What if Green Day had never released American Idiot

[petros]

Come on guys green day aren't as relevant as they used to be and that's not a bad thing. Many young people don't really know green day now as they did in let's say 05. Also many people that know green day don't know anything about revrad. That's not a bad thing and I'm not saying the music they do now is not good it's just that you don't see guitars on the charts or the music channels anymore.
If you're trying to prove they are relevant with #1 peaks it really means nothing. I can show you many albums that went no.1 and you don't even know those artists not to mention the albums. Of course they are famous and most people know who they are and what they do. But right now not a lot of people know them for revrad but for dookie or american idiot or even 21stcb. That's the point WhiteTim makes by saying they aren't as famous as they used to be. There is no doubt about it if you don't see this you're just delusional.

[BilIie Joe Armstrong]

They aren't relevant the way they were in 2004 but that would be hardly possible, no one gives a shit about pop-punk these days. They are doing very well considering the circumstances. 

[End Of The World]

2 hours ago, crock6000 said:

Muse is the only other rock band that comes to mind that charted better than them with Drones

Drones was fantastic. Muse is one of my favourite bands.

22 minutes ago, petros said:

Many young people don't really know green day now as they did in let's say 05

Well I must be an exception since I discovered GD in their Uno Dos Trè era (2012).

[petros]

Just now, End Of The World said:

Well I must be an exception since I discovered GD in their Uno Dos Trè era (2012).

Well of course there are exceptions. I meant the majority of fans obviously.

[End Of The World]

Just now, petros said:

Well of course there are exceptions. I meant the majority of fans obviously.

Yes of course. But I remember that Stray Heart in Italy was played a lot back in 2012/2013. It was certificated as gold. I think Bang Bang will do the same in the future. Here in Italy GD are loved very much still today.

7 minutes ago, Jane Lannister said:

no one gives a shit about pop-punk these days.

Only MTV rocks does with GD and Blink

[Chin for a Day]

I'm basing this on my kids and their friends, but what I find is it isn't that younger people don't know GD (or actually rock in general), it is that they know the songs but not necessarily the bands.  The other day they were singing I Want You to Want Me.  I said to them, you know Cheap Trick?  They said no, we just know the song.   That happens all the time where they know and like older rock songs, but they just don't know who sings them.  

 

[BilIie Joe Armstrong]

6 minutes ago, Scattered Wreck said:

I'm basing this on my kids and their friends, but what I find is it isn't that younger people don't know GD (or actually rock in general), it is that they know the songs but not necessarily the bands.  The other day they were singing I Want You to Want Me.  I said to them, you know Cheap Trick?  They said no, we just know the song.   That happens all the time where they know and like older rock songs, but they just don't know who sings them.  

 

Yeah, I remember a few years back at least two people told me about My Sharonna by The Knack. No one knew it was by a 70's band - I had to google it. Seems like most people these days just don't bother searching for the bands/other songs even though they might like them. 

[DeJennsitized]

People sure as fuck know about Bang Bang if they watched the AMAs. Just because some people don't know about the new album (yet) doesn't make them not relevant!

[End Of The World]

9 minutes ago, Jenn. said:

People sure as fuck know about Bang Bang if they watched the AMAs. Just because some people don't know about the new album (yet) doesn't make them not relevant!

As you said, some people. The great majority knows about it.

 

[Dakke]

If Green Day had never released American Idiot we would possibly not be talking on this forum about any recent Green Day albums.

[End Of The World]

5 minutes ago, Dakke said:

If Green Day had never released American Idiot we would possibly not be talking on this forum about any recent Green Day albums.

Yes maybe. But am I the only one who fell in love with Too Much Too Soon and Lights Out at the first listen. Can't believe they're b sides.

[Dakke]

Just now, End Of The World said:

Yes maybe. But am I the only one who fell in love with Too Much Too Soon and Lights Out at the first listen. Can't believe they're b sides.

Hell no. I live both of those tracks. Too Much Too Soon and Favorite Son fit American Idiot perfectly. I love Lights Out and Hearts Collide and I'm still waiting on a second Shenanigans to collect all B-sides/lost tracks from 2003 through Revolution Radio.

[DeJennsitized]

21 minutes ago, crock6000 said:

Good post but there are ZERO exceptions. Your average band sells 75% and rising less media for listening. Most 2017 cars, most luxury cars are starting to offer packages without even a CD player. My current oldest car is a 2012 and I've never put a CD in it.  Streaming music services is the future of music.

If a band sells 1 million records even over things like iTunes, in 2004 it would have been 4 or 5 million.

The days of albums selling like Jackson's Thriller are over.

Again, people know/knew about it which is why they were invited to play and why the track hit number 1 in 4 weeks (fastest eve). Yeah, more know now.

I didn't mean exceptions as in people selling more copies than they would have ten years ago, I was just specifically talking about selling more than what AI sold (but yeah, it is a moot point I guess.)

[petros]

27 minutes ago, crock6000 said:

The days of albums selling like Jackson's Thriller are over.

I'm laughing at your response to my post so I won't comment on it. Let's agree to disagree. But what you're saying here didn't stop Adele from breaking the record with most sales in first week and that was last year. So I guess some super relevant people can still sell huge numbers. Also have you seen the sales eminem does after all these years he's been in the game? That's a relevant artist that's been around long enough, like green day, but still stays relevant and everyone knows it when he comes with a new album and has #1 albums that mean something. Not green day with 95.000 sales. But ok you can write another essay and try to convince me but it's a fact if green day's relevance in let's say 05 was 10/10 right now it's more like 4-5.

[DeJennsitized]

1 minute ago, crock6000 said:

Yeah, I think I got what yo meant. You were saying that there are few exceptions that today there could maybe be a band that sold as many albums as AI and I was saying that couldn't happen today with any band.

Correct, it is a moot point but so is half the banter around here.

Almost! I meant any artist, not just in Green Day's genre. My post was about GD's relevance in music as a whole, not just in rock (because in rock they're unquestionably relevant and no clue why anyone would argue otherwise.)  

[RougeRogue]

Something tells me that "relevant" is not the right word for any of these arguments. Fuck sales, let me put it into this perspective:

In life away from GDC, I hesitate with bringing up Green Day as my favorite band. Why? Because the response is always negative. In the post AI era, I was met with "old stuff is better, new stuff is too popular" in 21CB I was met with "they suck now" "all those bands sound the same" during the trilogy they may as well have been dead, as most responses were "they broke up right?"

And now it's nothing but people pushing them away be it over politics or having zero interest in them. The alternative scene very much traded its pop-punk base for quirky sounds of an indie rock, folk, hipster scene. And that's where you get this feeling that they're not relevant anymore. The places where I could find GD in the past are no longer places for them and, even if they throw in a single of theirs for good measure, it sounds so different to what's "popular" now.

That's great that there's enough of us that keep their sales going, but their lack of "relevance" (again, I don't think that's the right word) comes from this overwhelming negative attitude towards them and their stark difference in what is considered popular alternative now vs. then.

[DeJennsitized]

^ Where's your "overwhelming negative attitude" coming from though? I've seen loads of people who aren't fans praising them for Bang Bang/SB. You're obviously going to find different attitudes towards them depending on where you look or who you ask.

There's no question that popular music in general is about as far from rock as you can get, but that doesn't determine relevance. Like I said before, music is consumed in different ways. People don't buy albums anymore, they buy songs. And only then if it appears on their radar which they've built online that filters certain things out. Green Day are popular in my circle, for example.

[RougeRogue]

2 minutes ago, Jenn. said:

^ Where's your "overwhelming negative attitude" coming from though? I've seen loads of people who aren't fans praising them for Bang Bang/SB. You're obviously going to find different attitudes towards them depending on where you look or who you ask.

There's no question that popular music in general is about as far from rock as you can get, but that doesn't determine relevance. Like I said before, music is consumed in different ways. People don't buy albums anymore, they buy songs. And only then if it appears on their radar which they've built online that filters certain things out. Green Day are popular in my circle, for example.

The 100% negative response in/on every AMA article, for one.

[DeJennsitized]

Just now, RougeRogue said:

The 100% negative response in/on every AMA article, for one.

I'm not denying that there was negativity, but 100% is just not true at all. Reblogs on social media were in the thousands, and they were trending too. It's hard to determine the exact ratio across the internet but I am 100% sure it was not all negative.

[Thatsername]

30 minutes ago, RougeRogue said:

The 100% negative response in/on every AMA article, for one.

100% negative? As far as I can remember, there was a lot of support for them. You can't judge the feedback only by reading the facebook- or instagram-comments, the haters are always louder on social media, that's a rule. There was also good feedbaack on the media, for example here: http://www.billboard.com/articles/events/amas/7581478/amas-2016-best-worst-moments

[petros]

Lol you do realize that by trying to prove your point you lose it right? The most self-canceled question is "Are you famous?" How can somebody be famous if he has to be asked about it? This is how I view this whole conversation in this thread now.

What @RougeRogue said is 100% true for me. Of course the fans of green day are gonna like them in general (and we all here are like that) but 90% of people that are not fans view them differently. Funny thing is this is almost going to turn in the same conversation I started in another thread about most people outside of here viewing green day as "those forty-something year old dudes that dress like they're teens and try to seem like they have a political opinion to please their fan base which consists of 14 years old". And that's true though. For most people that are not fans of green day's music this is who green day is to them. Obviously we here and the guys themselves don't care but why are you trying to convince us that's not the case? Does it mean something to you that your favorite band is viewed like that? Didn't green day at least taught you to stand out and not to care about what other think of you?

24 minutes ago, MMwhatsername said:

100% negative? As far as I can remember, there was a lot of support for them. You can't judge the feedback only by reading the facebook- or instagram-comments, the haters are always louder on social media, that's a rule. There was also good feedbaack on the media, for example here: http://www.billboard.com/articles/events/amas/7581478/amas-2016-best-worst-moments

You know in the link you posted they are getting tons of hate in the comments right?

[End Of The World]

1 hour ago, RougeRogue said:

The 100% negative response in/on every AMA article, for one.

The hate is a sign of fame, isn't it?

[Joe.]

2 hours ago, crock6000 said:

I am talking strictly numbers.

This whole "relevant" thing is goofy.

Yeah, Adelle is the artist of the decade although I personally can't stand her music but she sold I think 25 million albums on her last one and breaking records on this one. 

She sold more albums then ANYONE in the 2000s at 25 million and counting with her newest album.

So you picked up on the number one selling artist of the 2000s! And she sells that many because she has a lot of older fans that still buy CDs and albums but as I said there will NEVER be another 110 million selling record like Thriller and you can agree to disagee all you want but that is a fact my friend.

The days of 100 million record sales are LOOONNGG gone.

Maybe not to the extent but I disagree with you there

If a band came along like and released an album of huge proportions, like say Nirvana's Nevermind or Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon it would still sell a hell of a lot of albums

Green Day no longer have the influence they once had. Of course they're still going to get out on Late Late Shows, they were once massive. They're going to chart well with pretty much anything and Bang Bang was a good song, so it got number one.

Your previous points about touring are a bit BS, bands like ACDC and Guns N Roses haven't released anything amazing in decades and have been playing stadiums

38 minutes ago, End Of The World said:

The hate is a sign of fame, isn't it?

Not really, I've seen tiny bands get hated on

[WhiteTim]

8 hours ago, crock6000 said:

You think so?

Only problem with your logic is while it sounds pretty good and the company is stellar (Stones, Jovi, and U2) and it would be just fine if that's the part of their career they are at. Also important to point out the Avon Jovi released their first album in forever like 2 weeks after RevRad (which hit #1 on the 200 for Bob Jovi. It also went #1 in Australia if memory serves)

Big giant HOWEVER though, legends like the ones you mentioned have a treasure trove of hits to play to the audience but none that come from any new stuff (at least that charts).

Do this. Go to Billboard and enter all those bands you mentioned and none of them have a charter hit (not number one but just charting) on the Hot 100 and you'll find U2 in 2014 of a re-mastered song from 1991.

Then do the same for Green Day and you will see that they are charting still like crazy including their fastest charting hit EVER in Bang Bang. Their tour is about to shake the world.

Yeah, they are not even close to resting on their laurels and playing arena rock to the generations of fans that would pay to come see them.

Nope they are still manufacturing hit songs and albums and making new fans every generation.

Monitoring charts and figuring out who is doing well or will do well as a promoter and producer is my job so I'm not speaking out of my arse.

I am not saying my word is the end all and when I say I search out talent, I don't mean Hall of Fame legends, I mean they are still relevant, still producing and when they don't, I'll be just fine so I am not trying to convince you of something because I care about what people think about Green Day because frankly I don't. I love them and that's good enough for me.

I am just saying no to someone pointing out a white color when it's definitely green if that makes sense. 

No argument here. If someone doesn't want to agree with me, I'm fine with that.

You can use your job to try to impress someone else I was in music for nearly 16 years before retiring 

Revolution Radio the album is not a hit yes charted for a week then dropped off to #7 the next week worldwide sales so far is not even 200k that's not that good for a band that's so relevant as you call them respectful numbers for some bands but at this time 21st was good already AI was near double platinum world wide yes sales can pick up again once the tour starts 

why you using first week figures why not use the current rankings oh because then it wouldn't be as impressive would it? Cause Bang Bang isn't in the top 10 currently it's not even in the top 100 a 20 year old Eminem is tho 

http://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100

no GD tho maybe for the alternative chart they are but the main chart they're not charted 

anyways we have different opinions on the scale of their relevancy I'm not saying they aren't just not on the same scale as you think they are which is fine not knocking you at all 

[Christian's Inferno!]

Everyone who's into rock knows about Green Day and most of these people probably know GD are still making music. But rock in general is becoming less relevant, it's not just GD. Most songs in the Hot 100 are pop songs, it's very hard for the kind of rock songs that GD make to chart high on the Hot 100. Bang Bang charted at No. 1 on all the main rock charts but still didn't even reach the Hot 100 (peaked at 104). Oh Love peaked at No. 97 despite being a radio friendly mainstream song for GD. BOBD peaked at No. 2 back in 2004, in 2009 Know Your Enemy and 21 Guns reached No. 28 and No. 22 respectively in 2009. That's not going to happen for GD in 2016, and I think that's the same for most rock bands. Still Breathing, while radio friendly to the mainstream audience and while it has a lot of potential to do well, won't do as well at BOBD or even KYE and 21 Guns just because of the music industry in 2016. It might not even enter the Hot 100