Can GD Make Another AI?

[SuperXCsabre495]

  On 10/14/2016 at 11:49 PM, artfulairbus said:

in my opinion, DOS! seemed like the most MEH album they ever made.

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Totally agree, only stand outs for me were Stray Heart and Stop When The Red Lights Flash.

[Dakke]

  On 10/15/2016 at 12:13 AM, SuperXCsabre495 said:

Totally agree, only stand outs for me were Stray Heart and Stop When The Red Lights Flash.

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Let's not forget Lazy Bones. 

[SuperXCsabre495]

  On 10/15/2016 at 12:15 AM, Dakke said:

Let's not forget Lazy Bones. 

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Damn, I can't believe I forgot about Lazy Bones 

[Dakke]

  On 10/15/2016 at 12:16 AM, SuperXCsabre495 said:

Damn, I can't believe I forgot about Lazy Bones 

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Haha. No problem. Many people tend to forget there are some gems on the Trilogy

[dharmafox]

i cant figure out which was the best part in stray heart, the vocals or the awesome bass!

[SuperXCsabre495]

  On 10/15/2016 at 12:17 AM, Dakke said:

Haha. No problem. Many people tend to forget there are some gems on the Trilogy

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I have like 12-14 songs I refer to that would've made the trilogy one amazing album, that just means there's about 20 or so songs of filler which is quite unfortunate. I enjoy all the songs but I'll always have my "meh" selection and my "this is fucking great" selection.

[dharmafox]

  On 10/15/2016 at 12:19 AM, SuperXCsabre495 said:

I have like 12-14 songs I refer to that would've made the trilogy one amazing album, that just means there's about 20 or so songs of filler which is quite unfortunate. I enjoy all the songs but I'll always have my "meh" selection and my "this is fucking great" selection.

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what is ur fav song on trilogy

[Dakke]

  On 10/15/2016 at 12:19 AM, SuperXCsabre495 said:

I have like 12-14 songs I refer to that would've made the trilogy one amazing album, that just means there's about 20 or so songs of filler which is quite unfortunate. I enjoy all the songs but I'll always have my "meh" selection and my "this is fucking great" selection.

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I fully agree. More focus and one album instead of three, paired with the sound of Demolicious, would have made a worthy successor to Kerplunk.

[SuperXCsabre495]

  On 10/15/2016 at 12:21 AM, artfulairbus said:

what is ur fav song on trilogy

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Dirty Rotten Bastards. I have a knack for the multi-song songs but the "California's Burning Down" section is one of my favorite parts off the whole trilogy.

  On 10/15/2016 at 12:22 AM, Dakke said:

I fully agree. More focus and one album instead of three, paired with the sound of Demolicious, would have made a worthy successor to Kerplunk.

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If Baby Eyes off of Demolicious was on the regular album that would've been possibly a top 5 song. The bass line in the beginning was one of the best things on that album. Even 99 Revolutions, one of my favorites, sounds even better with the breakdown before "Nine, nine, to one" like they do live, it's a lot better than what they had on the trilogy.

[Stan Dellone]

In terms of commercial success, no, I don't think they'll ever reach or surpass American Idiot. Like everyone has been saying, it was a zeitgeist moment that they didn't and couldn't have predicted. To expect them to sell millions and win Grammys and be plastered on every TV screen for 2 years is just unrealistic. That being said, who cares? If they make an album as good (for the same, similar or different reasons) as American Idiot, then I'll take one copy please, and thank you.

The problem is I don't know if they'll be able to do that. The music on Revolution Radio is great, don't get me wrong. The compositions are stellar, and aside from weird mixing issues and balance problems, it's a really pleasing record for the ol' sound nostrils. But the lyrics are where it loses me. There's a weird over-reliance on slogans and catch phrases, and there are hardly any examples of complete sentences or thoughts on any song. It's all soundbites and quotable blurbs, but nothing of substance. In ¡Cuatro!, Billie talks about how when they went to record Nimrod, he didn't have the lyrics figured out when they went in to the studio, and that he would never do that again. Personally, I'd never have thought Nimrod was plagued by writers block or lack of preparation, but with this album (and to a greater extent the Trilogy), it really seems like the lyrics were either prematurely recorded or just afterthoughts. Something like Money Money 2020 or Stop Drop and Roll is fine, because it's just a bit of dumb (and awesome) fun on the side, but when that sort of fly by the seat of your pants lyrical style begins to seep into Green Day's catalogue, that's where the real (not real, but whatever) betrayal of their legacy comes in for me. It's never fun when you're singing along and then suddenly think, "Wait... what am I even singing? I found a knife by the railroad track? Santa Clause? The air is barely breathing? Legalize the truth? I'm like a drone way up in the sky? I shop online..."

If they can find something to be passionate about, be it their own angst, parenthood, existential crisis, a shattered political landscape, or being pissed at their stupid fans who can't just be happy with what they get, then maybe they can hit that high again. But vagueness isn't Green Day's friend. When I say that they're a band that speaks to me, it's not just a corny turn of phrase. I used to listen and understand what they were saying, but now... I'm not sure they're really saying anything at all. 

[henrybr]

I agree with you, Stan Dellone.

Sometimes I feel the same. And the more alarming thing to me is that the lyrics on revrad seems the worst green day ever written. Ok, the trilogy has a few bad lyrics, but it has good ones too. X-kid, Amanda, Stray Heart, and many others, sound true and meaningful to me. On revrad I hardly find a single good lyric on the entire album. It's really strange to me that Billie Joe seems to be losing his touch with age. I mean, it should be the other way around, no? He should be improving his lyrics with maturity and age. I'm kinda disapointed with that especially on revrad. The trilogy lyrics are more fun and unpretentious, and even the silly ones feels more ok. Revrad is not unpretentious, it's an album that takes itself more seriously, and them the lyrics stand on the way and compromise its sucess.

[MikeDirntConfused]

  On 10/15/2016 at 2:23 AM, henrybr said:

I agree with you, Stan Dellone.

Sometimes I feel the same. And the more alarming thing to me is that the lyrics on revrad seems the worst green day ever written. Ok, the trilogy has a few bad lyrics, but it has good ones too. X-kid, Amanda, Stray Heart, and many others, sound true and meaningful to me. On revrad I hardly find a single good lyric on the entire album. It's really strange to me that Billie Joe seems to be losing his touch with age. I mean, it should be the other way around, no? He should be improving his lyrics with maturity and age. I'm kinda disapointed with that especially on revrad. The trilogy lyrics are more fun and unpretentious, and even the silly ones feels more ok. Revrad is not unpretentious, it's an album that takes itself more seriously, and them the lyrics stand on the way and compromise its sucess.

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Exactly. A songwriter becomes better with age through experience, not worse or way worse. Take Robert Plant and that female country singer (Kruas?).

[Wretched & Divine]

  On 10/14/2016 at 9:50 PM, MikeDirntConfused said:

Once again, I'm not saying make another epic, rock opera or something as revolutiinary as AI. I'm just saying that GD's recent work has been lacking in quality for the most part. Compare random songs from the 90s to the trilogy and RevRad. In the 90s, there was effort, meaningful lyrics, and the songs have passed the test of time. I honestly feel that GD's recent work will be forgotten in a few years. Honestly, some of you guys can't stand criticism of this band at all.

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This is subjective though, the quality part. Trilogy was lacking majorly in quality in my opinion but there were still some gems hidden in there. RevRad may lack in quality according to you, but that doesn't mean everyone will agree with you. And that doesn't mean we are unable to handle criticism (the Trilgoy is largely panned around here from what I've seen, so I'm not even sure where you're getting that from to begin with), it just means opinions differ. It seems like you're not hearing what you want to hear re. RevRad.

[UNICORN VOMIT]

  On 10/14/2016 at 11:49 PM, artfulairbus said:

in my opinion, DOS! seemed like the most MEH album they ever made.

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Dos is awesome - like everything in life I like what I like - I don't care what others think😬😎

[Stan Dellone]

  On 10/15/2016 at 6:04 AM, crock6000 said:

One day you'll realize the lyrics were never as deep as you thought they were and other were more deep then you ever imagined.  There are some very deep lyrics mixed in RevRad and AI is not as poetic as you think.  Start reading Khalil Ghilbran if you want poetry but if you want stellar lyrics with great music and a fucking front man that is the best in the world, I know a band named Green Day and they are still the fucking best.

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I'm not sure that I agree with you that the lyrics were never deep, or maybe "depth" is just the wrong way to parse the point. Coherence might be a better term. If you look all the way back to their first albums/LPs to American Idiot, you'll find complete thoughts and actual... I don't know, sentences. Real statements. Not in terms of political statements or grand pronouncements necessarily, but fully realized and articulated concepts and lines within songs. Nowadays, it really feels like bumperstickers slapped over catchy tracks. The Trilogy is certainly more guilty of lazy lyricism, but 21st Century Breakdown was where the problem of sloganeering came in, with vague concepts taking the place of full thoughts. I mean, Christian's Inferno was basically a rewrite of Transistors Gone Wild from Money Money 2020, which was an empty but fun song. It's just that lots of the songs on Revolution Radio are about subjects that don't benefit from a lack of clarity, and sort of end up coming across as twisting in the wind rather than facing down the storm. And there are some awesome lines in some of the songs. Somewhere Now truly has one of the greatest opening lines of any song/album they've ever done, and there are plenty of comparable lines sprinkled throughout. It's a step in the right direction from the Trilogy. But given how great the album is otherwise, it's a disappointment. Anyone who claims that Billie Joe is the poet of the century, or on the same level as this Ghilbran guy (I'll take your word for it) is probably mistaken. It's not a question of poetry, but clarity. For me, anyway. 

[RougeRogue]

  On 10/15/2016 at 12:17 AM, Dakke said:

Haha. No problem. Many people tend to forget there are some gems on the Trilogy

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It's a good reminder and it's why I don't think I can condemn those albums entirely. X-Kid is very, very high up on my favorite songs of theirs of all time. I will admit that, especially with Dos, many of the songs and lyrics gave me a very unsettled feeling and I took a huge step away from being immersed in the band during that time. But RevRad's era certainly reignited a lot.

So to this thread's main question- I tire of critique and opinions on what direction is good or bad, what they should or shouldn't do, because for me, at the end of the day, I will likely follow them and like something about every step they take. And as long as they're happy with what they're doing, I think that's good enough for me. This album reminded me of that after years of feeling like a "distant" fan.

[Haushinka!]

  On 10/15/2016 at 6:27 AM, Stan Dellone said:

Nowadays, it really feels like bumperstickers slapped over catchy tracks. 

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Wow. You so eloquently described exactly what I was thinking - way better than I ever could have!  

[Spike]

Maybe Billie finally took his own advice and got his philosophy from a bumper sticker 

But still… previously his lyrics have been very easily accessible, but for the most part there's nothing wrong with him being more abstract. The fact you have to think about stuff more these days kind of shows his development as a writer. Not that I'm ever going to defend the bullshit that's gone on in certain songs, but I think the analysis above is on the harsh side.

[Stan Dellone]

  On 10/15/2016 at 6:49 AM, Haushinka! said:

Wow. You so eloquently described exactly what I was thinking - way better than I ever could have!  

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Ironically, what I said would fit nicely on a bumper sticker... 

 

  On 10/15/2016 at 7:09 AM, Spike said:

Maybe Billie finally took his own advice and got his philosophy from a bumper sticker 

But still… previously his lyrics have been very easily accessible, but for the most part there's nothing wrong with him being more abstract. The fact you have to think about stuff more these days kind of shows his development as a writer. Not that I'm ever going to defend the bullshit that's gone on in certain songs, but I think the analysis above is on the harsh side.

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I've been listening to the album at almost every opportunity since it leaked (I preordered, so I didn't feel too bad), and I have no plans to stop. But some of the lyrics really bug me... Still, top 5 favorite band of all time, and this album is definitely a breath of fresh air. But, when the air is barely breathing...

[straighttohell]

I think it's just simply that Billie is a different guy now than he was in the 90s (duh, right?). Seemed like 90s Billie wrote entirely for himself and about himself, where as now his lyrics are trying to appeal to everyone, and so they are a bit more broad, which sometimes comes off a little bland, uses a lot of sloganeering to be catchy and memorable to a general audience. I still dig his lyrics now, for what they are, I love Rev Rad, I love the trilogy, but I do miss his old writing style. I got into GD in the 90s, so those records will always be my personal favorites.

One thing to think about is there is basically only one way to breakdown the meaning of most GD songs from the 90s. Where as from American Idiot on, you could take a TON of the songs and come up with a variety of interpretations and meanings from his songs. He must just like that style now, he wants to write lyrics for everyone and anyone, and lyrics that can be interpreted differently from anyone and everyone. He even has said in interviews lately that he "doesn't want to be selfish" and wants to write for everyone. I feel like in the 90s he embraced writing "selfishly", he just wrote about whatever he was going through and didn't question it. Still Breathing could have just been about his struggle, could have been like "Hold On" off Warning, which feels like a song for himself. Simple and straight forward, but instead he made this very universal song for everyone, which don't get me wrong, I dig it.. but it's definitely different than "Hold On", even though they are essentially the same message.

Basically he's a different dude and writes differently now. I do at times miss his old writing style, but it is what it is.

[Steven Seagull]

Nothing can compare to his writing style in the 90s. Those songs actually made sense. His new writing style just seems so forced, like he doesn't have anything to say, so he makes up all these fancy random words that he thinks sound cool but don't make much sense. The character thing was probably the worst thing ever. I still don't know what songs on AI and 21st CB are trying to say or why should the songs be connected to each other.

Like compare Christie Road to Jesus of Suburbia. It's like night and day. One is simply great and the other is a complete mess.

[Stan Dellone]

 

  On 10/15/2016 at 7:48 AM, crock6000 said:

Now these lyrics MEAN NOTHING.  Damon himself has said so. He literally wrote down what equates to real word gibberish.  Just words put together but it sounds like this: THIS SONG WAS MEANT TO BE A PARODY OF AMERICAN ROCK AT THE TIME.  It's so awesome.  I love Damon.

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To me, this actually illustrates my point perfectly (not to say it refutes yours, more that it highlights the difference of opinion we have). Song 2 was clearly meant as an parody of grunge and its relative vapidness (in their opinion, apparently), which means its nonsense is the point. But Green Days nonsense isn't the point. It's the byproduct of not expressing their point clearly. But I get what you mean with just liking to rock out. That's why Stop When the Red Lights Flash is one of the major highlights of the Trilogy for me. Just a pure rager without a point, either in its set up, or its execution. I guess that's sort of the issue I'm having. They tee up these concepts as if they're going to elucidate them, then they slice it into a sand trap. Pulled punches and missed opportunities. 

To be 100% transparent, though, I think that Bang Bang is a great exemplar of the lyrical style that I've been ragging on for the rest of the record. Bang Bang does it right. Contextually, jumping around and speaking in chopped sentences and incomplete thoughts makes total sense from the mind of a social media crazed mass shooter. From the first time I heard it, I thought it was a perfect fit and a great song. Outside that context, it just... eh, no point restating it over and over. 

  On 10/15/2016 at 7:48 AM, crock6000 said:

Now I'm going to bring the lyrics to a song you actually did give some lyrical praise to but this song might be their most underrated right now but Somewhere Now is a MASTERPIECE.  It is brilliant musically and lyrically and it is my contention that this song is about the triggers and life of being sober.  I understand it so well (or I'm projecting my shit) because I am going (or just went through it). So like I said, we all bring different stuff to the table, both musically and lyrically.

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I completely agree with your analysis of this part of the song. The first line is so evocative... The fact that he says he's "running late" is my favorite part. He doesn't want to get there, he knows it's full of broken promises and wasted potential, compromise and boredom, and yet... he's still going, willingly or unwillingly. You can't be running late to somewhere you're not heading for already. A lack of control and a sense of destitute destiny. It's a really cool turn of phrase. 

But you stopped your analysis just before it gets into the weeds. When he starts throwing around stuff about shopping online and being a drone/shooting star (a cool visual/conceptual juxtaposition, but... why here?), and then the sudden shift from first person to third with the line about the soldier. It goes from specific and personal in the first verse to general and generic in the second. It really loses steam for me. 

  On 10/15/2016 at 7:48 AM, crock6000 said:

And we all die in threes   (Now this one I don't know and is ominous as there are three of them.  Not a fan of this one and don't know what it means. Thoughts?)

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For the record, I actually think this lyric proves that your analysis was spot on with it being a post iHeart/rehab sort of retrospective. My take away was the whole "celebrities always die in threes" theory. Michael Jackson, Farrah Fawcett, and Ed McMahon all died in close chronology, and it's part of a larger celebrity myth... I'm sure he felt like he was on the brink of becoming another entry on a hokey internet clickbait list if he didn't change direction.

I know that a lot of this is just going to end up being a "to each their own" sort of thing, which is cool, and I'm glad you're open to discussing it. I actually went back and read the lyrics for the album to see them in (or out) of context, and found something I hadn't caught just listening to it. The "santa clause" line on Too Dumb To Die. I thought "all I got was camouflage" was a really great lyric, about choosing a cause just to look like you stand for something. Then the santa line... it suddenly made sense as him thinking he'd found a cause worth fighting for as a kid, then finding out it was all a lie, like santa (sorry if anyone out there didn't know... but it's time you knew the truth). It still hits the ear weird, but it made sense and didn't just feel like word salad. 

I don't know that I expect to find any other excuses like that one, but it's still a good album. Stopped short of greatness in my book, but my book is just a glorified fan fiction anyway...

  On 10/15/2016 at 7:48 AM, crock6000 said:

You never know until you see it performed.   Listening to a Green Day song is almost like just reading the script before you see the movie.

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Truer words were never spoken. Seriously. 

[straighttohell]

  On 10/15/2016 at 8:59 AM, Steven Seagull said:

Nothing can compare to his writing style in the 90s. Those songs actually made sense. His new writing style just seems so forced, like he doesn't have anything to say, so he makes up all these fancy random words that he thinks sound cool but don't make much sense. The character thing was probably the worst thing ever. I still don't know what songs on AI and 21st CB are trying to say or why should the songs be connected to each other.

Like compare Christie Road to Jesus of Suburbia. It's like night and day. One lyrics are simply great and the other is a complete mess.

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Both are sick for different reasons homie...

[TheGrouch33]

 

 

  On 10/15/2016 at 9:12 AM, straighttohell said:

You say that as if it's a FACT, and that's silly. It's music. It's all subjective.

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hes not saying its a fact! its just an opinion. If you think its "silly" to feel different about one lyric or another then thats your opinion on how you  digest and enjoy Green Day great ! but some of us just feel disconnected to some songs because the lyrics seem to be random catch prahses and a bit lost compared to the songs of AI or prior albums! 

[straighttohell]

  On 10/15/2016 at 9:22 AM, TheGrouch33 said:

 

 

hes not saying its a fact! its just an opinion. If you think its "silly" to feel different about one lyric or another then thats your opinion on how you  digest and enjoy Green Day great ! but some of us just feel disconnected to some songs because the lyrics seem to be random catch prahses and a bit lost compared to the songs of AI or prior albums! 

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Thats cool dude, never said there was anything wrong with that. I feel disconnected to a lot of Billie's "random catch phrase" lyrics as well. Cheers. I just meant when someone says "these lyrics are great. these lyrics are not" that to me, comes off kind of silly, considering lyrics/music/art is all completely subjective. There is a difference between saying "I don't connect with these lyrics" and "these lyrics are bad."