Billie Joe's lyrical ability

[Guest Billy]

HEY!!!

I was right before him

you were.

[Trotsky]

Music and lyrics are an entirely subjective topic though. There is no set way to judge what is 'good' or 'bad' when it comes to taste in lyrics - there's too many different ways to measure it. Some may value complex lyrics, some may see beauty in simplicity, and a million other factors in between. No two people will judge it in exactly the same way.

I believe in subjectivity, I also happen to believe my subjective view is far superior to others'.

[jose armstrong]

you were, but you don't need recognition, you know you are right.

nirvana song pun not intended

[Seedless_Reject]

i think that Billie Joe is an excellant songwriter and good person in general. I love how i can relate to his lyrics and look at what he's gone through and how he got through it as an inspiration.

[jose armstrong]

I believe in subjectivity, I also happen to believe my subjective view is far superior to others'.

then isn't your belief also subjective?

[Dylan.]

I believe in subjectivity, I also happen to believe my subjective view is far superior to others'.

John, only you would say that, my friend.

[pooldude256]

Have to disagree with your take on Dylan - protest songs may be what he's most famous for, but he writes about his own life, also. Two songs written about his relationship with his then-wife Sara, for instance, are 'Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands' from Blonde on Blonde and 'Sara' from Desire. 'She Belongs to Me' is about Joan Baez, and there are various others. When he was Christian for a while, he wrote the album 'Slow Train Coming' about that.

I will admit, I'm not as familiar with Bob Dylan as a lot of others. I know he's written hundreds of songs, and not all have been about protesting, those were mostly in the '60s/'70s.

I think also it's kind of stupid not to include other great songwriters in the discussion. Dylan and Cobain may not be the greatest. There's Bruce Springsteen, John Mellencamp, and a lot of others. But like I said, it's hard to compare the different generations.

But in terms of modern day, there is no question Billie Joe Armstrong is in the upper-tier of songwriters. His songs are built on story and substance, while most bands today will write 10 songs about how much they love sex, hate relationships and drink a lot and put it out as an album.

[mandypants19]

While I love Kurts lyrics, and appreciate Dylan's, Billie Joe's have always been much more deffinitive for me personally. They always seem to capture a particular emotion, and I think through Billie Joe's lyrics and the way he sings them, you can feel that emotion.

Is it cliche to say that his lyrics speak to me? haha, probably. But I guess I'm kinda cliche

[Break of Day]

I really think that a lot of Billie's earlier songs were very beautiful lyrically. One for the Razorbacks is really good, Going to Pasalacqua, 2000 Light Years Away, Road to Acceptance, etc. I think J.A.R. is the best song lyrically by green day, although written by Mike.

[chickin'pickin']

Billie Joe's lyrics have never been profound. He's had a few powerful songs, however. I'm more into the music side of Green Day, if not all bands.

Lyrics are overrated.

[Guest Hayley]

To be honest I love Billie's lyrics. I can see myself sometimes in his lyrics and I personally think that this is really important for a good song. Billie's lyrics are always full of emotions and feeling they are not just stupid, meaningless words. And I love the fact that he doesn't write lyrics only for love and all these stupid things that other bands and artists choose to sing about.

[rinu]

Billie's lyrics fit on me most of time and he do it better.

[Mommy's Little Nightmare]

Just wanting to gauge the true feeling about Billie Joe's lyrical ability. I was reading the comments under the news items of 21CB's Lyrics Release and somebody compared him the Bob Dylan and Kurt Cobain.

I've always felt Billie goes a bit over his skis with his lyrics starting with AI. To me it seems like he tries to say profound things, but there is no real point to most of it, or maybe it has meaning to him and he leaves it up to everyone else to come up with their own interpretation. That's all well and good, but that's not a skilled lyricist. He does some nice word play ("Fallen from grace/Right on my face"), but when I think of great lyrics I look at Sting and Maynard of Tool.

I'm not denying Billie can write a killer song, I'm an enormous Green Day fan, but when I saw that comment I had to speak up. He's an average lyricist at best in my opinion. What do you guys think, and be real.

I disagree with pretty much this entire comment. I think that Billie Joe is an incredible lyricist. One of the best, actually.

I love the way he plays around with imagery and double meanings, and all that stuff. I think that he puts everything he has into lyrics, and yet... they're still relatable to almost everyone. To be honest, I think you're one of the few people that thinks his lyrics has no point, and doesn't relate to them.

He can say so much with so little. However, I will agree that he leaves some things to anyone's interpretation, which I find to be another good quality. That his lyrics can hold different meaning to different people, as well as the same meaning to so many others. I disagree that he tries to say something profound but there's no point. I think his points are always crystal clear. I love the way he puts things so bluntly, but still manages to make his songs almost... visual.

[Beathe.]

I like his lyrics, but he isn't the best.

Kurt Cobain's lyrics were shit.

Hell yeah.

[DeJennsitized]

Well, Billie's definately one of my favourite songwriters. There's something about listening to his early lyrics that's really endearing, and then hearing the difference in his ability as he gets older and more experienced with songwriting.

As someone already mentioned, I love the double meanings, metaphors and symbolism in his writing. Some of my favourite lyrics for this is "I drank a six pack of apathy" from The Grouch, "throw my emotions in the grave" from Burnout, "I stand laughing on the corner of insignificance" from Stuart and the Ave, and "economy sized dreams of hope" from Macy's Day Parade. They all have some sort of symbolism in some form or another, and it's that kind of thing that I find really clever in Billie Joe's lyrics. It makes you think about the possible double meanings and what he could possibly have meant when he put a particular word or phrase in a song.

I also love the way he's written about pretty much every topic imaginable, including love, war, regret, depression, loneliness, nostalgia and hope.

I find it interesting to pick apart the lyrics, more than any other artist I listen to, and trust me, I have a lot of artists on my iPod. Many of them have one specific topic they write about more than any other, such as MCR's fixation with death, Blink-182's focus on love and Nirvana's decidedly nonsensical lyrics. I enjoy Green Day's lyrics more because no matter what I'm feeling, there's always a song to identify with.

[/personal opinion]

[Blueisme]

I agree.

AMEN!

[arrie44]

Well, Billie's definately one of my favourite songwriters. There's something about listening to his early lyrics that's really endearing, and then hearing the difference in his ability as he gets older and more experienced with songwriting.

As someone already mentioned, I love the double meanings, metaphors and symbolism in his writing. Some of my favourite lyrics for this is "I drank a six pack of apathy" from The Grouch, "throw my emotions in the grave" from Burnout, "I stand laughing on the corner of insignificance" from Stuart and the Ave, and "economy sized dreams of hope" from Macy's Day Parade. They all have some sort of symbolism in some form or another, and it's that kind of thing that I find really clever in Billie Joe's lyrics. It makes you think about the possible double meanings and what he could possibly have meant when he put a particular word or phrase in a song.

I also love the way he's written about pretty much every topic imaginable, including love, war, regret, depression, loneliness, nostalgia and hope.

I find it interesting to pick apart the lyrics, more than any other artist I listen to, and trust me, I have a lot of artists on my iPod. Many of them have one specific topic they write about more than any other, such as MCR's fixation with death, Blink-182's focus on love and Nirvana's decidedly nonsensical lyrics. I enjoy Green Day's lyrics more because no matter what I'm feeling, there's always a song to identify with.

[/personal opinion]

You'll notice that all the songs you referenced are pre-AI. That was kind of my whole point, it seems to me that he has been extending himself a little too far lyrically on these last 2 albums. His early lyrics that came from his personal feelings and angst are what connected me to Green Day 15 years ago. I can remember when Insomniac came out, whenever I was upset or having a hard time I always knew I could pop that CD in and Billie would be pissed off right with me! I wish he would go back to that instead of the "story telling" he's been trying to do lately. I sound like I'm taking a dump on Billie, believe me I'm not, American Idiot is AMAZING, my only point is lyrically I think less is more for Billie.

And I don't want to hear that tired "Billie is moving forward, not backward!" crap, I'm saying know yourself and do what you do best. That's not going backward.

[justcause]

I will admit, I'm not as familiar with Bob Dylan as a lot of others. I know he's written hundreds of songs, and not all have been about protesting, those were mostly in the '60s/'70s.

I think also it's kind of stupid not to include other great songwriters in the discussion. Dylan and Cobain may not be the greatest. There's Bruce Springsteen, John Mellencamp, and a lot of others. But like I said, it's hard to compare the different generations.

But in terms of modern day, there is no question Billie Joe Armstrong is in the upper-tier of songwriters. His songs are built on story and substance, while most bands today will write 10 songs about how much they love sex, hate relationships and drink a lot and put it out as an album.

As regards who's the greatest - well, this is not a title-fight. I also don't think of music in terms of generations, except in the sense that each generation seems to need to hear stuff in their own 'voice'. Case in point is Working Class Hero - even though it's John's song, some people relate to it better when it's coming from Billie Joe. He, on the other hand, is hearing John loud and clear, and relating that vision to his own life in 21CB.

I agree with what you say about 'story and substance' as regards Billie Joe's writing, and I'd add what's for me the most important element of all - the constant search for truth and meaning.

[GreenPunkPrincess]

Billie Joe is fuckin' good with lyrics, he can transforms banal concepts in poetry!

Btw, I fall in love with the lyrics of Last Night On Heart

[Kate Austen]

You'll notice that all the songs you referenced are pre-AI. That was kind of my whole point, it seems to me that he has been extending himself a little too far lyrically on these last 2 albums. His early lyrics that came from his personal feelings and angst are what connected me to Green Day 15 years ago. I can remember when Insomniac came out, whenever I was upset or having a hard time I always knew I could pop that CD in and Billie would be pissed off right with me! I wish he would go back to that instead of the "story telling" he's been trying to do lately. I sound like I'm taking a dump on Billie, believe me I'm not, American Idiot is AMAZING, my only point is lyrically I think less is more for Billie.

And I don't want to hear that tired "Billie is moving forward, not backward!" crap, I'm saying know yourself and do what you do best. That's not going backward.

I actually think his writing ability is MUCH better now then it ever was. While I understand the whole "endearing" angle, I still prefer American Idiot + lyrics to the earlier albums. Especially after reading 21st Century, I really think Billie is moving in the right direction.

[J'net]

... and I'd add what's for me the most important element of all - the constant search for truth and meaning.

Exactly! I think Billie's songs are profound, but I don't think he's trying to be profound. I think he's searching for truth and meaning, and he's writing sincere songs that are based on things he observes around him - things he feels strongly about for whatever reason (his love for Adrienne, his fear of where the modern world is headed, etc.). Over time, some of the things he feels strongly about have changed, which gives his songs a different focus and a different relevance. Maybe they become less relevant for some people who have evolved in different directions. They have continued to become more relevant for me.

[Mommy's Little Nightmare]

You'll notice that all the songs you referenced are pre-AI. That was kind of my whole point, it seems to me that he has been extending himself a little too far lyrically on these last 2 albums. His early lyrics that came from his personal feelings and angst are what connected me to Green Day 15 years ago. I can remember when Insomniac came out, whenever I was upset or having a hard time I always knew I could pop that CD in and Billie would be pissed off right with me! I wish he would go back to that instead of the "story telling" he's been trying to do lately. I sound like I'm taking a dump on Billie, believe me I'm not, American Idiot is AMAZING, my only point is lyrically I think less is more for Billie.

And I don't want to hear that tired "Billie is moving forward, not backward!" crap, I'm saying know yourself and do what you do best. That's not going backward.

The thing with AI is that Billie's said that it's not necessarily about him, but it all comes from a place that he's been or an emotion he's felt. They are still his feelings, and while still less personal, I believe just as relatable.

Take for example "The motto was just a lie. It says 'Home is Where Your Heart Is,' but what a shame, 'cause everyone's heart doesn't beat the same." Who, growing up, has never felt alienated from their home life and felt as though they just didn't belong there?

Boulevard of Broken Dreams- who's never felt alone?

Are We The Waiting?- "This dirty town was burning down in my dreams." I KNOW I've felt like that. You hate the place you're in, and you just want out. This has the symbolism that I love so much, and the multiple meanings.

St. Jimmy- "I'm a teenage assassin executing some fun." There's those witty plays on words that Billie loves to do.

There's also Wake Me Up When September Ends. I don't think anyone can argue that's one of the most personal songs Billie Joe has ever written.

I could really keep going, but I think I'm going to leave it at that. I don't think Billie's best songwriting is behind him, and I still think he has everything that he always did and more. While he may have written about characters and a storyline now, he's kept his style, and if you listen close enough- I think you'll find the things that seem to resonate and relate to so many people are still there. And I think that's a big part of why it blew up the way it did.

[drumstick]

The only thing I want to say is that Billie is the best song writer EVER!

[Joey]

The only thing I want to say is that Billie is the best song writer EVER!

He very much isn't.

[J'net]

The thing with AI is that Billie's said that it's not necessarily about him, but it all comes from a place that he's been or an emotion he's felt. They are still his feelings, and while still less personal, I believe just as relatable.

Take for example "The motto was just a lie. It says 'Home is Where Your Heart Is,' but what a shame, 'cause everyone's heart doesn't beat the same." Who, growing up, has never felt alienated from their home life and felt as though they just didn't belong there?

Boulevard of Broken Dreams- who's never felt alone?

Are We The Waiting?- "This dirty town was burning down in my dreams." I KNOW I've felt like that. You hate the place you're in, and you just want out. This has the symbolism that I love so much, and the multiple meanings.

St. Jimmy- "I'm a teenage assassin executing some fun." There's those witty plays on words that Billie loves to do.

I could really keep going, but I think I'm going to leave it at that. I don't think Billie's best songwriting is behind him, and I still think he has everything that he always did. While he may have written about characters and a storyline now, he's kept his style, and if you listen close enough- I think you'll find the things that seem to resonate and relate to so many people are still there. And I think that's a big part of why it blew up the way it did.

And coming almost word-for-word from personal experience:

"And nobody cares,

And nobody cares,

Does anyone care if nobody cares?,

And nobody cares,

And nobody cares,

Does anyone care if nobody cares?,

Jesus is filling out paperwork now,

At the facility on east 12th st,

He's not listening to a word now,

He's in his own world,

And he's daydreaming.

He'd rather be doing something else now,

Like cigarettes and coffee with the underbelly.

His wife's on the line with anxiety now,

She's had enough,

And he's had plenty

Somebody get me out of here,

Anybody get me out of here,

Somebody get me out of here,

Get me the fuck right out of here

So far away,

I don't want to stay,

Get me outta here right now,

I just wanna be free,

Is there a possibility,

Get me out of here right now,

This life like dream ain't for me. " The delivery of this last line is brilliant, too!

And the lyrics of JOS - blow me away, and obviously come from a very personal place.