Why did Green Day make up the story of C&V being stolen in the first place?

[greendepent]

The main thing of the b-sides disc is how much different are the known songs from the versions that we know, more than if there are unknown songs on there.

For C&V, think that this guys are masters of trolling fans. So basically they wanted to give depth and myth to a record they didn't do at their fullest

[monkeyupinspace]

i just hope that someday these songs will be released in their original form.

[trambopoline]

god I can't wait for that "vault" to be inevitably purged

[WhiteTim]

Like Todd said pointed out labels always will make label only copies of material for office use with random tracks 

 

case in point take this office use cassette Geffen did on Nirvana 

Songs that at the time wasnt released (Incesticide was still being compiled)

but random songs recorded from 1989-1992 on the tape 

so seeing John’s copy of a reference cd we can’t for sure say they are C&V songs or AI era they could be from Dookie to AI era  

[green day is]

3 hours ago, WhiteTim said:

Like Todd said pointed out labels always will make label only copies of material for office use with random tracks 

 

case in point take this office use cassette Geffen did on Nirvana 

Songs that at the time wasnt released (Incesticide was still being compiled)

but random songs recorded from 1989-1992 on the tape 

so seeing John’s copy of a reference cd we can’t for sure say they are C&V songs or AI era they could be from Dookie to AI era  

Yeah fair enough that was my main point anyway. Regardless of whether they were all from one session (which I wasn't trying to say) there's just no reason to believe it's the "official tracklist from C&V". It's just random tracks they had available for B-sides. While it almost definitely includes songs from C&V, there are others as well. As evidenced by the Governator discrepancy I already wrote about.

There's even evidence that the version of Lights Out on the KYE single is the same one recorded during AI sessions. So obviously "b-sides" don't belong to any one session.

[Annie, get your gun]

I never trusted this to be a true event, but I don't know... At this point I don't care anymore  Btw Cigs & Vals isn't a great song either. Maybe a studio version would make me judge it differently, though

[green day is]

1 hour ago, Laly said:

I never trusted this to be a true event, but I don't know... At this point I don't care anymore  Btw Cigs & Vals isn't a great song either. Maybe a studio version would make me judge it differently, though

Too Much Too Soon is great tho. Those are the only two confirmed C&V tracks we've actually heard.

(Clusterbomb is technically not confirmed for C&V, nor is it technically confirmed that the song on Warning was the same as AI, could have been a reused title. But it's very likely)

[Jankowski576]

Billies voice also sounds very different on the released songs from that “demo session” compared to AI, and the clear gap in sound feeds into my belief that they were C&V

[Jon Benjamin]

3 hours ago, Jankowski576 said:

Billies voice also sounds very different on the released songs from that “demo session” compared to AI, and the clear gap in sound feeds into my belief that they were C&V

This is what I’ve been saying! Too Much Too Soon, Lights Out, and Hearts Collide all have a vocal tone way closer to the post Warning/Pop Disaster era than anything in the AI era. Still nasally, not super full and clear.

[Slave To The Network]

5 hours ago, Laly said:

I never trusted this to be a true event, but I don't know... At this point I don't care anymore  Btw Cigs & Vals isn't a great song either. Maybe a studio version would make me judge it differently, though

I would be really interested to hear a studio version of it. I think it's an alright song personally, but maybe it would sound better on the recording.

We only ever got to hear it that handful of times they played it during the 21CB tour, right?

4 hours ago, green day is said:

Too Much Too Soon is great tho. Those are the only two confirmed C&V tracks we've actually heard.

(Clusterbomb is technically not confirmed for C&V, nor is it technically confirmed that the song on Warning was the same as AI, could have been a reused title. But it's very likely)

I love Too Much Too Soon! I thought "Clusterbomb" was the working title for Letterbomb. Is that not the case then?

[green day is]

10 minutes ago, Slave To The Network said:

I thought "Clusterbomb" was the working title for Letterbomb. Is that not the case then?

It was. It was also seen listed on a tracklist in a "making of" video for Warning, and from that you can gather it was probably part of C&V between the two. It's obviously a very safe assumption that the one on Warning is an early version of the one on AI, but I think it's fun to point out that it could just be a reused title. 

Walk Away is in the same position, but with a much looser connection due to both time and its very generic title.

[That Dude]

Maybe they didn't lie!

You weren't there!

You don't know!

Green Day Day don't lie!

You lied!

Lol.  This sounds hostile.  

All good here. But honestly.... 

The Theory of reality is due.

What Mongo Fink said ain't true.

When the tracklist is stretched and concept sets like dew. 

You lied.

 

 

[Gonzalo17]

I think that C & V was only an idea, but it was never recorded... 

[Jon Benjamin]

1 hour ago, Gonzalo17 said:

I think that C & V was only an idea, but it was never recorded... 

Based on John Roecker’s post of potential AI b-sides it was

[Gonzalo17]

54 minutes ago, Jon Benjamin said:

Based on John Roecker’s post of potential AI b-sides it was

That AI B-sides list doesn't means that C&V was recorded.... They could be just AI b-sides recorded during that session

[Banjodewulf2247]

I think the network stole it if you ask me. they spread all those rumours about being green day so why not sneak away with one of their projects to

[Big Neil]

Horseshoes and Handgrenades was from before 21st Century Breakdown and before AI? What is this? 

[WhiteTim]

Weird to see that title 

 

I remember in Guitar World bout 21st Billie said about Horseshoe that he was in the studio during downtime and was just playing some random riffs and played Horseshoes and Butch Vig said what’s that and Billie said nothing and Vig made him finish the riff and write to it right then and there (something along those lines I can’t remember verbatim but he gave credit to Vig for making him write it)

[Squashie]

15 minutes ago, WhiteTim said:

Weird to see that title 

 

I remember in Guitar World bout 21st Billie said about Horseshoe that he was in the studio during downtime and was just playing some random riffs and played Horseshoes and Butch Vig said what’s that and Billie said nothing and Vig made him finish the riff and write to it right then and there (something along those lines I can’t remember verbatim but he gave credit to Vig for making him write it)

I thought that was restless heart syndrome 

[WhiteTim]

4 minutes ago, Squashie said:

I thought that was restless heart syndrome 

Ah you’re right tho he did mention Horseshoe as well (like I said I was going off of memory and my memory is pretty shitty lately)

https://www.greendayauthority.com/articles/119/7/

[trambopoline]

On 12/30/2020 at 1:17 PM, Gonzalo17 said:

That AI B-sides list doesn't means that C&V was recorded.... They could be just AI b-sides recorded during that session

 

On 12/26/2020 at 9:50 AM, Todd said:

This is an assumption that I’m not ready to hop on board with. There’s just not enough information to call it either way. WhiteTim pointed out before that just because it says American Idiot B-Sides, it doesn’t even mean they’re all from the same session. Look at You Lied and Rotting. Those were Nimrod B-sides, but they’re both from the Insomniac session. This could easily be a collection of songs from different sessions that they intended to pool from for b-sides. It could be the Nimrod version of 19th Nervous Breakdown. They could all be recorded after C&V. They could all be from C&V. Some of them could be from before C&V. We just don’t know, we can only speculate. 

But Cigs and Valentines is on the CD list.. I think at this point we can safely assume C&V was pursued (at least a period of time) as the next-green-day-record/was at least partially completed before they ditched it in favor of AI. That's why others and I are thinking that b-sides CD is at least in part comprised of material originally intended for C&V.

Todd put it better than I will and with examples, but that reference CD track list is probably just a collection of scraps/odds and ends they had at the time, which would probably include the ditched partial record they had lying around, yknow?