Mykee Mexx Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Don´t know whether this is an unpopular opinion. To me Green Day is (at least) 95% Billie Joe Armstrong. Tré and Mike are great in supporting him, good musicians, I guess, and I wouldn´t miss them. But sometimes I think, if they left the band Green Day would survive without them (well, maybe BJ wouldn´t...). If BJ left, Green Day was dead. He is Green Day, the rest is support. But I still want them all together.
Guest Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Don´t know whether this is an unpopular opinion. To me Green Day is (at least) 95% Billie Joe Armstrong. Tré and Mike are great in supporting him, good musicians, I guess, and I wouldn´t miss them. But sometimes I think, if they left the band Green Day would survive without them (well, maybe BJ wouldn´t...). If BJ left, Green Day was dead. He is Green Day, the rest is support. But I still want them all together. If you said that back around Dookie - Warning, that'd be ridiculous. But nowadays, yeah, I see your point. Tré hasn't set the world alight with his drumming since Nimrod, and Mike's last good bassline was probably around the same time. They've effectively been sidelined in BJ's creative process. It doesn't take a creative genius to sit on the high hats or play root notes for 3 minutes. Even with Mike and Tré writing parts of Homecoming for AI, I really feel BJ runs the show 100% when it comes to songwriting. That clip of him demoing Missing You kinda illustrates my point. Not a whole lot changes between the demo and the final version, musically, at least. Mike even went as far as to call it an "Easy A" in Cuatro.
Spike Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Don´t know whether this is an unpopular opinion. To me Green Day is (at least) 95% Billie Joe Armstrong. Tré and Mike are great in supporting him, good musicians, I guess, and I wouldn´t miss them. But sometimes I think, if they left the band Green Day would survive without them (well, maybe BJ wouldn´t...). If BJ left, Green Day was dead. He is Green Day, the rest is support. But I still want them all together. Hmm. I can see what you're getting at in a way, but only in that he's the chief songwriter. They could never carry on without him, but if one of the other guys quit and they did carry on they'd never be anywhere near as good. Tre and Mike are an absolutely rock solid rhythm section, one of the tightest around. That kind of chemistry only comes from years of playing together and having some kind of telepathy. Plus one of the most important things about Green Day, the thing that sets them apart from all other similar bands, is Mike's backing vocals. Without the harmonies between Billie and Mike, plus the Jasons and whichever other sap is in the band at any given time, they lose a lot. So in short, they could carry on if one left, but they'd never choose to do so, and if they did they'd suck. If you said that back around Dookie - Warning, that'd be ridiculous. But nowadays, yeah, I see your point. Tré hasn't set the world alight with his drumming since Nimrod, and Mike's last good bassline was probably around the same time. They've effectively been sidelined in BJ's creative process. It doesn't take a creative genius to sit on the high hats or play root notes for 3 minutes. Even with Mike and Tré writing parts of Homecoming for AI, I really feel BJ runs the show 100% when it comes to songwriting. That clip of him demoing Missing You kinda illustrates my point. Not a whole lot changes between the demo and the final version, musically, at least. Mike even went as far as to call it an "Easy A" in Cuatro. Eh, that is what it is though. Most bands have a songwriter who does the bulk of the groundwork, and for Green Day it's just always been Billie. I'm sure if the other two were strong enough songwriters they'd give him a run for his money. When it comes to the creative process we know very little of what goes on, and the Missing You clip is just one example of 37 songs for that project. It was still Mike that came up with the bassline, which is the best thing about it, and Tre's drum fills were better than anything Billie or Mike could have done. I think they all do their bit and they're happy with that. Plus I fail to believe that only one person came up with everything on the Trilogy, given how much of a clusterfuck it is in terms of styles. Even if it was an even split generally in terms of songwriting work, when one person comes up with a song it's not uncommon for it to be their baby and the others just back them up for it or suggest minor changes. It's been the same every time I've been in originals bands anyway, some songs work as a collaboration and others kind of need to be one person's brainchild so they don't lack focus or direction. Either way, I doubt Mike and Tre are unhappy with the situation.
Mykee Mexx Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 To me BJ is the motor, on stage, behind the stage, in his side projects, in interviews, kind of omnipresent... The shows are 100% him. Him leading everybody - the band and the audience. And to be honest, Mike´s singing... well... But you´re right, they grew together personally and musically, so they are one. That´s a point not to be underrated, I guess. But still, I believe you may find an appropriate drummer or bass player, but BJ´s the head that can´t be exchanged.
Spike Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 To me BJ is the motor, on stage, behind the stage, in his side projects, in interviews, kind of omnipresent... The shows are 100% him. Him leading everybody - the band and the audience. And to be honest, Mike´s singing... well... But you´re right, they grew together personally and musically, so they are one. That´s a point not to be underrated, I guess. But still, I believe you may find an appropriate drummer or bass player, but BJ´s the head that can´t be exchanged. Well yeah, no one's denying that Billie's in charge, but that's just what a bandleader does. It's true of most other bands in existence, the only one I can think of it not being is Fleetwood Mac, but that's an anomaly. The thing is with Mike and Tre is that even when they're doing simple, understated stuff they're absolutely world class. Unless you're talking about a funk or disco band, you don't notice how good a rhythm section is until they're not there, which is exactly what they're meant to be. They're the foundations for Billie to build on, and given how unpredictable he is live, that's vital to their success. I don't know what you mean about Mike's singing. Sure he might not be that strong a lead vocalist, but that's not what he's there for. When it comes to backing vocals he does nearly as much singing as Billie, and as a backing singer he's up there with the best of them. I've said it before, in terms of harmonies, especially live, Green Day are only just behind Fleetwood Mac, Queen and The Jordanaires as all time greats, to me.
Mykee Mexx Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 @Not Anyone: You are definitely right. Maybe I should see it from that point of view. When I listen to their music or see them on stage, I´m focused on BJ, because he´s so obviously present. I wouldn´t really miss one of the others if they were exchanged (say the substitute was a less good musician). I would so, if one of the Beatles had been exchanged, though... hm...
Spike Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 @Not Anyone: You are definitely right. Maybe I should see it from that point of view. When I listen to their music or see them on stage, I´m focused on BJ, because he´s so obviously present. I wouldn´t really miss one of the others if they were exchanged (say the substitute was a less good musician). I would so, if one of the Beatles had been exchanged, though... hm... Each to their own really, when I first got into Green Day all my attention was on Billie, since he's undoubtedly a fantastic frontman, singer, rhythm guitarist, songwriter, etc. He's undoubtedly the whole package. But I think, for that reason, there are very few people in the world who would understand him well enough and match his talent at the same time enough to be in a band with him and make it work as well as it does. I'm sure a lot of people only really focus on Billie, and that's perfectly understandable. But when it comes to a band like Green Day, who could so easily sound like every other pop-punk band out there, there's a lot to be said for their chemistry.
Mykee Mexx Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I used to have this perspective, but then I got to see the band up close and personal from the front row and.... yeah, it woudl be a crying shame if one of the others were exchanged for someone else because the band as a whole has this goofy chemistry and playfulness that wouldn't be the same if you took out one of the members. Also, you can really see how Mike, Tre, and Jason support Billie and make his antics possible. They really are a well-oiled machine. Well, I didn´t make it to the front row... got trapped in 8th or 9th, no way to concentrate on the others (hardly on anyone than on the one who was obviously the stage whore )... just got squashed and crushed... But then I possibly would have seen what you mean...
Spike Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I guess a lot of Billie's domination in terms of stage presence is down to the fact that Tre can't get a look in since he's sat at the back all night, it's not really Jason's place to hog the limelight and he wouldn't want to anyway, and Mike needs to keep the bass going while Billie drags the songs out. Aside from the fact he's the frontman and bandleader, no one is going to stand a chance against Billie in terms of attention when he can spend as long as he wants parading round the stage with his pants down while wearing a cowboy hat and shouting hey-oh and the rest of the band are just forced to keep repeating the same four bars until he remembers he should be playing a damn song. So he's naturally going to connect with people further back in the audience. The closest I've been is five rows back, and beyond that I've been up in the rafters. But my attention has always been on Mike due to the fact he's my musical hero and seeing him play live is always a mindblowing experience.
Guest Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I guess a lot of Billie's domination in terms of stage presence is down to the fact that Tre can't get a look in since he's sat at the back all night, it's not really Jason's place to hog the limelight and he wouldn't want to anyway, and Mike needs to keep the bass going while Billie drags the songs out. Aside from the fact he's the frontman and bandleader, no one is going to stand a chance against Billie in terms of attention when he can spend as long as he wants parading round the stage with his pants down while wearing a cowboy hat and shouting hey-oh and the rest of the band are just forced to keep repeating the same four bars until he remembers he should be playing a damn song. So he's naturally going to connect with people further back in the audience. The closest I've been is five rows back, and beyond that I've been up in the rafters. But my attention has always been on Mike due to the fact he's my musical hero and seeing him play live is always a mindblowing experience. I beg to differ there, I was right up the front at Brixton, and 99% of my interaction came through Mike and Tré. I'd nearly go so far as to say Billie came across as distant and aloof, it was very odd. Mike is a complete livewire on stage, as Kay has mentioned. Never stops bouncing around and making stupid faces. Tré can be the same, although at Brixton he was kinda quiet until JOS when he started showing off and looked like he was having a great time. My highlight of the show was him acknowledging that I was clapping in time to Dearly Beloved with a nod and a wink
Guest Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 ^^ yes to that. I remember feeling MUCH more connected to Billie when I was further back in the crowd. He seems to actually avoid eye contact or any connection with people up close to the stage. I wonder if it's because he has stage fright? I know from my time in public speaking (and my accompanying stage fright) that it's way easier to just focus on the mass of people in the middle/back of the audience than it is to make eye contact and acknowledge the people right up front and close to me. Possible explanation for why Billie kind of fails to connect with that front row of people. I dunno, that was my only experience in the front row and in such a small venue, so I have nothing to base it on really. He did interact a little with the front row, but everytime he looked at us it was almost as if he was looking through us. Probably has something to do with how much of his interaction is rehearsed (aka all of it ). Mike and Tré were definitely different.
Guest Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 That was my experience both times I was front row. The only time I felt connected to him at all was the time he made seriously prolonged eye contact with me before emptying his water gun in my face (omg that sounds perverted). But all the other fleeting moments when I caught his eye it was like he was looking straight through me, whereas Mike and even Tre were way more engaged and seemed like they were having fun when they made eye contact with anyone in the front row. Also, to speak to Billie's rehearsed actions onstage, again, I imagine that goes back to his (rumored) stage fright. The rehearsed shtick gets old fast. I understand it's there mostly for the fans who are just going for the greatest hits and stuff, but for the more intense fans it's a little cringey and eye-roll inducing. His Letterbomb speech (JOYJOYJOYJOYJOYJOYJOYJOYJOYJOYJOYJOYJOY) is probably the best example of this. Word for word the same, night after night. You'd think 20 years in one of the biggest bands on the planet would knock the stage fright out of him
Guest Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Definitely agreed that he should shake it up a bit with his speeches and stuff. However, it is a bit endearing (maybe this is the fangirl in me coming out?). It's kind of like an inside joke, the whole crowd gets worked up over it, but me and the other crazy fans are just kind of rolling our eyes and smirking... "Oh, there he goes again." Probably the fangirl, yeah. You'd think a man as opinionated as him would have something better to say to people rather than just say the same bland shit all the time
Mykee Mexx Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I experienced something similar with a rock-singer many years ago. He never felt comfortable on stage (BJ does, I´m sure), and it would help him not to contact people in the front row, but focus on the back (that´s what he told me; and often closing his eyes). And repeating the same stuff and jokes in between songs for years... I myself find it easier, too, to contact people in the middle of a crowd, when I´m on stage (not that I´m usually on stage...). Maybe it´s the natural focus, don´t know. Not too close, not too far away. But the right distance to stay in contact.
Spike Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Maybe that's it then. Of the four times I've seen them I was miles away for three of them and felt more connected with Billie. I suppose it makes sense for Mike and Tre to interact with people down the front in that case, it's just that I've only experienced it once. I did love it at Brixton how Mike kept showing off his Brixton tattoo, that really made me laugh. I wasn't bashing Billie's stage antics though, it's just very easy to find his cartoonish characteristics amusing.
Guest Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 That reminds me, Green Day missed a huge opportunity in not covering The Guns Of Brixton at the Brixton show. Or at least playing American Eulogy, which is Clash City Rockers
tammy_cool Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Don´t know whether this is an unpopular opinion. To me Green Day is (at least) 95% Billie Joe Armstrong. Tré and Mike are great in supporting him, good musicians, I guess, and I wouldn´t miss them. But sometimes I think, if they left the band Green Day would survive without them (well, maybe BJ wouldn´t...). If BJ left, Green Day was dead. He is Green Day, the rest is support. But I still want them all together. I think Billie himself would disagree with u there. I don't think Green Day would live on without Tre and Mike. I don't think Billie would be able to perform as well as he can now with anyone else. For a start, Mike is his best friend, I bet they can totally read each other. And Tre, well to quote Metal Hammer magazine - 'Remove Tre Cool from Green Day and u tear out the band's heart. And how many drummers can u say that about. Sorry, I just love that quote lol
Mykee Mexx Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Oh yes, a quarrel with Billie about this issue would be fine... It´ll end up with him introducing me to all the members of Green Day to proof me wrong. Yeah, I can handle that...
Anaïs. Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 In the old days, Mike was absolutely essential; unfortunately, the band's pretty Billie-centric now. These days, in terms of ability at least, any competent drummer could replace Tre.
Hermione Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 In the old days, Mike was absolutely essential; unfortunately, the band's pretty Billie-centric now. These days, in terms of ability at least, any competent drummer could replace Tre. Except they couldn't because without the friendship and chemistry they have they wouldn't be the same band. The whole inspiration for and point to them being a band is because they enjoy each other's company and making music and performing together, without that they wouldn't be Green Day. There's so much more to what makes the band work than just technical ability or how much or little each of them does. It's evident in the answer Mike always gives when he's asked for advice on starting a band - play with your friends, because you're friends and not because of anything else. I think it's clear that Green Day follow that philosophy and it's probably the main reason they've been successful and lasted so long.
Mykee Mexx Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I do agree with the last two posts, but the latter - to me - is the decisive answer.
JOE THE X-KID Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Billie is the soul, mike is the brain and tre the heart.
Anaïs. Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Billie is the soul, mike is the brain and tre the heart. And Jason is the guitarist.
Guest Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 And Jason is the guitarist. I wonder if Jason just joined Green Day as Billie's sober companion. He's ideally suited to the task.
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