New Song: "Here Comes the Shock"

[pacejunkie punk]

34 minutes ago, Gonzalo17 said:

I like the punk vibe of the Song and the video... Manu people here forgot that Green Day used to be a punk rock band

Not saying it’s the best punk song but I do think a lot of people are not getting the fact that this is actually a punk song at its core (and a lot of classic punk was simplistic crap so there you go). This definitely isn’t an experimental departure similar to FOAM. 

[Little Boy Named Booze]

9 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

Not saying it’s the best punk song but I do think a lot of people are not getting the fact that this is actually a punk song at its core (and a lot of classic punk was simplistic crap so there you go). This definitely isn’t an experimental departure similar to FOAM. 

The song is too deep for me I can't understand it 😂

[Guest]

22 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

If this song would not have come out under the old deal, I have to wonder would we have gotten American Idiot if not for Warner deciding C&V wasn’t good enough?  There is an article that describes Rob C being sent by his bosses to Billie’s house to ask him if it was their best work and to be honest with himself so this is public knowledge.  Without Warner (or any quality control that is not your closest family and friends that are afraid to critique you) they might have just put out C&V and been done with it. So there are pros and cons when it comes to artistic freedom going forward. It’s hard to judge your own work.

I agree that it is very hard to judge your own work. However, as far as American Idiot, I always felt that that album was them kinda cutting loose and deciding to just put out what they wanted, since they really had nowhere to go but up after Warning. It was an experiment that could have gone either way, but they believed in it and it worked out. I think there is an important lesson in there about doing the things you believe in rather than what is expected of you--doing what you believe in is the only true thing that leads to success. 

Anyway, do you or @Beerjeezus have evidence of him being unable to take criticism? He seems to be a perfectionist to me, and that can go hand-in-hand with struggling with criticism since you can feel like the criticism just reinforces your own inadequacies, but I don't have hard evidence. I don't really see him as someone who would just surround himself with yes people. 

Also I fear we might fall down a rabbit hole of psychoanalysis here, so maybe this convo is not worth pursuing out of respect for not speculating LOL.

[pacejunkie punk]

53 minutes ago, BillieMyLove said:

I agree that it is very hard to judge your own work. However, as far as American Idiot, I always felt that that album was them kinda cutting loose and deciding to just put out what they wanted, since they really had nowhere to go but up after Warning. It was an experiment that could have gone either way, but they believed in it and it worked out. I think there is an important lesson in there about doing the things you believe in rather than what is expected of you--doing what you believe in is the only true thing that leads to success. 

Anyway, do you or @Beerjeezus have evidence of him being unable to take criticism? He seems to be a perfectionist to me, and that can go hand-in-hand with struggling with criticism since you can feel like the criticism just reinforces your own inadequacies, but I don't have hard evidence. I don't really see him as someone who would just surround himself with yes people. 

Also I fear we might fall down a rabbit hole of psychoanalysis here, so maybe this convo is not worth pursuing out of respect for not speculating LOL.

It almost broke the band up in the nineties and this is public knowledge too, that Billie couldn’t take all the criticism Mike and Tre were dishing out to the point where he was reluctant to bring songs to them for fear of their reaction and his growing lack of self confidence.  Also, listen to the way he rants about message boards in HLAHG (“See? They get in your head the little pricks they’re like gremlins!”). 

I don’t have exact interviews to point you to I can never find them easily again, but he has also always been his harshest critic.

“My mother said to me/you’re gonna have your enemies, don’t beg, don’t follow

I’ve heard it all before/I’ve smashed my fingers in the door, my downward spiral”

[Little Boy Named Booze]

Billie Joe literally can't handle criticism.
He act like a baby sometime when he reply to some criticism or even on Instagram.

[Hermione]

Like, there's some bits and pieces in interviews etc that can give us some indication of how Billie is with criticism. But unless you're his psychiatrist or at the very least know him you're not going to be able to paint a very accurate picture of his specific attitude to song criticism at this specific time. So lets not have a psychoanalysis session please.

[Little Boy Named Booze]

2 minutes ago, Hermione said:

Like, there's some bits and pieces in interviews etc that can give us some indication of how Billie is with criticism. But unless you're his psychiatrist or at the very least know him you're not going to be able to paint a very accurate picture of his specific attitude to song criticism at this specific time. So lets not have a psychoanalysis session please.

Nah I know but let just say overall Billie isn't good with criticism with what we (the public) know of him. I'm not gonna go further than that because I don't know anything else. I'm just judging by his interviews and Instagram replies.

[pacejunkie punk]

6 minutes ago, Little Boy Named Booze said:

Nah I know but let just say overall Billie isn't good with criticism with what we (the public) know of him. I'm not gonna go further than that because I don't know anything else. I'm just judging by his interviews and Instagram replies.

This. That’s why I stuck with what was already out there

[Beerjeezus]

1 hour ago, BillieMyLove said:

Anyway, do you or @Beerjeezus have evidence of him being unable to take criticism? He seems to be a perfectionist to me, and that can go hand-in-hand with struggling with criticism since you can feel like the criticism just reinforces your own inadequacies, but I don't have hard evidence. I don't really see him as someone who would just surround himself with yes people. 

Also I fear we might fall down a rabbit hole of psychoanalysis here, so maybe this convo is not worth pursuing out of respect for not speculating LOL.

I’d take Aaron Cometbus’ word for it but there are also interviews where they talked about it themselves (the band almost broke up because Billie couldn’t handle that the guys thought he was writing subpar songs.

39 minutes ago, Little Boy Named Booze said:

Billie Joe literally can't handle criticism.
He act like a baby sometime when he reply to some criticism or even on Instagram.

And this.

[redline punk]

I hope you have realized why the lyrics of this song are like this. Billie doesn't want to forget the lyrics anymore, there are many songs to remember

[Little Boy Named Booze]

2 minutes ago, Flashing in the dark said:

I hope you have realized why the lyrics of this song are like this. Billie doesn't want to forget the lyrics anymore, there are many songs to remember

LOL! Soon to be 50. Watch out alzheimer!

[Clockwise]

I'm actually liking this song more and more with each listen. It's a fun little earworm.

[pacejunkie punk]

54 minutes ago, Clockwise said:

I'm actually liking this song more and more with each listen. It's a fun little earworm.

I certainly don’t hate it like I did on first listen but it’s only gone up slightly with repeated listens. I still can’t stand the momentum stops and vocal effect that is overused in their songs and don’t get me started on the line snort.  Except to say this:

I just listened to @TheNimrodsPodcast for this song and they raised a really good point about why this bothers them too. Green Day have always been a drugs band and wrote about it frequently but it was never glorified. It was always in the context of “I do this but I admit it’s a problem and I’m a mess”.  

All the coke stuff from FOAM to this feels very different. First, it does seem to be glorified as part of the rock and roll aesthetic and second, it’s no longer being written and sung by a young guy, but a middle aged guy post rehab. It’s not being presented as a problem so are we supposed to think it’s cool?  The point they made in the podcast was, for the first time Green Day sounds inauthentic. And really that’s better than the alternative, which is you have a near 50 year old guy post rehab doing coke and thinks it’s rock and roll.  So it’s either inauthentic or concerning, neither option is good, either way it makes the music hard to enjoy.

This is a stark contrast to the way he wrote about drug use as recently as in The Longshot songs, which was very authentic. He clearly wrote about missing those days when he partied and that it was right that he stopped but sad at the same time. That’s fair and feels real. So what is he trying to say now? 

[Little Boy Named Booze]

16 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

He clearly wrote about missing those days when he partied and that it was right that he stopped but sad at the same time. That’s fair and feels real. So what is he trying to say now? 

Wow I really like this quote. It's okay that he partied back in the days when they were young. I mean every rockstars did it lol.
But you're not young forever. And thinking cocaine is still ''cool'' at 49 years old is strange for me.

I'm repeating myself but I think Deryck Whibley is the best example of a guy who used to party like fuck and finally accepted that this time in his life is over. And we can see this in their last two albums.

[Clockwise]

27 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

This is a stark contrast to the way he wrote about drug use as recently as in The Longshot songs, which was very authentic. He clearly wrote about missing those days when he partied and that it was right that he stopped but sad at the same time. That’s fair and feels real. So what is he trying to say now? 

I pretty much agree with you on this. I really didn't see it as a problem with the FOAM photoshoot/references on the album or whatever. I really thought that was blown out of proportion tbh. But the snort on this song makes me cringe because it does feel inauthentic to what I know Green Day to be. Like I said before, it makes me feel the exact same way as the Makeout Party vignette in Cuatro did. Just kinda yucky.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Little Boy Named Booze said:

Wow I really like this quote. It's okay that he partied back in the days when they were young. I mean every rockstars did it lol.
But you're not young forever. And thinking cocaine is still ''cool'' at 49 years old is strange for me.

I'm repeating myself but I think Deryck Whibley is the best example of a guy who used to party like fuck and finally accepted that this time in his life is over. And we can see this in their last two albums.

I mean, hopefully you learn and grow as you get older and everyone does dumb stuff when they are young, but I would not say cocaine is good at any age LOL. Also, Billie himself seemed to understand the dangers of drugs even when he was young and partying (think "Geek Stink Breath"). Ironically, it wasn't until he was about 40 that the drugs got so out of control that he had to get treatment (which was a really brave thing that we should applaud). 

Anyway, I have lots more to say on all of this later this evening.  

[Little Boy Named Booze]

10 minutes ago, BillieMyLove said:

I mean, hopefully you learn and grow as you get older and everyone does dumb stuff when they are young, but I would not say cocaine is good at any age LOL. Also, Billie himself seems to understand the dangers of drugs even when he was young and partying (think "Geek Stink Breath"). Ironically, it wasn't until he was about 40 that the drugs got so out of control that he had to get treatment (which was a really brave thing that we should applaud). 

Anyway, I have lots more to say on all of this later this evening.  

Oh no I agree that cocaine isn't good whatever your age.
But a 50 years old ''celebrating'' cocaine in his song is really cringey. And even tho he went to rehab that was really brave yeah, but he seems to been back to his old roots since FOAM sadly.
 

[Beerjeezus]

2 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

I certainly don’t hate it like I did on first listen but it’s only gone up slightly with repeated listens. I still can’t stand the momentum stops and vocal effect that is overused in their songs and don’t get me started on the line snort.  Except to say this:

I just listened to @TheNimrodsPodcast for this song and they raised a really good point about why this bothers them too. Green Day have always been a drugs band and wrote about it frequently but it was never glorified. It was always in the context of “I do this but I admit it’s a problem and I’m a mess”.  

All the coke stuff from FOAM to this feels very different. First, it does seem to be glorified as part of the rock and roll aesthetic and second, it’s no longer being written and sung by a young guy, but a middle aged guy post rehab. It’s not being presented as a problem so are we supposed to think it’s cool?  The point they made in the podcast was, for the first time Green Day sounds inauthentic. And really that’s better than the alternative, which is you have a near 50 year old guy post rehab doing coke and thinks it’s rock and roll.  So it’s either inauthentic or concerning, neither option is good, either way it makes the music hard to enjoy.

This is a stark contrast to the way he wrote about drug use as recently as in The Longshot songs, which was very authentic. He clearly wrote about missing those days when he partied and that it was right that he stopped but sad at the same time. That’s fair and feels real. So what is he trying to say now? 

I don’t think I was ever able to enunciate this properly, but this is exactly what I don’t like about recent Green Day music. It’s so midlife crisis.

It wouldn’t be as bad if someone young was so hyped for cocaine, because it would be possible to see it as something they’ll grow out of, since that’s how it tends to be with partying, but a man Billie’s age... it just can’t be not cringy. Every single time I can’t help thinking the old man better cool it down before he gives himself a coronary.

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

Wasn't the problem with the Trilogy era booze and prescription drugs (I'm thinking about the Rolling Stone article). It wasn't "other" drugs

[greendepent]

I find it funny how people can consider FOAM fake when I think it has some very dark and honest lyrics. For instance, I never though that BJ was glorifing the that behaviour, but more like how he ended doing so. That's why I like the record so much. It has a high amount of self-inspection that I loved from the very begining.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Little Boy Named Booze said:

Oh no I agree that cocaine isn't good whatever your age.
But a 50 years old ''celebrating'' cocaine in his song is really cringey. And even tho he went to rehab that was really brave yeah, but he seems to been back to his old roots since FOAM sadly.
 

But is this celebrating? That's what I wanted to talk about. I don't really seeing it being "celebrated" in HCTS. It's just kinda randomly in there and I have not figured out the meaning yet. I guess the meaning could hinge on what we take the rest of the song to mean, but I don't really see a celebratory aspect to it. 

I also don't really see drugs celebrated in FOAM. I would call Sugar Youth and Junkies on a High cautionary tales. Feels like the same way he has always talked about drugs: putting the truth out there in a way that is neither preachy nor flattering. 

[Little Boy Named Booze]

1 minute ago, BillieMyLove said:

I have not figured out the meaning yet

Don't forget. Not every Green Day song has a meaning. Sometime Billie don't make any sense.

[pacejunkie punk]

25 minutes ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

Wasn't the problem with the Trilogy era booze and prescription drugs (I'm thinking about the Rolling Stone article). It wasn't "other" drugs

That’s what he finally went to rehab for, but he’s used every recreational drug under the sun to varying degrees over many years. (Unless you’re saying that he didn’t go to rehab for coke and that somehow that makes it okay?)

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Little Boy Named Booze said:

Don't forget. Not every Green Day song has a meaning. Sometime Billie don't make any sense.

I can tell we're about to go in a circle again. 🤣

[Beerjeezus]

Speaking of the coke/alcohol/whatnot stuff, obviously it’s his business and it’s something I want to be respectful about, but at this point, the respectful thing seems to be acknowleding it, because I see no point in criticizing the songs for this kind of lyrical content without any regard for the fact that he’s got a problem with substances, so there’s a fair chance that it’s not just a case of a party-hungry middle aged guy being embarrassing.