What if Green Day had never released American Idiot

[petros]

@WhiteTim Don't throw logical arguments at them they don't want those. Green day is the best band in the world and are still relevant with that #1 album. And the same dudes if I ask them about blink-182 will say "do they still exist?". Guess what they did have a #1 album too this year and with higher sales than revrad. I guess with that logic Blink is more relevant than green day now right?

[Joe.]

@crock6000 how is the stadium tour of an aging rock band going to "shake the world"? Literally nothing is out of the ordinary except the Hyde Park gig which still isn't exactly to be anything more than a bloody big gig

[petros]

1 minute ago, JoeFrusciante said:

@crock6000 how is the stadium tour of an aging rock band going to "shake the world"? Literally nothing is out of the ordinary except the Hyde Park gig which still isn't exactly to be anything more than a bloody big gig

No please stop it green day ruuules!1!!!11  

[RougeRogue]

1 hour ago, End Of The World said:

The hate is a sign of fame, isn't it?

We aren't debating fame though. Of course they're famous. My issue is in the public response to their fame.

The 100% negative I was referring to was when I clicked on their trending link on Facebook when it was up there when the whole thing happened. When you open those links, you expect to get contrasting posts. One for, one against, another for, another few against, as you scroll through it. Theirs was completely, entirely negative and it wasn't just from Trump supporters. It was everyone. And I could not believe that people across the board of all walks of life and political stances were responding that badly.

Obviously, this isn't an exact science. Different countries, cultures, regions, whatever are going to have different experiences. But my post was intending to present my own: My environment and the people in it have historically been severely negative to GD. My perspective on their "relevance" or, as I would prefer, their stance in pop culture, is not positive. If it is for someone else, that's cool but it does little to change the perspective of my own surroundings.

[Joe.]

7 minutes ago, crock6000 said:

Yo, I just saw the name for some reason.

Is that really you Joe because if so, this is Adam over at AEG/Goldenvoice.

Also I thought I posted this already but I know they will continue to rock because I've been going to their shows for decades and this tour so far has been one of the best as evidenced by the Palladium show and a couple others but mainly that one.

 

Nope, it's a reference to the Red Hot Chili Peppers guitarist. 

Ah right, so it'll be a normal tour, you've implied it was going to be a world changing event, which it won't be.

[Leni.]

I don't know. Is it really that important if our favourite band is relevant to the "outside world"? I mean, there are lot of bands or interprets that are hardly relevant for me. I don't care about music that I don't like or I'm just not able to listen to everything that was ever recorded, if I make sense at least a little bit. And I think it's ok and normal, and if GD are not relevant to majority of people, I don't care. Maybe I'm just too lazy to care which is quite typical for me. I don't want to sound intolerant or anything, I understand that it is nice when your favourite band is somehow relevant to other people too, but I just want to say that for me personally it doesn't matter at all. And those hate comments on the internet, it's disgusting and I'm not takling only about GD, but in general, people should stop being so hateful to celebrities. They're people too, aren't they?

[petros]

39 minutes ago, crock6000 said:

Edit 2: Further showing your intellectual dishonesty here, I want to point out that I'm a huge Eminem fan and have been since before he met Dre and infinite never charted ONCE let alone number one. There are virtually no rock bands on the Hot 100 per usual now a days and the Eminem album that is at 97 is there simply because of the 20th anniversary release and it will fall right back off and it charted this week FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER at 97 so please just stop.

Wait what? How?

[WhiteTim]

48 minutes ago, crock6000 said:

Believe me I am not trying to impresss anyone, merely giving out my credentials which is probably a lot more than you think even.

Not sure why I post and discuss with people, including yourself when you are not being intellectually honest.

I am not comparing this album to AI or TCB and OF COURSE the sales of those wouldn't be on par with those even if it was twice as successful because even from 2008-9 and DEFINITELY from 2004 the sales landscape has drastically changed so telling me what AI did vs RR on the Hot 100 makes zero sense.

First, how many rock bands do you see at all on the Hot 100? If you're gonna quote charts, quote the right ones at least such as the ones that use impressions and you'll see that Green Day is in the top 1 or 2 rock bands in the Milky Way right now.

You may have been in the business for 16 years but either you are being challenging me for fun or you didn't work on any significant administrative side of things.

I see stuff from AEG that you couldn't see if you begged and pleaded for it.

It comes down to this:

Regardless of what people that don't know think, and again, I don't give a flying fuck what people think of Green Day but for to fill up the shows so I can have fun as they are one of the few bands that I will still go see for fun so I am not saying what I say because I'm a fanboy who wants people to like my band. Lol.

I am just saying the truth that they are the best charting rock band in the world at the moment and as always are the best live act.

And I know this tour will rock the world because I've seen the show several times and even the couple TV appearances with shitty crowds still rock like its 1994. And the Palladium show was insane.

Stop trying to be right, but a ticket, enjoy the show and Bob's your uncle. (I think I used that phrase right).  Not sure.

no you're right I only became a millionaire several times over from the business how about you? and AEG? you mean Fred Anschutz's company? LMAO well I wasn't an promoter I didn't handle concerts so you know more about shows than I do as concerts have never been my interest at all so you're assessment of the concerts may be very on the point if you work for AEG you'd see that even one hit wonders can sell out their shows so you can't gauge relevancy just off of concerts alone which is all I'm saying 

you keep bringing up first week charts that's fine but it's been almost 2 months next week where are they currently on the alternative song Still Breathing is #12 on the hot rock songs they're currently #25 (Still Breathing) and #27 (Bang Bang which is up 1 from last week) and #10 for rock album which is up from 15 so hopefully with the tour kick in will bring more sales 

going by this week's charts Metallica is the bigger band

like I said we have difference opinions on the level of relevancy which is fine man 

[petros]

Just now, crock6000 said:

Infinite was Em's first album and it was historically panned. For the 20th anniversary of his first album he had the album remixed by the Bass Brothers. 

That was this week and so a 20 year old remastered Eminem album debuted at 97 on the Hot 100 because he is Eminem.

Go look at the Hot 100, you'll see no rock bands. Only hip hop, Rnb and some Country crossovers. Rock bands on the Hot 100 are virtually never anymore. 

So that is how and why Eminem is charting a 20 year old album.

No no I meant about you being a fan of him before he met Dre.

[WhiteTim]

 Maroon 5 Train John Mayer all on the hot 100 all rock (Well Mayer is more blues but they have him on rock charts) 

[petros]

1 minute ago, crock6000 said:

So what's the question here?

How where you a fan before he met Dre? How did you listen to his music and all that. There must be some story behind this. Or did you heard of him from that source article before he was signed by dre?

1 minute ago, WhiteTim said:

Twenty One Pilots Maroon 5 Train John Mayer all on the hot 100 all rock (Well Mayer is more blues but they have him on rock charts) 

Maroon are nothing but rock anymore though. And 21 pilots rap so i wouldn't say they are exactly rock like green day are.

[WhiteTim]

1 minute ago, petros said:

How where you a fan before he met Dre? How did you listen to his music and all that. There must be some story behind this. Or did you heard of him from that source article before he was signed by dre?

Maroon are nothing but rock anymore though. And 21 pilots rap so i wouldn't say they are exactly rock like green day are.

well on billboard twenty one is on hot 100 and under the rock charts I've only heard a song or two from them 

[petros]

Just now, WhiteTim said:

well on billboard twenty one is on hot 100 and under the rock charts I've only heard a song or two from them 

Well they don't really have guitars in their songs like green day do. More like drum bass and synthesizers.

[Leni.]

1 minute ago, WhiteTim said:

Twenty One Pilots Maroon 5 Train John Mayer all on the hot 100 all rock (Well Mayer is more blues but they have him on rock charts) 

I still don't understand why Twenty One Pilots are considered to be rock on those rock charts. I listen to this band and I just don't hear what's rock about them.   I know the influence is probably there, but their music just doesn't sound rock to me.

[WhiteTim]

Just now, petros said:

Well they don't really have guitars in their songs like green day do. More like drum bass and synthesizers.

ah well I'll edit them out then (I'm only familiar with Mayer and Maroon)

[WhiteTim]

2 minutes ago, crock6000 said:

I do quite well for myself.

I see you standing on (I'm assuming its you) a Improv backdrop. If it's the one in LA, I am Jay Davis' cousin

I agree with you.  21 Pilots is the new pop rock I guess.  I thought the exact same thing about the exact same band.

no it's the Houston location I haven't been to L.A. since I sold my place in Burbank in 2013 

[Leni.]

2 minutes ago, crock6000 said:

I agree with you.  21 Pilots is the new pop rock I guess.  I thought the exact same thing about the exact same band.

Well I don't see them as pop rock either. Their melodies are really poppy, no argument on that, but I would say it's not really pop in the terms of sound (I don't know how to explain that in other words sorry ) But yeah basically you're probably right. I'm just not able to figure it out  

[Leni.]

1 minute ago, crock6000 said:

Well "Pop Music" is not a style of music.  That is why we say Pop-Country, Pop-Hip Hop, Pop Rock.  People say "pop music" and it refers to anything.  The term came about in the 50s as an alternative term to rock (which was the only pop at the time) for a then lighter brand of music.  Instead of "Easy Listening" some DJ termed the phrase "Popular Music" if it was popular.

Bon Iver is a good example of a pop band that does NOT sound anything like pop.

Usually when people say pop they mean Brittany Spears, Maroon 5, etc.

Often pop music sucks because music that appeals to the masses (the lowest common denominator) is bland and boring.  The exceptions are bands like Floyd, Rolling Stones, Wayland Jennings, RUN DMC, Beastie Boys, and yes Green Day (who do have some very poppy songs). One thing I have noticed is that Floyd seems to be losing some ground with the latest generation.

The Beatles are forever pop.  They are the Beethoven of pop and if there are still humans in 200 years, they will be discussed,.

I've never understood these terms and genres, that's why I'm always so lost when somebody asks me what genres I like. I mean I know there are similarities in music which we can take and say that it's one genre, but still every musician does it differently so that's what confuses me. These nuances. I'm not even able to classify this band. It's so hard for me, but I get what you mean, definitely

[Thatsername]

4 hours ago, petros said:

You know in the link you posted they are getting tons of hate in the comments right?

Yeah but the article itself is positive. And as I wrote earlier, I think we can't take social media comments too seriously. Those things are often trolled by haters, they are always louder than supporters. Hate speech is what social media was invented for, and GD isn't the only one who gets hate there, many celebrities, politicians etc get it. But I still don't think the opinion on social media is 100% the same opinion as in the real world.

1 hour ago, Ellen Caulfield said:

I don't know. Is it really that important if our favourite band is relevant to the "outside world"? I mean, there are lot of bands or interprets that are hardly relevant for me. I don't care about music that I don't like or I'm just not able to listen to everything that was ever recorded, if I make sense at least a little bit. And I think it's ok and normal, and if GD are not relevant to majority of people, I don't care. Maybe I'm just too lazy to care which is quite typical for me. I don't want to sound intolerant or anything, I understand that it is nice when your favourite band is somehow relevant to other people too, but I just want to say that for me personally it doesn't matter at all. And those hate comments on the internet, it's disgusting and I'm not takling only about GD, but in general, people should stop being so hateful to celebrities. They're people too, aren't they?

I agree. I love so many bands that most people don't even know, but they still mean the world to me.

[End Of The World]

I think we shouldn't care too much about "fame" or "relevance" of GD in the world.

It's 30 years that this band is playing for us. And today GD are at their best, as RevRad shows us.

To stay on topic, I think that all this wouldn't have been possible without AI.

A band that is Still Breathing after some Troubled Times, a group of Outlaws that are Too Dumb to Die, a band that made Bang Bang again. And I don't want to Say Goodbye to it. I want it Forever Now.

[Leni.]

2 hours ago, End Of The World said:

I think we shouldn't care too much about "fame" or "relevance" of GD in the world.

It's 30 years that this band is playing for us. And today GD are at their best, as RevRad shows us.

To stay on topic, I think that all this wouldn't have been possible without AI.

A band that is Still Breathing after some Troubled Times, a group of Outlaws that are Too Dumb to Die, a band that made Bang Bang again. And I don't want to Say Goodbye to it. I want it Forever Now.

I love your little poem  (or how to call it)

And I agree on the first thought also, and the second actually too  

[MikeDirntConfused]

On 11/28/2016 at 9:52 AM, Jenn. said:

Well you're a bundle of fun

I still think they'd have a place in Kerrang and amongst their pre-AI fans, but it would be a much smaller scale than it is now.

They'd be in the back of the magazine near the credits, mentioned in a single line. Seriously, AI was a turning point in the band's career. The band reached new heights, and its impact still plays a role in GD's songwriting. I'd imagine the band would have completely faded out.

[DeJennsitized]

7 hours ago, MikeDirntConfused said:

They'd be in the back of the magazine near the credits, mentioned in a single line. Seriously, AI was a turning point in the band's career. The band reached new heights, and its impact still plays a role in GD's songwriting. I'd imagine the band would have completely faded out.

I agree with AI's impact, but I still think they'd be a feature in Kerrang without it - they'd just be in a similar position to a lot of bands. AI definitely gave them the coverage they have even now, but it's still the band that made Dookie, and I think that alone would keep them in Kerrang and similar outlets every time a pop punk feature comes around, similar to Blink and Sum 41.

[Leni.]

I think that with the situation they were in, the turning point was mainly the fact they needed and wanted to change something and be better in what they were doing. That means for me, we could have been given something similiar, I mean it could be just a different title of the album for example. I don't know, but the whole world would have had to be different and less complicated at that era that the band could have been inspired to write different lyrics. Recording of the album like instrumental arragements is a different topic for me right now, which I can't analyze if they would have done such a masterpiece as American Idiot is, for me personally. If they would have never changed their way of thinking and continue with - let's say Dookie vibes - the whole Insomniac wouldn't have happened. The same thing with Nimrod, and Warning which wouldn't exist either if the band wouldn't be evolving their sound and of course topics of the songs. 

[MikeDirntConfused]

On 12/1/2016 at 3:20 AM, Jenn. said:

I agree with AI's impact, but I still think they'd be a feature in Kerrang without it - they'd just be in a similar position to a lot of bands. AI definitely gave them the coverage they have even now, but it's still the band that made Dookie, and I think that alone would keep them in Kerrang and similar outlets every time a pop punk feature comes around, similar to Blink and Sum 41.

But Blink was gaining more and more relevance with each release, while GD was losing more and more relevance after every release. A lot of people on this forum can't hear anything bad about the band, and refuse to think anything negative can be said about GD.

If AI didn't come out, no one would care, if they did, about 21st Century Breakdown. There would be no hype for any other releases, and I'm pretty sure that Reprise would drop them. The band would probably resort to Adeline Records. In 2004, before AI came out, the world wasn't anxiously awaiting a new GD release. The band was regarded as a "greatest hits" band that mostly plays songs from an album released a decade ago.