Are Green Day Punk?

[justcause]

I agree with this ed, well done.

But, I also agree that arguing over the meaning of punk is stupid and nonsensical. But if you want my personal opinion, I've always thought the first four GD albums were rock-inspired punk music and the last three were punk-inpired rock.

I think that sums the musical aspect of it up very neatly - the first four have all the feel and sound of the kind of metal influences GD cut their teeth on as well as a quota of soft rock and of course The Who - and in my opinion, there was a melodic side from the beginning that just developed progressively over all the albums, rather than first materializing on Nimrod as most people seem to think - that, to me, was the influence of Billie Joe's dad and the music they played together, smooth stuff, Sinatra and whatnot. I can also hear a Beatles influence on Nimrod in the likes of Haushinka - Billie Joe sounds almost like a young McCartney on that one, but I think it's the 'this girl has flown' that brings Norwegian Wood and 'this bird has flown' to mind.

As for the last three, I'm with you as far as Idiot, but when you go there, there are so many influences going on that rock is just one of them, even if it's the strongest overall . Songs like Novacaine and September come across like amped-up acoustic, the rock element turning up the emotional volume - the solo in September is simple but pretty fucking wonderful. Punk shows up with St. Jimmy, appropriately enough, Idiot , and the cool, skirling Clash-thrash of Holiday, among others.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

that's a horrible reply. i wasn't referring to the age, more to the person. what bands do i listen to then, oh wise one? my point was conservative grandmas don't sit around singing along to punk songs, but they do to green day. it's safe and marketable to all people. i don't even know what you were trying to say in that last part, that warner hasn't been sickenly marketing off green day's recent accomplishments because this has happened before? i hope that was sarcasm ...

anyway, talk about the individual members all you want, but music is pretty important to this discussion. and they've never had a punk album, so i don't see how they could be considered a punk band

I was saying the record company is responsible for all the marketing crap. Who ares if conservative grandmas hum along to music? What does that have to do with anything? Nothing as far as I can tell in regards to someone being punk or not. One thing you might not understand is that not all old people like elevator music and opera. They usually like whatever they like, no matter what age they are, however at your wise young age you probably don't know that.

[longview_5]

why do we have 2 have all these labels they r 2 confusing

[Jillie Boe.]

why do we have 2 have all these labels they r 2 confusing

errm not really, we have punk, then we have punk rock. Now we have goth punk, which is usually considered to be bands like AFI. Then again if AFI fitted into that could MCR too, but MCR is usually considerd as punk, rock or alternative. Like Nirvana is considerd as punk rock, but normally it's considerd as grunge. Then we have the white stripes, some people say they are rock, others say they're garage rock some people even say they do blues music. Then there's gnr but i'll stop there.

[Oh Pamela and her five sisters]

i agree with that editorial

[*Megan*]

errm not really, we have punk, then we have punk rock. Now we have goth punk, which is usually considered to be bands like AFI. Then again if AFI fitted into that could MCR too, but MCR is usually considerd as punk, rock or alternative. Like Nirvana is considerd as punk rock, but normally it's considerd as grunge. Then we have the white stripes, some people say they are rock, others say they're garage rock some people even say they do blues music. Then there's gnr but i'll stop there.

Yeah, I think theres way too many genres nowerdays.

[ImnotaDrIjustPlayOneOnTV]

As usual, Angeline, your words amaze me! Your passion and intensity for this band and their music is inspirational and well, just beautiful.

Ditto to what Cheryl said. I did read this awhile back and never got around to leaving a comment. I will say this, I think Green Day is the definition of punk. Doing what you want when you want, making the kind of music that makes you happy, not caring what anyone else may think of you or your music. So if thats what punk means, They are it.

[ImnotaDrIjustPlayOneOnTV]

how can he call himself punk but turn around and say its meant to be underground so it doesnt become watered down? because of green day, bands like simple plan, fall out boy, and ym chemical romance are popularized. that is watering down punk. green day smoothed the path and lead a wave of mediocre and horrible punk acts. and even green day, i think it was either billie or mike (for some reason, tre is void of opinions in the punk matter) said that if they could go back, they wouldnt have taken the major. so, they make an ode to hypocracy whenever they open their mouths. they are the walking contridiction, and they aint got no right to call themselves punk anymore.

They weren't the only ones to "water down" punk as you say. Around the same time Dookie came out there was Offspring and Rancid cds that got a lot of radio and MTV play. Maybe the mediocre bands you mentioned would still be around regardless of Green Days success or maybe Green Day paved the way for them because they were the most successful of the three. So would we have blamed Rancid or Offspring if their albums (at the time) would have been more successful? Guess we'll never know. I own all 3, I know of 2 that are collecting dust and 1 that gets as much play as it did when I bought it, Dookie, it never gets old.

[Compulsive Habits]

Wow, that was really well done. I totally agree!

[Peter.]

oh my...i don't know what to say..it was very very good..

[long_live_greenday]

ooh very well done. I couldn't agree more.

[Rach_Rach]

woow well done that took the words right outta everyone's mouth

i'm so going to quote that

[e-dur]

"[...] YOU GIVE UP SOMETHING TO GET SOMETHING ELSE. GREEN DAY MADE THAT CHOICE, AND I MADE THE CHOICE NOT TO, AND WE BOTH LOST. THEY WONDER IF THEY GAVE UP TOO MUCH. I WONDER IF I GAVE UP TOO LITTLE. WE CAN NEVER REALLY KNOW WHAT WE MIGHT HAVE MISSED. I'VE SAID IT BEFORE, BUT STAYING THE SAME WHILE EVERYTHING AROUND YOU CHANGES ISN'T THE SAME AS STAYING THE SAME. [...]"

Aaron Cometbus, "Despite Everything - What goes down"

[Ash]

yes..becasue matt just told me they are

[justcause]

"[...] YOU GIVE UP SOMETHING TO GET SOMETHING ELSE. GREEN DAY MADE THAT CHOICE, AND I MADE THE CHOICE NOT TO, AND WE BOTH LOST. THEY WONDER IF THEY GAVE UP TOO MUCH. I WONDER IF I GAVE UP TOO LITTLE. WE CAN NEVER REALLY KNOW WHAT WE MIGHT HAVE MISSED. I'VE SAID IT BEFORE, BUT STAYING THE SAME WHILE EVERYTHING AROUND YOU CHANGES ISN'T THE SAME AS STAYING THE SAME. [...]"

Aaron Cometbus, "Despite Everything - What goes down"

What a beautiful mind. What he says with such lovely clarity shows me the most poignant picture of all these young guys, living in hardship, nothing going for them but their talent and their hearts, and who, when they were offered all the world on a platter, agonized not over what would be the biggest deal they could get, but whether or not it was the right thing to do.

For Green Day not to have brought their music to the biggest audience possible would have been wrong, totally wrong. Some art is meant for the small-scale and the intimate, other art is meant to be shouted from the rooftops, and only the person who is the engine of this art knows which it is to be. The punk scene sought to make that decision for the artist, to make rules and tame what can't be legislated for or held back - the product of an individual's creative core, and its place in the world.

"Staying the same while everything around you changes isn't the same as staying the same" - once Green Day had been offered the opportunity to bring their music to a wider audience - and to stop being poor! - things had changed. Even if they'd said no, things would have changed for them - they'd still be in a different place, in the knowledge of what they'd set aside. I often think to myself that for Billie Joe particularly, the easier thing would have been to say no, and not to be torn away from the people and the scene he loved, and to have his life turned upside-down. I remember he quoted Adrienne one time saying she could see how happy he was when he was just one-on-one with people in a smaller scene, dancing and having a laugh - 'you were in your element', is what she said.

Life punished him terribly for the decision he took, when all he had done was all he ever does - make his music to the highest possible standards, and give it to people; he's said that he would have done it for nothing, and I totally believe him - it's who he is.

I think that in Aaron's last line, he's saying that he himself tried to stay the same - and to me, that's never the right choice, you have to go forward all the time, because that's how life flows. You make the best decision you can at the time, and commit yourself to that course; if something better comes along, change your course again. The decisions keep coming, thick and fast, and you have to fucking embrace what life offers to you, or stay in some kind of arrested development.

The boys who struggled with those hard decisions are in their mid-thirties now, still burning with ideals and creativity; Billie's still on the same road he started on, all those years ago - 'the only one that I have ever known' - and I don't think they really lost anything. Some things were wilfully taken away from them by the resentment of their peers - but if it was ever real, it couldn't be taken away, and maybe the feeling of loss Aaron talks about lies in finding out what's real and what's not real after all.

Billie Joe's a wise man, and his wisdom is all hard-bought, so it hits hard when he delivers it; knowing what you can rely on in this world, in this life - one light, one mind.

"This above all: to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou cans't not be false to any man "

Great minds think alike, and they flash in the dark.

[goodday]

I remember he quoted Adrienne one time saying she could see how happy he was when he was just one-on-one with people in a smaller scene, dancing and having a laugh - 'you were in your element', is what she said.

Life punished him terribly for the decision he took, when all he had done was all he ever does - make his music to the highest possible standards, and give it to people; he's said that he would have done it for nothing, and I totally believe him - it's who he is.

oh, beautiful pic of him...

[e-dur]

[...]Billie's still on the same road he started on, all those years ago - 'the only one that I have ever known' - and I don't think they really lost anything. [...]

are you sure about that? I am sure the difference is pretty obvious:

maybe nothing??? maybe everything???

but ...surely, in the end it all comes down to a matter of haircut... lol!

[Trotsky]

Punk itself is the perfect mix of not giving a fuck and caring about the world at the same time. Though they are on a thin line, I'd say Green Day are punk.

[BitterSweetMigraine]

I really love green day but to say they are punk makes no sence. really.

you can say them pop punk but NOT punk. Punk are Sex Pistols. NOT green day. Just NOT.

-the end.

I know it's your opinion, but the Sex Pistols aren't punk.

They were a fashion statement, and they got money out of it! They ruined chances for other real punk bands, by puking their guts out on stage, and strangelation and shit like that, they thought they would be "LIKE REAL PUNKS"....but I don't think they were, they started the whole clothing thing, and made a couple albums, which I don't think are shit, but they're not my favorite albums either. They can still live off their money they've made back than by puking and gauging out each others eyeballs! They all live in Beverly Hills now, if you think thats punk...I don't know, but it's just not.

Sorry if I sound mean but that's what I think...I think the Ramones were and are still real punk.

[ness65au]

Justcause your words are truely amazing. They come straight from your heart and gut and hit me straight in mine.

I sometimes wonder myself ,when all the kids that got into Green Day then went on looking for more music especially from the Guys backgrounds and spent their cash on the bands on Indie labels did the Bands turn around and say no to the xtra royalties Green Day provided. Or all the other bands that got a start on Lookout solely from Green Days Royalties. The list is endless, from the Indie bands having extra cash so they could afford more gigs more studio time, to having money to set up independent zines.

I enjoyed the first cycle of punk in the late seventies it was my religion to. But there was no moaning about selling out. It was all about getting the music out there, so your voice and opinions could be heard. And if Im not mistaken all the Known Punk Bands from that generation were on mainstream labels.

Punk is about following whats in your heart and head and being true to yourself. You cant put a label on that.

And Green Day have never been anything put true to themselves and on their own terms!

[justcause]

Justcause your words are truely amazing. They come straight from your heart and gut and hit me straight in mine.

I sometimes wonder myself ,when all the kids that got into Green Day then went on looking for more music especially from the Guys backgrounds and spent their cash on the bands on Indie labels did the Bands turn around and say no to the xtra royalties Green Day provided. Or all the other bands that got a start on Lookout solely from Green Days Royalties. The list is endless, from the Indie bands having extra cash so they could afford more gigs more studio time, to having money to set up independent zines.

I enjoyed the first cycle of punk in the late seventies it was my religion to. But there was no moaning about selling out. It was all about getting the music out there, so your voice and opinions could be heard. And if Im not mistaken all the Known Punk Bands from that generation were on mainstream labels.

Punk is about following whats in your heart and head and being true to yourself. You cant put a label on that.

And Green Day have never been anything put true to themselves and on their own terms!

Thanx for what you said - yes, it's from my heart, and my heart is a fucking open book, especially where Green Day are concerned, because that's what they inspire in me. I can write about anything, I can pretty much sell ya whatever I want to sell ya - but there's one catch to it - I have to believe in what I'm saying, and I believe in Green Day.

It little matters to me what anyone else says or thinx about them, because it's my own heart keeping its counsel, and my gut telling where things are at. They don't even defend themselves from this shit at this stage in the game, maybe they're sick of the whole thing, and who could blame them - but when I see unworthy shit being hurled at them, I wanna say, fuck this - can't you see what's real?

In a world of sham music and shallow emotion, Green Day give it all, with total integrity - they're true artists, however they're sold by the corporates.

What you said about the bands on LookOut and the Indie bands who benefitted is true - and when I hear criticism of Green Day, it isn't generally coming from that quarter - anyone who's ever struggled in the arts, actors, painters, whatever - would never be the people to throw stones at them, because they know it's fucking hard! This stuff is normally coming from so-called fans, who start off liking something about a band, and then want that band to conform to their idea of where they should be going with it.

And you're right, that mentality, that kind of rule-making crap, didn't exist in the first wave of punk - people were just interested in expression, there was a generosity of spirit that seems to me to be lacking now. Green Day, to me, belong to that original punk spirit, and I call it as I see it, and as I feel it.

What I feel is that you say yes to what life offers you, and you keep on saying yes - I'm glad that Green Day do that too, glad that because they do, an album called American Idiot exists.

[goodday]

Thanx for what you said - yes, it's from my heart, and my heart is a fucking open book, especially where Green Day are concerned, because that's what they inspire in me. I can write about anything, I can pretty much sell ya whatever I want to sell ya - but there's one catch to it - I have to believe in what I'm saying, and I believe in Green Day.

It little matters to me what anyone else says or thinx about them, because it's my own heart keeping its counsel, and my gut telling where things are at. They don't even defend themselves from this shit at this stage in the game, maybe they're sick of the whole thing, and who could blame them - but when I see unworthy shit being hurled at them, I wanna say, fuck this - can't you see what's real?

.......

I'm glad that Green Day do that too, glad that because they do, an album called American Idiot exists.

Thats why you always amaze me and so Billie: all come from your heart, you believe on it and you "don't feel any shame won't apologize" for feel and see like that

yeah, thanks gods for AI exist

[longview_5]

That was an AMAZING article very well written. But my definition of punk would be green day they don’t care about others and what they think, and they do what they want. I mean when the came out with American idiot and they totally bashed bush that took tons of guts and it made them loose so many fans but then again gain alot too, But they don’t go around saying people are posers and labeling people. To me a poser is someone who calls someone else a poser if you are who you are I think u can label yourself I mean preppy people call go and label themselves and its ok but if someone says well im punk then they get poser thrown at them but like I said the real non punk/poser if the one who labels others posers. And punk is not ohh I hate the government and im more rebellious then you its just you are who you are and you are proud of it. And that is how green day is and that’s punk in my mind.

p.s. here is a very good ouote by kurt cobain that really describes what i mean

"Punk is musical freedom. It's saying, doing and playing what you want. In Webster's terms, 'nirvana' means freedom from pain, suffering and the external world, and that's pretty close to my definition of Punk Rock." - Kurt Cobain

Sorry for any spelling,grammar,and wording mistakes i am horriable at typing

[ness65au]

Justcause Im with you all the way. My wording on the Lookout etc was proberly wrong I meant it more as looking to the followers of the scenes. They are the ultimate winners from Green Days success dribbling back to them.

The guys give us their souls they never sold nothing.

Do you write poetry or songs?

[justcause]

Justcause Im with you all the way. My wording on the Lookout etc was proberly wrong I meant it more as looking to the followers of the scenes. They are the ultimate winners from Green Days success dribbling back to them.

The guys give us their souls they never sold nothing.

Do you write poetry or songs?

I write everything, I'm pretty prolific.