of fucking lies

And I walked this line

A million and one fucking times

But not this time

now, masochist and the rest of the ideas in the song do not make sense, unless he's talking about Satan or parental figures as that is God or home related. the lyrics are good, i know they're slightly off, but i copied them. they're good though.

I don't feel any shame

I won't apologize

When there ain't nowhere you can go

Running away from pain

When you've been victimized

Tales from another broken home

You're leaving...

You're leaving...

You're leaving...

Ah you're leaving home...

now, apologizing and rest of the songs ideas don't make sense, unless he's apologizing to his parents or God; otherwise, they're just there to make the song catchier. then it ties in the rest of the home motif and closes it. he did finish all of his ideas, which is good, but there was a lot of jumbled clutter which doesn't make sense. it's good, but sometimes lacking sense.

[IscoredWaddlesgoals]

There's times when he doesn't really seem to make much sense (to me anyway) and I think he sometimes relies on repetition and metaphors/similies too much. It can cloud the meaning of a song and I'd occasionally like him to be more direct and just say it. However, I think when he's direct and simple, the lyrics can be really honest and refreshingly upfront.

I personally prefer Alex Turner as a lyricist though. His words and accent speak to me more.

[Dylan.]

You'll notice that all the songs you referenced are pre-AI. That was kind of my whole point, it seems to me that he has been extending himself a little too far lyrically on these last 2 albums. His early lyrics that came from his personal feelings and angst are what connected me to Green Day 15 years ago. I can remember when Insomniac came out, whenever I was upset or having a hard time I always knew I could pop that CD in and Billie would be pissed off right with me! I wish he would go back to that instead of the "story telling" he's been trying to do lately. I sound like I'm taking a dump on Billie, believe me I'm not, American Idiot is AMAZING, my only point is lyrically I think less is more for Billie.

And I don't want to hear that tired "Billie is moving forward, not backward!" crap, I'm saying know yourself and do what you do best. That's not going backward.

Yeah, except, Billie isn't 20 anymore. His emotions aren't fixated drugs and masturbation and not wanting to get older. His lyrics reflect the pain of society that he feels. So he hasn't changed at all in that sense. And I will not stop using the "Billie's moving forward, not backward" thing. Billie himself said it. All those people that want another Dookie, go buy Dookie and stop calling his new stuff shit just because it is more mature than their other stuff.

[Ingrid]

how does his diet change his belief in God? really that doesn't make sense at all.

Okay, I hope this isn't gonna get me into a long argument with you because that is not my intention and I don't have time for that; but I think you have misunderstood something basic in this song if you think it's about religion. It's more than anything an introduction of the character of Jesus of Suburbia and his life; and even though Billie uses a lot of religious wordplay in this song, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's about religion. It's just a thing he does. Now maybe that doesn't make sense, but that's not the point I'm making. I think the whole 'Jesus of Suburbia' thing is more about the way the character sees himself and/or it's meant to be ironic. I'm probably not expressing myself sufficiently here, but that last bit is just my opinion.

alright, how does getting your tv fixed relate to a crucifix in the smallest way?

Get my television fix - fix, definition: "(slang) An amount or dose of something craved, especially an intravenous injection of a narcotic."

Sitting on my crucifix - 'crucifix' here meaning couch, if I'm not completely mistaken. Again with the religious wordplay.

Those are probably some of my favourite lyrics from the song. I think they're pretty clever, and it took me a while to understand them actually.

how does falling in love and falling in debt relate to this song at all? i mean the lyrics flow, but they don't make sense.

then he starts singing about smoking weed, cigarettes, and drinking. is it related in the smallest way to the song? no

does it make sense? no this last part i always got a kick out of, "and doing someone else's cocaine." cocaine and Jesus related? no

now, this whole section besides the words crucifix and womb relate nothing to the idea of the song, they're just about a lazy apathetic person who enjoys watching tv, smoking, and drinking.

Again, "it's more than anything an introduction of the character of Jesus of Suburbia and his life; and even though Billie uses a lot of religious wordplay in this song, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's about religion." So the things you mention do make sense, however if it was a song merely about JOS' religious beliefs, then they wouldn't. =)

Same goes for the rest of the times you mention God and/or religion being what the song is about. I just don't see it that way at all, but I'm curious about other people's opinions on the matter.

I do however agree with several other points you have made.

[Dylan.]

^ Oh Ya, and Billie, Jesus of Suburbia is not about Jesus Christ.

[Guest Billy]

^ Oh Ya, and Billie, Jesus of Suburbia is not about Jesus Christ.

i interpret the song as a religious and home song, it depends on how you see it i guess? i like the song, it's actually on of Green Day's better songs.

Ingrid did make some really good points.

[chickin'pickin']

I personally prefer Alex Turner as a lyricist though. His words and accent speak to me more.

Fucking hell. I'm not the only one who thinks Alex Turner is a lyrical genius then? 100% behind what you said there.

Alex Turner = The Social Messiah.

[Guest Billy]

you made some really good points, i mean i don't see it as a background to JOS's life, but you might.

it's all the way you look at the song. if you look at the song as a background to JOS's life, then i'm completely wrong on every level.

i guess i didn't see i that way.

[Ingrid]

[IscoredWaddlesgoals]

Fucking hell. I'm not the only one who thinks Alex Turner is a lyrical genius then? 100% behind what you said there.

Alex Turner = The Social Messiah.

Thank you !

No one ever mentions him/Arctic Monkeys on here and some of their songs are bloody devasting (505/Do Me A Favour). Not to sound too much like a fangirl, but I once saw Alex & Matt in a bar near me and I nearly fainted. My friend's brother once broke their drumkit.

His lyrics are so direct and to the point, kinda like early Billie ones. I don't know why, but 'Welcome To Paradise' always seems to remind me of Arctic Monkeys. I'm a strange girl.

[Boston]

he leaves it up to everyone else to come up with their own interpretation. That's all well and good, but that's not a skilled lyricist. He does some nice word play ("Fallen from grace/Right on my face"), but when I think of great lyrics I look at Sting and Maynard of Tool.

Being a good writer is exactly that - leaving what you say open for different interpretation.

Also, "Fallen from grace/Right on my face" doesn't qualify as word play. More like a rhyme.

btw, I'm not arguing that Billie Joe is a master lyricist. I think that his lyrics are so popular because they vocalize what the people on the fringes of society think. Its nothing too profound, unless you look at giving a voice to the outsider as being profound.

[clusterbomb]

he is in my opinion up there with the best

everything he says is so honest

and thats what i love about him

[Hermione]

firstly, we're talking about the lyrics, not the music. the music can develop the lyrics and the lyrics can develop the music.

if you've ever listened to Old Time Radio, things by Orson Welles are magnificent because he develops the narration according the sounds of the show. such as the Shadow, i don't know if you've heard of this Old Radio program, but i've listened to it before. as Orson Welles tells the story you hear the the floor boards make sounds and whispering, to add to the suspense.

musical genres are subjective, television programs are subjective, and foods are subjective.

any form of writing as a whole is objective, liking the format of the writing is a different thing.

Hermione, you're rushing to Green Day's defense, which is understandable in human nature. just as my nature is to seek and destroy.

objective is this well written?

ie. "although he did have a good point in his five paragraph essay, he consistantly made radical statements with no support, he didn't use a transition, nor did he use any commas at all."

Hermione, there's a difference between well written stuff. i mean you can write a beautiful simple song, such as the Beatles. there was no complexity involved at all, yet their lyrics were fabulous. you're a pretty intelligent person, and i remember talking about your GCSE results and they seemed very good. you must know about making statements and supporting them in any form of writing, correct? well, Billie Joe makes hollow statements all the time. you can't seat him at an altar with lyrical greats, but you can say, "hey Billie Joe wrote a really good song, but this song isn't so good; i still like it, but it wasn't written well. i like it and there's nothing you can say about liking it, but i do understand the lyrics are poorly written."

Yes it's possible to judge whether lyrics are poorly written. However that depends how you define "poorly written". It's a loose term.

You obviously have your own preferred way of judging it, as you've clearly stated here. But guess what? So does everybody else! There are many qualities that define good lyrics, and each person will place differing degrees of importance on each one of those qualities - meaning an infinite number of definitions.

There's room for some objectivity because some qualities of good songwriting are recognised by everyone. But within that there's endless room for difference of opinion because we're not all going by the exact same definition.

I place Billie Joe at the head of that alter of lyrical greats

[CarmenPunkGirl]

I actually think his writing ability is MUCH better now then it ever was. While I understand the whole "endearing" angle, I still prefer American Idiot + lyrics to the earlier albums. Especially after reading 21st Century, I really think Billie is moving in the right direction.

i have to agree

[J'net]

I actually think his writing ability is MUCH better now then it ever was. While I understand the whole "endearing" angle, I still prefer American Idiot + lyrics to the earlier albums. Especially after reading 21st Century, I really think Billie is moving in the right direction.

Well, I have to agree. And whether it's right or not, we can rest assured Billie will always write, "The only way [he] knows!" And that's good. That's water in the desert for me.

[Mommy's Little Nightmare]

Jesus of Suburbia's lyrics don't really make sense.

i was too lazy to get them myself, so i copied them from a link.

how does his diet change his belief in God? really that doesn't make sense at all.

if you would take that line out of the song, then the song would have a more profound message.

now, i personally like that line because it makes no absolute sense with the rest of the song and is slightly amusing.

does it make the song better? yes, does it fit in the song? no, and finally does it make the lyrics better? no.

i can sing a song about cutting my hair and then sing, "and ice cream never tasted better." it doesn't fit.

the rest of the lyrics are beautiful here.

these are good lyrics, a tad cliche, but we all get cliche from time to time.

alright, how does getting your tv fixed relate to a crucifix in the smallest way?

how does falling in love and falling in debt relate to this song at all? i mean the lyrics flow, but they don't make sense.

then he starts singing about smoking weed, cigarettes, and drinking. is it related in the smallest way to the song? no

does it make sense? no this last part i always got a kick out of, "and doing someone else's cocaine." cocaine and Jesus related? no

now, this whole section besides the words crucifix and womb relate nothing to the idea of the song, they're just about a lazy apathetic person who enjoys watching tv, smoking, and drinking.

same as before. Billie Joe knows how to make a song catchy, so this is why it's repeated again.

these lyrics are one of the most profound within the whole song, beautiful, they make sense and they're related to at least one of the motifs of the song. i know there are about two or three motifs within this song, and this whole verse deals with the one about home. the lyris flow so beautifully and have such a nice ring to them, they're good.

now, these lyrics make sense, but the flow isn't that great. i mean you get the idea he's trying to say, but he kind of makes it curt.

now, we're back to this idea about religion and it makes sense, a suburbian Jesus' icons are in a bathroom stall not a blessed church. now the center of the earth being the end of the world, i don't know about that making sense what so ever. it's good and it flows, but it doesn't make sense.

as previously stated.

this is probably the catchiest part of the song, along with the music here. Billie Joe can right a mean, catchy song.

ranting session i see; these lyrics make a lot of sense and are well written. they have good flow and make decent sense. anti-war, anti-religion, and it's good. united peace and such, but they end it with the repeated "I don't care!", which in reality doesn't make sense with the rest of this flow. he was just saying how much he cared about war and such and then he says "I don't care!"

now, i always understood this as the part of the song where Billie Joe acknowledges God and talks to him. i think a lot of people thing that he's talking to a woman, no i'm nearly sure it's God. they're quite beautiful and go really well with the music. so these are my personal favorite lyrics of the song.

[Part 5: Tales of another broken home]

now, Billie Joe miscorrectly uses the word tragedy here, but i'll let it slide. the rest of the lyrics here are good and sensiful.

now, masochist and the rest of the ideas in the song do not make sense, unless he's talking about Satan or parental figures as that is God or home related. the lyrics are good, i know they're slightly off, but i copied them. they're good though.

now, apologizing and rest of the songs ideas don't make sense, unless he's apologizing to his parents or God; otherwise, they're just there to make the song catchier. then it ties in the rest of the home motif and closes it. he did finish all of his ideas, which is good, but there was a lot of jumbled clutter which doesn't make sense. it's good, but sometimes lacking sense.

While I could refute the majority of the things said here, all I'm going to settle for saying is that the meaning of the lyrics is clearly lost on you because you're looking at it from a literal stand point, and not a figurative one. It's about symbolism, and you just don't seem to be getting it.

While I respect that you typed all that out to try to make your argument, it just seems like a major fail to me. I'm not going to be assed to type out a lyric by lyric explanation.

[Tubbie Head]

i have to agree

me too.. from the lyrics I've read.. I'm totally blown away! And it made me sooooo excited for this album, I already expected that this would be a great album with Billie’s lyrical style that I love, from the articles with the songs descriptions and so on!

American Idiot was a huge step on Billie's writing skills, I think.. (now I want to go listen to the album again )The album shows the ability he has on writing, especially in a subjective way, with double meanings, so we can give our own interpretation to the song and, and make us think.. That's what attracts me to Green day's Lyrics! I love to hear a song and think about it... and what are the possible meanings that Billie is possibly playing with, etc..

I really prefer songs with subjective lyrics and the ones that some people say that they don’t make sense...

[Dylan.]

i interpret the song as a religious and home song, it depends on how you see it i guess? i like the song, it's actually on of Green Day's better songs.

Ingrid did make some really good points.

Holy shit, did I spell your name as Billie? Haha. My bad.

[Chad is Rad]

For me, he's the greatest lyricist. His words speak to me like nothing else, and I might not be able to put my finger on exactly what it is, but it sure is something special he has. He puts his heart and soul into his songs and writes with total honesty and conviction, I've never come across any other songwriter who does so in quite the same way.

I think he's up there with all the greats, no question

My exact opinion, word for word. Nicely said.

[Bastard of 1967]

Just wanting to gauge the true feeling about Billie Joe's lyrical ability. I was reading the comments under the news items of 21CB's Lyrics Release and somebody compared him the Bob Dylan and Kurt Cobain.

I've always felt Billie goes a bit over his skis with his lyrics starting with AI. To me it seems like he tries to say profound things, but there is no real point to most of it, or maybe it has meaning to him and he leaves it up to everyone else to come up with their own interpretation. That's all well and good, but that's not a skilled lyricist. He does some nice word play ("Fallen from grace/Right on my face"), but when I think of great lyrics I look at Sting and Maynard of Tool.

I'm not denying Billie can write a killer song, I'm an enormous Green Day fan, but when I saw that comment I had to speak up. He's an average lyricist at best in my opinion. What do you guys think, and be real.

I read a review recently -- I can't remember exactly where I saw it -- where the writer said that BJA has a unique ability to "tell it like it is." That really defines his songwriting. It's analagous to how other artists (painters, sculptors, etc., particularly minimalists or impressionists) filter out what isn't important to them and leave you with a nice, tight core of whatever it is they're trying to convey. It goes without saying that he leans dark, edgy, and angst-filled -- sometimes very much so, yet still somehow manages to make it listenable.

Up until AI, it seemed that most of his focus in terms of subject matter or themes fit into a few neat pigeonholes: "the outcast/the loner," "the addict," "the recovering addict," "the failed relationship," or "the rescuing of said failed relationship." Oh yeah, there's also "mental illness and its effects on self & others." There are certainly other subjects he's written about, but these are the big topics that come to mind quickly. He doesn't write sugar-coated pop, and (at least in my opinion) doesn't write just for the sake of putting a song or two out there that's likely to be a top-10 hit. And these songs do exactly what the reviewer suggested -- Billie Joe looks at the topic, digs deep into the underlying feelings, and writes about it in a vague, yet matter-of-fact, "this is what I'm thinking and feeling about this right now, and I don't care if this frightens you, makes you anxious, or blows the roof off your house" sort of way.

When AI came along, his focus on relationships began to shift away from the usual BF/GF/SO and changed instead to the relationship between parents and children, and people and The State. He was still telling it like it is, just now talking about new and much, much more mature subject matter. More importantly, Billie Joe's abundant use of symbols and metaphors turn into verses and phrases that can mean many different things depending on how the listener reads or contextualizes them. This in turn gives his music generation-spanning potential. Back in the early '90s, teenagers, 20somethings, and beyond all found something to connect with in his songwriting; then in '04 AI came out and a new crop of teenagers, 20somethings, and beyond all found something to connect with again. Some of the lyrics in AI that I find particularly compelling include:

(JOS-1) "I'm the son of rage and love"

(JOS-2) "...the center of the earth is the end of the world"

(JOS-4) "The space that's in between insane and insecure/Oh therapy, can you please fill the void?"

(St Jimmy) "I am a sonofabitch and Edgar Allan Poe/Raised (or is he saying "raped"?) in the city in a halo of light"

(Novacaine) "Give me a long kiss goodnight and everything will be alright"

(Letterbomb) "Where have all the riots gone/as the city's motto gets pulverized?"

and

"You're not the Jesus of Suburbia/The St. Jimmy is a figment of/Your father's rage and your mother's love"

(Homecoming) "He says we're f*cked up but we're not the same/and Mom and Dad are the ones you can blame"

I think there are so many of us who either have experienced some of these feelings in our past (me), or are close to someone who has, or have some anxiety about what their little girl is going to encounter as she grows up in this sort of a world (also me), or are otherwise experiencing some of these feelings and anxiety right now. It's as if, no matter what age you are, there's something in this that describes the world we're living in, throws the good, the bad, and the ugly (OK, mostly the bad and the ugly) right in your face, and says "OK now you have to deal with this." I think he's come a long, long way from "Falling from grace/right on my face" of the Dookie, Insomniac, and Nimrod days.

So, at least in my opinion, I find Billie Joe's lyrics riveting. I don't want to go so far as to compare him to Sting, Dylan, Cobain, Lennon, etc. etc., because he is not any one of them and because it'll be another decade or two before we'll know whether his music (particularly, AI, 21CB, and whatever might come afterwards) will stand the same tests of time that the other musicians' have. But do I think that, over time, he will be recognized as among the great lyricists of our generation(s)? Absolutely.

[Eirik]

(St Jimmy) "I am a sonofabitch and Edgar Allan Poe/Raised (or is he saying "raped"?) in the city in a halo of light"

Raised... Definitely raised.

It's also "under a halo of lights"

[Bastard of 1967]

how does his diet change his belief in God? really that doesn't make sense at all.

if you would take that line out of the song, then the song would have a more profound message.

I don't have time to take apart all the lyrics to all five parts of JOS right now, so I'll just focus on part 1. If you haven't seen the "long" version of the video (I think it's available on youtube somewhere or possibly on a link from GDA), you should -- it helps explain a lot about the whole concept underlying the first part of JOS -- who he is, what his problem is, and how he got there. In his mind, he's a modern-day version of Jesus, nailed to his crucifix (the couch in the family living room), suffering (self-destructing) to pay for the sins of his absentee parents who don't listen to him, in a world where "no one really seems to care" about him or anyone else.

[pooldude256]

Raised... Definitely raised.

It's also "under a halo of lights"

Maybe that's what he wants you to think he said.