Billie Joe's lyrical ability

[justcause]

Now that's the response I've been waiting for .

I kept it short.

[J'net]

I kept it short.

I know you did . You could easily write a book on this topic alone.

[marie1986]

BJ is great at writing about rage, how unhappy he is with the way our world is.

i hope this new album speaks to me like AI did

[Starbug]

Yeah the lyrics pre-AI was when I thought he was at his best, especially Insomniac and Dookie. I feel like with AI and this new one he saw how much they were advancing musically and felt he had to make the lyrics match that same level, and he couldn't really do it. A good example of some of his best work is Fashion Victim, very clever and cool lyrics and a very direct point to it.

Fashion Victim is one of my least favorite songs lol but I get your point. Dookie is absolutely my favorite album, but the lyrics from AI touched me, too. hell, there are multiple songs off of each album that do that... so far, however, I haven't read any from the new ones that have spoken to me yet, except maybe Murder City (but then, I've actually heard that song). But then, it might be a completely different story once I hear the music, and get the feel of each song. That makes a world of difference.

[The Disappearing Boy]

to me i can't relate to hardly any lyrics. they just don't make sense to me at all. that either means he is a great lyricist, anawful one, or i am just stupid. but i tend to lean towards the first one.

[Ally]

A lot of the songs some of the songs i relate so stongly to, others i don't, i think hes a great lyricist, obvious they're is probably better but i think hes fab

[communitykid]

I've been thinking about things like that a lot recently...

I think Warning is where they really started going downhill. Not tremendously, no, but a bit.

He just started to seem like he was trying more to write a catchy song then to express feeling.

Truth be told, I think some of the best writing is very simplistic and sticks to little words.

[KeRpLuNkXxX]

To me Insomniac is extremly powerful when it comes to lyrics, they are just soo angry and deep and sarcastic, I love that.

I will not say Billie Joe is the greatest songwriter in the world but he is one of the bests, at least for me. He has touched me deep inside with his words and I love the way he plays with them, he has a lot of potencial and has evolve through the years. Even in 1039/SOSH he showed he was different at writing songs. He is unique.

There are a lot of bands nowadays which don't transmit anything with their lyrics or just make music without giving lyrics the right impotance.

(sorry for my bad English... )

[Starbug]

I'm a lyric lover. When I listen to songs, I always pay good attention to the lyrics, and that's entirely Billie Joe's fault Waaay back, 15 years ago, I just threw myself into the Dookie lyric booklet, and have ever since. He's a brilliant lyricist, and I think he's way underrated, in pop culture, because of A-the type of music they play and B-The fact they're so popular. But BJ is so smart, he's so clever w/ his wordplay, and no one can argue that. Maybe there are better lyricists out there currently, but I can't think of many.

[RebelofSuburbia]

I think for me personally, Billie's lyrics are one of the main reasons Green Day stands out above any other band I listen to.

I think it's absolutely wonderful how he can say so many things with so little words and still knows how to keep simplicity in his songs. It's actually quite hard to put down in words why I think he's an amazing songwriter, but I agree with a lot of things everyone has said in this topic. I also love the fact that the lyrics are pretty clear to me most of the time, but still have some sort of poetic quality to them.

There's other bands out there that have great poetical lyrics that don't speak to me as much and of which I never quite understand their meaning.

[pooldude256]

I don't think you can compare any of them. They are all from different eras and have different styles. Dylan wrote protest songs. Cobain wrote songs with no particular meaning. Billie Joe writes about stuff (mostly) that's personal to him. 3 different generations though, really, in terms of music at least. So to compare them is pretty hard.

I think they are all one of the best of their time. If you asked me to say 1) Dylan 2) Armstrong 3) Cobain. Cobain would be last simply because he only wrote like 3 albums. But like I said, it's hard to compare because they are in different eras. In Dylan's era there was a lot of similar anti-war songs. With Cobain his band pioneered grunge. And today alternative is the big thing.

[JAS0N]

Just wanting to gauge the true feeling about Billie Joe's lyrical ability. I was reading the comments under the news items of 21CB's Lyrics Release and somebody compared him the Bob Dylan and Kurt Cobain.

I've always felt Billie goes a bit over his skis with his lyrics starting with AI. To me it seems like he tries to say profound things, but there is no real point to most of it, or maybe it has meaning to him and he leaves it up to everyone else to come up with their own interpretation. That's all well and good, but that's not a skilled lyricist. He does some nice word play ("Fallen from grace/Right on my face"), but when I think of great lyrics I look at Sting and Maynard of Tool.

I'm not denying Billie can write a killer song, I'm an enormous Green Day fan, but when I saw that comment I had to speak up. He's an average lyricist at best in my opinion. What do you guys think, and be real.

While I personally don't agree at all (even Spin called him "one of America's most important songwriters" or something like that), your certainly entitled to that opinion. I think Billie's done an amazing job on both AI and 21CB at portraying whats happening in the world when he wrote those songs. Perhaps if you provide an example of a song or particular lyrics that your referring to i'd have a better idea of what your talking about.

[chewychorizo]

He's not my fave, and his lyrics don't speak to me the way the lyricists from my other favourite bands do, like Michael Stipe or Adam Duritz.

However i agree with the fact that he's a great lyricist.

[arrie44]

While I personally don't agree at all (even Spin called him "one of America's most important songwriters" or something like that), your certainly entitled to that opinion. I think Billie's done an amazing job on both AI and 21CB at portraying whats happening in the world when he wrote those songs. Perhaps if you provide an example of a song or particular lyrics that your referring to i'd have a better idea of what your talking about.

No doubt he is maybe the best songwriter covering 2 full decades, which puts him up there as one of the best of all time, but lyrics are just one piece of song writing. His music writing and melodies are top notch, especially for people with A.D.D. like me

A good example of what I mean is a song like Coming Clean vs. Murder City. Coming Clean is simple yet has great word play and a purposeful meaning. I'm looking at Murder City...and while it sounds great and I know I'll love it, there nothing profound or meaningful there.

I should probably cut him some slack because the last 2 are concept albums that has a story arc that may not lend to really meaningful songs. I can even remember watching the AI Storytellers on VH1, people would ask questions about the lyrics and Billie would look completely dumbfounded. I remember thinking, did you even write these lyrics or not?? Mike and Tre would jump in and bail him out a couple times!!

[justcause]

I don't think you can compare any of them. They are all from different eras and have different styles. Dylan wrote protest songs. Cobain wrote songs with no particular meaning. Billie Joe writes about stuff (mostly) that's personal to him. 3 different generations though, really, in terms of music at least. So to compare them is pretty hard.

I think they are all one of the best of their time. If you asked me to say 1) Dylan 2) Armstrong 3) Cobain. Cobain would be last simply because he only wrote like 3 albums. But like I said, it's hard to compare because they are in different eras. In Dylan's era there was a lot of similar anti-war songs. With Cobain his band pioneered grunge. And today alternative is the big thing.

Have to disagree with your take on Dylan - protest songs may be what he's most famous for, but he writes about his own life, also. Two songs written about his relationship with his then-wife Sara, for instance, are 'Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands' from Blonde on Blonde and 'Sara' from Desire. 'She Belongs to Me' is about Joan Baez, and there are various others. When he was Christian for a while, he wrote the album 'Slow Train Coming' about that.

[Guest Billy]

Just wanting to gauge the true feeling about Billie Joe's lyrical ability. I was reading the comments under the news items of 21CB's Lyrics Release and somebody compared him the Bob Dylan and Kurt Cobain.

I've always felt Billie goes a bit over his skis with his lyrics starting with AI. To me it seems like he tries to say profound things, but there is no real point to most of it, or maybe it has meaning to him and he leaves it up to everyone else to come up with their own interpretation. That's all well and good, but that's not a skilled lyricist. He does some nice word play ("Fallen from grace/Right on my face"), but when I think of great lyrics I look at Sting and Maynard of Tool.

I'm not denying Billie can write a killer song, I'm an enormous Green Day fan, but when I saw that comment I had to speak up. He's an average lyricist at best in my opinion. What do you guys think, and be real.

you're absolutely right about Billie. he's not great, i mean in all reality he's trying to live up to the legacy of the Dead Kennedys's lyrics; infact, their music isn't rough enough to get that kind of sound. DK was a hardcore, thrash punk band, but Green Day is a very soft pop-punk band. that's like switching Anti-Flag's lyrics with a Dave Matthew's Band song. it just doesn't work. i don't care if the lyrics do not make sense, because i listen to the White Stripes and a large portion of their songs have no or an unproduced point. Billie Joe makes statements in his lyrics, but doesn't support them. we all do it, so you can't scream at him and tell him he's completely wrong. Billie's average i would say. some of the best lyricists would be Bob Dylan, Conor Oberst, and Eddie Vedder.

I think for me personally, Billie's lyrics are one of the main reasons Green Day stands out above any other band I listen to.

no offense, but you probably do not listen to decent music.

[badwolf]

I don't really care. As long as they make good music I think it's fine.

And if he wants the interpretations of others, that's totally fine with me. I mean, Mike and Tré are in the band too you know?

I highly agree.

[Guest Billy]

To me Insomniac is extremly powerful when it comes to lyrics, they are just soo angry and deep and sarcastic, I love that.

I will not say Billie Joe is the greatest songwriter in the world but he is one of the bests, at least for me. He has touched me deep inside with his words and I love the way he plays with them, he has a lot of potencial and has evolve through the years. Even in 1039/SOSH he showed he was different at writing songs. He is unique.

There are a lot of bands nowadays which don't transmit anything with their lyrics or just make music without giving lyrics the right impotance.

you're completely wrong, look at his lyrics and basic words.

even i can write lyrics Billie Joe wrote, he got better from 1039.

let's take a look at the lyrics, i'll put my iTunes on shuffle and select a song from 1039.

...

"Hey there lookin' at me,

Tell me what do you see.

But, you quickly turn your head away.

I Try to find the words I could use.

Don't have the courage to come up to you.

My chance is looking a bit grey."

now, first starting with a horrible rhyme, someone around age 11 can write those lyrics.

he gets slightly better dropping the bad rhyme game and makes his lyrics a bit clear.

then he ends it with a good symbolic word, "grey." grey is the color of uncertainty.

the symbolism is probably the most profound thing within those lyrics, otherwise they'd be mediocre.

now take a song like warning; while it may not be the best musicially written song, the lyrics are very good.

[KeRpLuNkXxX]

you're completely wrong, look at his lyrics and basic words.

even i can write lyrics Billie Joe wrote, he got better from 1039.

let's take a look at the lyrics, i'll put my iTunes on shuffle and select a song from 1039.

...

"Hey there lookin' at me,

Tell me what do you see.

But, you quickly turn your head away.

I Try to find the words I could use.

Don't have the courage to come up to you.

My chance is looking a bit grey."

now, first starting with a horrible rhyme, someone around age 11 can write those lyrics.

he gets slightly better dropping the bad rhyme game and makes his lyrics a bit clear.

then he ends it with a good symbolic word, "grey." grey is the color of uncertainty.

the symbolism is probably the most profound thing within those lyrics, otherwise they'd be mediocre.

now take a song like warning; while it may not be the best musicially written song, the lyrics are very good.

hmm, I wasn't refering to the whole album... you are right about that verse but to me there are some things in that album that shows some kind of difference in his style, I can't put my finger on those particular things to be honest but they are there for me.

Anyway this was just an opinion, my opinion. :/

On the other hand talking about warning as you said it is a really great song when it comes to lyrics, no doubt about that.

[MrGreenDayUK]

Man, I love Green Day and some lyrics are good, but Dylan? Nah. I defy anyone to listen to 10 mins of Desolation Row and then tell me BJ writes at that level.

Green Day aren't a 'lyric band' for me, they mean other stuff.

[chewychorizo]

you're absolutely right about Billie. he's not great, i mean in all reality he's trying to live up to the legacy of the Dead Kennedys's lyrics; infact, their music isn't rough enough to get that kind of sound. DK was a hardcore, thrash punk band, but Green Day is a very soft pop-punk band. that's like switching Anti-Flag's lyrics with a Dave Matthew's Band song. it just doesn't work. i don't care if the lyrics do not make sense, because i listen to the White Stripes and a large portion of their songs have no or an unproduced point. Billie Joe makes statements in his lyrics, but doesn't support them. we all do it, so you can't scream at him and tell him he's completely wrong. Billie's average i would say. some of the best lyricists would be Bob Dylan, Conor Oberst, and Eddie Vedder.

no offense, but you probably do not listen to decent music.

In fact.

But i agree with Eddie Vedder.

you're completely wrong, look at his lyrics and basic words.

She's hardly wrong, it's her opinion!

[Guest Billy]

She's hardly wrong, it's her opinion!

i do not believe in subjectivity, haha.

[Trotsky]

I mostly judge songs based on lyrics but I make exceptions, like Poprocks and Coke, good song, ridiculously generic lyrics. I think looking at 21st Century Breakdown he tried to dig pretty deep. In general I don't think Green Day tried to be complicated until American Idiot; before that it was simple in music and lyrics and was meant to be.

[Guest Billy]

I mostly judge songs based on lyrics but I make exceptions, like Poprocks and Coke, good song, ridiculously generic lyrics. I think looking at 21st Century Breakdown he tried to dig pretty deep. In general I don't think Green Day tried to be complicated until American Idiot; before that it was simple in music and lyrics and was meant to be.

QFT.

[MrGreenDayUK]

If his lyrics were as good as Dylan's or anyone else of that ilk, I think most people would have recognised that by now. You won't get people talking about AI with the same kind of reverence that's reserved for these people. But that's a given, a pop-punk band doesn't aim to be deep and meaningful, even with the 'mature' stuff they do; might be good but it ain't literary.