Unpopular Green Day Opinions

[UNICORN VOMIT]

What could they have done to improve on the music? The presentation is a very, very important part of the music industry. It's just what it says it is: art.

I remember seeing some interview where the band made a conscious decision for AI that presentation was everything.

[The Grouch is Tracy]

The design and general aesthetic was absolutely fantastic. It was simple but very strong as a result, and tied the whole album and touring cycle together very well. Like it or not, visuals are very important, and it makes the whole thing seem incredibly focused. All of the greatest albums of all time are tied together with an aesthetic theme - Dark Side Of The Moon, Back In Black, Rumours, The Black Album... American Idiot is up there with the best of them in that respect. I don't quite understand why it would annoy you, can you explain? I thought after American Idiot the artwork for the Trilogy was relatively disappointing.

I agree that a theme can be a powerful and unifying force, but it can be too forced... Too much. I enjoy the artwork from AI, true enough, but I just can't seem to get over the fact that everything has to be so tied into each theme. To me it reminds me of merchandising, with the band and the look as the main product, not the actual album itself.

Sorry, I am not explaining myself very well.....I guess I don't know exactly how to put it into words.

[Anaïs.]

I agree that a theme can be a powerful and unifying force, but it can be too forced... Too much. I enjoy the artwork from AI, true enough, but I just can't seem to get over the fact that everything has to be so tied into each theme. To me it reminds me of merchandising, with the band and the look as the main product, not the actual album itself.

Sorry, I am not explaining myself very well.....I guess I don't know exactly how to put it into words.

I feel like the merchandising angle is largely the point—BJA has specifically said they were going with a propaganda theme to tie into the album's political message.

[munns6691]

So basically if the trilogy wasn't.the trilogy.

But what I'm saying is it would need two minor changes and one is in production. It wasn't that far away from being good.

[The Grouch is Tracy]

Considering the album is already beyond perfection and the tour was great, I'm not sure how it could have been, really.

Wait.... I am not referring to AI alone, which I agree, is simply magic, ok, here goes....

I will try to sum this up:

I feel like especially since it was so successful with American Idiot, the whole theme / coordination thing is annoying and detracts from the music to me.

[Anaïs.]

But what I'm saying is it would need two minor changes and one is in production. It wasn't that far away from being good.

The lyrics are far from a minor issue.

[HolyHandGrenade]

I agree that a theme can be a powerful and unifying force, but it can be too forced... Too much. I enjoy the artwork from AI, true enough, but I just can't seem to get over the fact that everything has to be so tied into each theme. To me it reminds me of merchandising, with the band and the look as the main product, not the actual album itself.

Sorry, I am not explaining myself very well.....I guess I don't know exactly how to put it into words.

Comparison:

Nimrod - no theme whatsoever. Result - amazing stand alone songs that are all over the place musically and aren't necessarily cohesive

vs

American Idiot - strong central theme + narrative. Result - Still some amazing songs, others not "as" good, but the lyrics and focused music aesthetically make for a much more memorable experience

This can be applied to concert set lists as well - I prefer the "Nimrod" experience, as it were, because I just don't care for popular casual fan songs.

[Z J]

But what I'm saying is it would need two minor changes and one is in production. It wasn't that far away from being good.

Changing all of the lyrics is not minor. And they would all need to be changed. Plus they completely forgot that bass lines and harmonies were allowed.

It was so far away from being good.

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

I strongly object to the fact that from AI through to the trilogy, Green Day's albums have been so packaged with themes. Not musical or lyrical, but the artwork, and clothes... First black and red with hand grenade... Mike, Tre and Billie, as well as all the others in the band, as well as the drum kit , stage backdrops etc, then black and red with graffiti , then the xx and dayglo colours of the trilogy. Why so theme-y and matchy? For myself as a crabby old lady, it just makes me annoyed. It also really limits the concert shirts that I would be seen dead in.....

I actually really enjoy the theming. When done correctly, it's a brilliant marketing strategy.

Like AI, for example. The theme, music, appearance and touring were all spot-on with that one. I don't know how anyone could argue that AI's theme was a bad choice. Because the album was such a huge movement, the surplus of matching merchandise was brilliant. I also love the contrast of the black and red... It's seriously gorgeous, and red is a powerful color. It sends a strong message that coincides with the album, and in 2005, whenever someone saw the scheme of colors paired together, I'm sure it was an obvious trigger to know it was something Green Day related.

The trilogy... I dunno. As I stated, I love contrasting colors, and I also love bright colors. So initially, I was so pumped for the psychedelic color scheme. But I've never been a fan of the stupid skull stuff. So, although I loved the color, the skulls all over all the merch seemed cheesy to me and less appealing, so I was less inclined to buy things with that on it. Or the arrows. I dunno, it all seemed weird. Something was off, so maybe it was the perfect choice, as that kind of fits the message of the trilogy, right?

I totally love that BJ's album theme had pink in it though. Love me some pink.

stay the night live is so perfect though!!! ugh

them playing it at the echoplex is one of my favorite gd performances ever, i don't even really know why. when i first heard it i got SO excited for the trilogy and now every time i listen to it that's what i think of.

Goddammit, no, that makes me too fucking emotional. So much potential. I remember getting chills the first time I heard that.

For all the trilogy hate and dislike let's be honest: with louder guitars and like 4 days more worth of attention to the lyrics by Billie and everyone's opinions would change.

That's what's so frustrating. Something is just... off. But there is potential. Which is more frustrating than it being a total flop and there being no foreseeable way to fix it. I really think different production could have made a world of difference, without those twangy ass guitars.

[stories and songs]

But what I'm saying is it would need two minor changes and one is in production. It wasn't that far away from being good.

I think that there were a great many things that felt "off" about the trilogy. That's truly the only way I can describe it. That said, I definitely understand what you mean by it not being too far away from being good. Because there were a handful of songs on each of the albums that were excellent - some of the best music they've ever created, in fact. To me, a song like Brutal Love is nothing short of a masterpiece. There are little gems hidden throughout, but the overall product needed just... more.

[Akshat]

The trilogy is the most creative thing they've ever done. Some tracks may not be that good but most of them were nice and a handful of them were masterpieces. No matter how much people cuss about it, I will always stand by the trilogy. And the reason it failed had nothing to do with the music.

[Guest]

I don't think there's any tangible argument for The Clash being better at writing lyrics then Billie Joe Armstrong. Does BJA write some crap? Yes. But you should consider the sheer volume of songs he's written.

I was simply referring to the chorus of KTDJ. If you think The Clash have never done anything better than that chorus then I'm pretty sure all of your opinions in this thread are voided

The trilogy is the most creative thing they've ever done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aZcVrTYNDs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiKQS6REEqU

Take your pick between those three for Green Day's most creative album. The Trilogy simply cannot be classed as "creative", seeing as every single one of the songs (except KTDJ, Nightlfe, and The Forgotten) follows exactly the same songwriting format GD have been using for 2 decades.

Also if you think there're no issues with the Trilogy musically, may I recommend an otolaryngologist?

[Z J]

I was simply referring to the chorus of KTDJ. If you think The Clash have never done anything better than that chorus then I'm pretty sure all of your opinions in this thread are voided

I was referring to both catalogs as a whole. I think Hannah Montana has more worth while stuff then the KTDJ chorus

[tammy_cool]

I'm sad that kill the dj seems to have so much hate. I love that song, very under rated. Granted its not the best lyrically, but I find it quite catchy. It doesn't really deserve the shit it's getting. That's just my unpopular opinion though

[DookieLukie]

I was simply referring to the chorus of KTDJ. If you think The Clash have never done anything better than that chorus then I'm pretty sure all of your opinions in this thread are voided

Take your pick between those three for Green Day's most creative album. The Trilogy simply cannot be classed as "creative", seeing as every single one of the songs (except KTDJ, Nightlfe, and The Forgotten) follows exactly the same songwriting format GD have been using for 2 decades.

Also if you think there're no issues with the Trilogy musically, may I recommend an otolaryngologist?

No American Idiot as a creative Green Day work?

[Guest]

No American Idiot as a creative Green Day work?

Nah, it's mostly similar stuff to what they'd always been doing, just on a more epic scale. Bongos and fusing 4 songs together are just about the extent of the creativity.

[The Disappearing Boy]

Nah, it's mostly similar stuff to what they'd always been doing, just on a more epic scale. Bongos and fusing 4 songs together are just about the extent of the creativity.

You might need one of these:

[Spike]

You might need one of these:

He's right, though. Obviously it's the most focused the band have ever been and as an album it's pretty much perfect, but strip away the huge sounding production and the stitching of songs together and it's not particularly different to previous albums. It's clearly of higher quality in terms of scope and lyrics, but ultimately it's just another Green Day album. A lot of the songs are diminished out of the context of the album, which can hurt it slightly.

[The Disappearing Boy]

He's right, though. Obviously it's the most focused the band have ever been and as an album it's pretty much perfect, but strip away the huge sounding production and the stitching of songs together and it's not particularly different to previous albums. It's clearly of higher quality in terms of scope and lyrics, but ultimately it's just another Green Day album. A lot of the songs are diminished out of the context of the album, which can hurt it slightly.

Couldn't agree more. I don't know if anyone else will though, which is why I though Ceadog might need protection!

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

As much as I love AI, I agree with you guys. Epic and creative are two completely different things. On the surface, AI might seem creative, but really it's just an epic, focused and successfully executed extension of mostly things they've already done. I'd agree with Kay and say Nimrod is their most creative, especially since it was their first risky album in terms of expanding out of their comfort zone.

The trilogy is the most creative thing they've ever done. Some tracks may not be that good but most of them were nice and a handful of them were masterpieces. No matter how much people cuss about it, I will always stand by the trilogy. And the reason it failed had nothing to do with the music.

Oh really? Why did it fail then? I'm curious.

[Akshat]

Take your pick between those three for Green Day's most creative album. The Trilogy simply cannot be classed as "creative", seeing as every single one of the songs (except KTDJ, Nightlfe, and The Forgotten) follows exactly the same songwriting format GD have been using for 2 decades.

Also if you think there're no issues with the Trilogy musically, may I recommend an otolaryngologist?

Nimrod is a creative album and it was their most creative album till the trilogy came out. Nimrod had a whole lot of songs with varying compositions. But the trilogy had all of that and a lot more stuff. Power Pop, Garage Rock, Dance Punk etc

How could you even call 21st CB a creative album? It was a rip off of all the old green day records, mostly American Idiot. The only new things we saw were Viva La Gloria and Last Night on Earth.It was a over-produced, over-hyped record which survived on the success of American Idiot.

The songwriting you're talking about is nothing different from that of Nimrod or Warning or basically any other GD record. Then why is it that Nimrod is deemed a creative record for using the same format as the trilogy but the latter is not? The Trilogy had 37 songs. Maybe not all were good, but a majority of them were amazing. And tbh, the trilogy's sound was different in comparison to the other GD records. I have always loved Nimrod more than any other GD album and it is their best record. But being the best does not mean it has to be more creative. Creativity is all about trying out new things and the trilogy was full of it.

I never said the trilogy was a perfect musical record. But if you think it sucked as a whole just because of a few songs, I recommend you to lookout for an orthopedist before I reduce your bone count to 203, one bone for each element of the trilogy.

Oh really? Why did it fail then? I'm curious.

1. Poor promotion, even before Billie's rehab

2. Billie's rehab.

4. The negativity around it just because people thought releasing 3 album worth of songs would make the record suck.

We went over all of this after the trilogy's release, surprising of you to bring that up.

It happens every time, I remember the same shit being said when 21st CB was released and even when AI or Warning were released. I can't recollect before warning as I was too young. We had the forums here where we discussed if we liked the record or not. I found majority of the people singing praises for Uno Dos and Tre. They were recieved well by the critics too, which is amazing because they maintained the same critical praise for all three records. People were predicting #1 debuts. But just because that did not happen does not mean the trilogy sucked. In a few years from now, y'all would be jabbering about how good the trilogy was and how brave it was for GD to release it. They headlined festivals and shows with an audience of 50000+, I guess more times than what they did for 21stCB.

[Hermione]

I liked your post, but I want to point out I don't like the 21st CB part . Totally agree about the trilogy's lack of success.

[Spike]

How could you even call 21st CB a creative album? It was a rip off of all the old green day records, mostly American Idiot. The only new things we saw were Viva La Gloria and Last Night on Earth.It was a over-produced, over-hyped record which survived on the success of American Idiot.

I do agree with the rest of your post, but I can't get my head around this. Yes, the odd song borrowed from old Green Day songs, but it was never in a major way. A melody here, a chord progression there, a stolen Hives riff there, etc. But on the whole it was very creative. The whole thing of using personal relationships as a metaphor for political discourse might not have worked quite as well as it should have, but it was a great idea and was nearly there. They may have been riding the success of American Idiot in terms of production, but at the time they were into doing huge sounding songs, and as such it always seemed entirely organic. I don't see the problem, once you make the leap from pop punk to arena rock the next natural progression is stadium rock, which is what Breakdown is. It's not overproduced, it was overcompressed by Ted Jensen, the mastering engineer, and the uncompressed version sounds infinitely better, and you really get to hear the subtle nuances in the music that aren't there in the original release. Butch's production on this album is absolutely fantastic. Peacemaker is easily one of the most creative songs they've ever done, Restless Heart Syndrome is an absolute masterclass in tension and release, Viva La Gloria is something new entirely, Last Night On Earth is the most vulnerable song they've ever done. The only songs I don't like are Know Your Enemy, which is saved by great production, and Christian's Inferno, which is a poor Dead Kennedys ripoff but at least it's something new for Green Day. You don't have to like it, but to say it's not creative is just a fallacy.

[munns6691]

The lyrics are far from a minor issue.

Were they THAT major though? Most of the songs have good bones and some songs are 1 or 2 lines away from pretty good. Dos doesn't count because aside from Lazy bones, Amy and Ashley those songs should have been foxboro hot tubs.

[Anaïs.]

Were they THAT major though? Most of the songs have good bones and some songs are 1 or 2 lines away from pretty good. Dos doesn't count because aside from Lazy bones, Amy and Ashley those songs should have been foxboro hot tubs.

As with Ceadog, I cannot understand why people make that claim. Almost nothing on Dos sounds like the Foxies, and the Foxies still have superior lyrics to most of the stuff on the Trilogy.