Why are Green Day so bad at B-sides?

[Guest]

For such a prolific band, Green Day have released remarkably few B-sides. Excluding live versions of album tracks, early EPs, soundtrack contributions, and covers, their total of bonus tracks and B-sides comes to a paltry 16, 19 if you include the 3 songs from International Superhits. Considering they've released 11 full length albums, this is an incredibly low amount of leftover material from the creative process.

It makes me wonder, are there dozens of unreleased B-sides in the Green Day vaults? They've released some very long albums, such as Nimrod and 21stCB, which may go some way to explaining the dearth of B-sides from those eras. Perhaps The Network accounts for a full album of B-sides Green Day never got around to releasing. Also for the Trilogy, B-sides should not be expected, regardless of the fact that much of the Trilogy itself is inferior to many older B-sides.

I know this thread may be scraping the bottom of the barrel of things to discuss, but hey, it's better than bashing 9Gaggers all day. Also, I think it raises some interesting questions about how Green Day go about releasing singles and recording songs.

[Guest]

it sad as it makes me, they really do suck at it. I WANT MORE B-SIDES GODDAMNIT. a lot of the Trilogy is b-side material, no doubt. they're just too indecisive i think, never know what to pick for albums and what to chuck in the b-side heap so they just release it all.

[Thisnamehasnoreason]

Thats why they are called b sides they are the songs that arent good enough for the real albums.

[Guest]

it sad as it makes me, they really do suck at it. I WANT MORE B-SIDES GODDAMNIT. a lot of the Trilogy is b-side material, no doubt. they're just too indecisive i think, never know what to pick for albums and what to chuck in the b-side heap so they just release it all.

Billie did say that he wrote over 40 songs for 21stCB, and we got... 3 B-sides from that era? I dunno. It's weird. We always hear about how much Billie writes, but he must write a load of crap if so much of it never makes it to recording.

Thats why they are called b sides they are the songs that arent good enough for the real albums.

Well, no, actually. They're songs that don't necessarily fit neatly into an album's narrative. If a song isn't good enough to be on an album, it shouldn't be released at all, full stop.

[Firecracker Lell]

They actually suck at choosing. B-sides and singles.

[!]

How are people to judge what's a b side and what's not?

[November's Storms]

GD have released plenty of stuff that I would consider filler at best, so I would praise any self restraint they had in releasing songs that didn't really make the cut. 21stCB could have been so much better as a shorter album, maybe the same can be said of Nimrod.

Some of the few b-sides have been pretty good, so they are not bad at them in that sense. Bad at releasing them as backup to the singles, maybe so.

It could be something to do with the decline of the "single" as a profit maker. B-sides might scratch some creative and musical itches and hark back to the golden era of records but it doesn't make any commercial sense in today's environment.

[Guest]

Some of the few b-sides have been pretty good, so they are not bad at them in that sense. Bad at releasing them as backup to the singles, maybe so.

It could be something to do with the decline of the "single" as a profit maker. B-sides might scratch some creative and musical itches and hark back to the golden era of records but it doesn't make any commercial sense in today's environment.

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant.

As for you other point, I don't see the logic there, if anything the b-side is very much coming back into vogue. Younger bands such as the Arctic Monkeys and Biffy Clyro are notorious for releasing outstanding b-sides. Biffy have released 16 b-sides this year alone, with 4 of them being vinyl only. And vinyl itself is looking at a rebirth, as music purists move away from the mp3 and look back to the better sound quality that records offer.

[Sarcasm]

Yeah, it makes me sad that Billie always says in interviews "yeah I wrote about 200 songs, they were all good, but didn't fit on the album, so here is 15 of them."

A big digital album with demos would be wonderful for the fans. I don't see why they don't do it, honestly. It's not bad publicity, just label it "the bottom of the barrel".

[WhiteTim]

Nimrod isn't really a long album under 50 mins

[Guest]

Yeah, it makes me sad that Billie always says in interviews "yeah I wrote about 200 songs, they were all good, but didn't fit on the album, so here is 15 of them."

A big digital album with demos would be wonderful for the fans. I don't see why they don't do it, honestly. It's not bad publicity, just label it "the bottom of the barrel".

Yeah, that's always pissed me off. Don't tease us like that, we want to hear all that stuff, even it's rubbish

Nimrod isn't really a long album under 50 mins

I was more talking about the amount of songs on the album, not it's running time.

it is weird that green day haven't done this at all. they did singles on vinyl for know your enemy and 21 guns and some stuff off american idiot but now that records are popular they aren't doing any vinyl singles at all? makes no sense. they released the oh love e.p. on cd only which was dumb. i don't now very many people who collect cds at this point but i know lots of people who collect vinyl. release a single, slap a b-side on it, call it an exclusive run of x amount of copies and collectors will eat that shit up.

Exactly. Vinyl only b-sides basically sell themselves. Heck, even with CDs, collectors or even random fans are far more inclined to buy a 3 or 4 track CD single than a simple 1 track CD.

[The Disappearing Boy]

The thing is, even when they do do B sides, they're still pretty damn good. Light's Out is probably the worst B side they've ever released, but apart from that Shenanigans is pretty good and so are the AI b sides (apart from maybe Governator).

[Beezey]

I hope they keep B-sides on tape or the songs flied - maybe there are so much songs that are personal or there are ones that dont see right or measure up to go on albums. They might be able to amend some of the songs if they keep the so-called rejected songs filed either as lyrics and chords; or on a recording and its worth considering that they might have been told that some songs will not fit on a Warner-Reprise released album and maybe some to these unreleased tracks are really Punk or old skool Garage or something . Or he might be one of those writers who write alot and alot of it is not so good and eventually they stumble on a good song and set of good lryics or demo. Maybe they could go back and check, if they actually have some disregarded songs on file - as a recording, demo or al lyrics and choose to release some either as b-sides or included as an EP or album. Maybe they are not good and taking feedback and want their way all the time or the opposite - that they dont get their own way all the time and have to only release songs that fit with their contract with Reprise . However Billie Joe and a few other business partners own a Independant Record Label so they could release on that label. Wonder why though. Or they could give some songs to other artists and bands.

My personal view is that he might write song lryics to express himself emotionally and so they might not be good as songs - no hooks etc. It seems to be sometimes a Hit or Miss. When they get it right they get it so right - but when they get it wrong - its so wrong. During the writing of the trilogy there where some scene in the documentary it seemed to imply and Billie Joe said himself he was on pills at the time so - it might not work if he is taking pills etc and possibly doing other things while writing. Maybe writing for the intention of writing a catchy punk tune could go in their favour in the future as well as the possible purging of expression Billie Joe Armstrong seems to want do through in his writing. Write what they want...though and then go back to them if needed.

[Guest]

i collect pretty much anything GD related. whether it be CD, vinyl or cassette. i am disappointed with how little has come from the Trilogy in the form on singles/b-sides/vinyl and tbh it makes my collection look a bit crummy. it's like they've taken a step back with what they do best, releasing a shit tonne of songs & collectables. they need to reevaluate their life choices before they bring anything else out otherwise i will find them and slap them for hard on the butt

[WhiteTim]

However Billie Joe and a few other business partners own a Independant Record Label so they could release on that label. Wonder why though. Or they could give some songs to other artists and bands.

Adliene is actually on Warner its not an independent label...

[Beezey]

I played a game of Fantasy Music Producers and listen to the Trilogy albums back to back and made a track list out of them. I took out alot of the tracks and added an additional "FHT Hijack" secret tracklist because the Garage inspired songs are explict and I personally uncomfortable about some of the topics of the songs and it helps to depersonalise the lyrics a bit to being more meaningless in my opinion. If you chose songs from all three albums there are possible alot of b-sides. I am not a music journalist or expert - it was fun to do and I think some of the tracks could have been condescenced or some of the lyrics re-written - example Baby Eyes and Angel Blue and of course Stray Heart - the lyrics gave people an impression and they assumed alot of things about the songs including Wild One and Lady Cobra - catchy track and I am very prudish and dislike the lyrics and the possible implications or assumptions people might make. I kind of made the Garage Rock inspired tracks as b-sides. But its going off topic that - what I said. I still have my list when I played that game. It was fun.

Adliene is actually on Warner its not an independent label...

OK - I thought it was. It gives an impression that it is.

[WhiteTim]

OK - I thought it was. It gives an impression that it is.

It run as one as its a small label

But Warner co owns the music and the artists

It's how they are able to do Green Day vinyl releases

[Guest]

The thing is, even when they do do B sides, they're still pretty damn good. Light's Out is probably the worst B side they've ever released, but apart from that Shenanigans is pretty good and so are the AI b sides (apart from maybe Governator).

I'm not complaining about quality, it's the staggering lack of quantity that concerns me. We're constantly told that Billie never stops writing, but unless his songwriting abilities are vastly exaggerated, we see buggerall of his output.

Also fuck you Lights Out is my favourite b-side of theirs

[Spike]

Well most of the albums are pretty long in terms of number of tracks, for a start. And maybe they only want to release their best quality stuff (if anyone mentions Christian's Inferno they can suck it). Tbh I've never seen b sides as necessary, just a cool bonus. There's only really Muse whose b sides are as good or better than album tracks. What's the point in releasing cast offs they didn't think were good enough in the first place? I thought Shenanigans was a cool idea but I only listen to one song off it these days.

[November's Storms]

As for you other point, I don't see the logic there, if anything the b-side is very much coming back into vogue. Younger bands such as the Arctic Monkeys and Biffy Clyro are notorious for releasing outstanding b-sides. Biffy have released 16 b-sides this year alone, with 4 of them being vinyl only. And vinyl itself is looking at a rebirth, as music purists move away from the mp3 and look back to the better sound quality that records offer.

Music purists might but in terms of mainstream commercial success b-sides aren't in vogue. Ask most young people who spend money on music these days about b-sides and you just won't get the same familiarity or appreciation of them as you would with older generations. I know vinyl sales are on the increase again but my point was that there's no focus or attention put on b-sides anymore and that GD's lack of output there might be an administrative/financial decision rather than any creative standpoint from the band.

[Guest]

oh & also if i were to count Shenanigans as an album and put it in my favourites list, it'd probably be 6th, beating a vast majority of their actual albums. it has some of my favourite songs on there.

[WhiteTim]

I'm not complaining about quality, it's the staggering lack of quantity that concerns me. We're constantly told that Billie never stops writing, but unless his songwriting abilities are vastly exaggerated, we see buggerall of his output.

Also fuck you Lights Out is my favourite b-side of theirs

May be he writes but not all get recorded

[Beezey]

Maybe some of the unreleased songs are Love Songs and he might want to keep them personal and private. Or it might just be a Hit and Miss or the record label possibly putting their foot down - who knows. But bet there are ones that could be released - maybe they are just waiting for the right time....like Good Riddance etc

[Guest]

Well most of the albums are pretty long in terms of number of tracks, for a start. And maybe they only want to release their best quality stuff (if anyone mentions Christian's Inferno they can suck it). Tbh I've never seen b sides as necessary, just a cool bonus. There's only really Muse whose b sides are as good or better than album tracks. What's the point in releasing cast offs they didn't think were good enough in the first place? I thought Shenanigans was a cool idea but I only listen to one song off it these days.

You obviously haven't heard any of Biffy Clyro's b-sides. They've consistently released better b-sides than album tracks for their last 3 albums now

I don't support your argument that ever b-side is inferior to the respective album it's associated with. Songs like Desensitized, Scumbag, and Too Much Too Soon are worthy of their place in any Green Day album.

Music purists might but in terms of mainstream commercial success b-sides aren't in vogue. Ask most young people who spend money on music these days about b-sides and you just won't get the same familiarity or appreciation of them as you would with older generations. I know vinyl sales are on the increase again but my point was that there's no focus or attention put on b-sides anymore and that GD's lack of output there might be an administrative/financial decision rather than any creative standpoint from the band.

Again, I simply can't agree with you. People who are very into music invariably explore the b-sides of artists as a matter of course. B-sides aren't released for the casual fans who might buy one or two songs of an artist of iTunes, they're for people who genuinely enjoy and follow bands and are intimately familiar with their back catalogues.

And if Green Day can't afford to release vinyl or b-sides these days, I don't know who can. They're probably one of the richest bands on the planet, even if they made a complete balls of something they have the nest eggs of Dookie and AI royalties to fall back on. Besides, as I've mentioned before, Biffy Clyro are prolific in their release of b-sides, and they're on Warner too.

May be he writes but not all get recorded

If a song is good, record it. It's not like money is an issue to them.

Maybe some of the unreleased songs are Love Songs and he might want to keep them personal and private. Or it might just be a Hit and Miss or the record label possibly putting their foot down - who knows. But bet there are ones that could be released - maybe they are just waiting for the right time....like Good Riddance etc

If he's willing to release songs like When It's Time and Good Riddance, I don't think there's much more in the way of sappy love songs that could be too private to release.

[Guest]

i have noticed a trend in you mentioning Biffy and i want to slap you.

i doubt there is any fan on here who wouldn't mind Green Day releasing a few b-sides. i myself want a repeat of Shenanigans & International Superhits, for American Idiot - Tre. that'd be so fucking amazing. throw some previously unheard songs in there and we'd be golden.