Plagiarism?

[mcpork86]

Hello.... sorry for the provocative title... but since somebody posted here that the riff of loss of control is exactly the same as jawbreaker's pack it up,

i looked at the booklet of uno and found at the bottom some extra connotations to carpe diem, kill the dj and loss of control. "and son" corresponds to the band "the jam", "hynge house of hits" to the pretenders and "1000 lights music" i don't know, i was only able to google a reference to madonna.

does anyone have any thougts on this? is the record company aware that there are some similarities, even if unintentional? maybe through automatic software filters these days that could detect overlaps big enough for the above-mentioned bands' record labels to sue warner bros? so that they decided it makes no sense to not make a deal with them in the first place to not let there be a fuzz about it at some point in the media that could be disturbing?

thanks for your opinions, i'm curios

mcpork86

[WhiteTim]

Could be they helped with writing or GD used lyrics or music from those bands and they if so they have to clear the samples

[porksoda]

Well first off, if they cited their sources, they didn't actually plagiarize. But I'm curious to all the little footnotes in the album now that you brought it up.

Green Day seems to be kind of bad at noticing that their new stuff ends up sounding like other songs, but I don't think they're intentionally copying other bands/songs. I think it's just a coincidence. I mean, punk bands have about 4 chords to work with (as the joke goes), so you're bound to run into similar riffs. Hell, I can't tell you how many times I've written a song, and then somebody tells me, "That's already a song!" And the same goes for my band. We just figured out that our best song is a blend of "Shut Up" by blink 182 and "Impossible" by Sloppy Meateaters, and my friend hadn't even heard of the Sloppy Meateaters!

My point is, it happens.

[BornToLose]

jawbreaker was around the same time green day was, even from the bay area. some believe jawbreaker was overlooked because of green days success, but the guitarist Adam Pfahler actually said green day IS the reason they had the little success they did. but it's all the same man, you can take one song and hear 100 other songs in it, some more than others. (like this song for example) it's all been done before. what can you do but make it your own, with your own style, flair, charisma, and tone.

but if you haven't ever listened to jawbreaker you're missing out. Blake Schwarzenbach is an INCREDIBLE lyricist, like a descendant of Shakespeare or something.

[frunsi]

[mcpork86]

Yeah, agree with all that, but how come these connotations in the booklet then?

By the way, thanks for your interesting replies! Also I'm gonna listen to Jawbreaker again.

is it just like that these days due to automatic software filters that detect any unintentional coincidences?

[BlackBaboon]

Does anyone have a copy of older albums handy? I'm just curious if there's anything in those because we've all certainly heard of 'plagiarism' occurring in songs American Idiot, City of the Damned, Warning, Waiting, and Brain Stew.

[mcpork86]

Nothing like that in the American Idiot album, and probably also not in the older ones except clear cover songs such as Knowledge or Tired of Waiting or My Generation, otherwise I think I would have noticed back then..

[Jax Teller]

The song "Pack it Up" belongs to The Pretenders.Jawbreaker - Pack it Up is a cover.

Green Day just use the starting riff of this song but the rest of the song differs and have given the song their own energy.

Let's stop dealing with these people.It happens in music.Let's not make such big issues.

They have three albums out there waiting for us.

[WrongWayToSalvation]

@ Troublemaker

Then why the hell do 3 albums if you're going to use some riffs and sounds from other bands in your songs? They're already reusing some their own melodies and guitar riffs.

[WhiteTim]

Think of it as like rap does sampling something old and make it sound new

[Jax Teller]

@ Troublemaker

Then why the hell do 3 albums if you're going to use some riffs and sounds from other bands in your songs? They're already reusing some their own melodies and guitar riffs.

Because what they want and they do and if you don't like it's your problem.

I will not debate with you.

Think of it as like rap does sampling something old and make it sound new

Several independent groups do this.For me there is nothing that needs so much talk.

[WhiteTim]

Me neither hell i saw that and just assumed it was Jason's publishing

[Guest MadeInRatCity]

It's all about taking all those musical genres and puttin' 'em in a blender. And there we get it.

[mcpork86]

@ Troublemaker

Then why the hell do 3 albums if you're going to use some riffs and sounds from other bands in your songs? They're already reusing some their own melodies and guitar riffs.

That's why I originally started this thread. I want to find out what's going on. For me this is important! Like WrongWayToSalvation said, they have been so heavily reusing their own stuff already in AI and especially 21st (let alone other people's stuff). These things occur to me immediately and make them cheap to me, sadly so, and that first occured on AI. Now I'm probably always willing to forget my disappointment about that since they once meant so much to me, and since I'm generally positive towards the attitude they promote their new album with, but some scepticism remains and I want to get rid of it. I mean, still, also for Uno, when I hear Let Yourself Go, Maria directly pops up, and same for Rusty James and Scattered, or for Carpe Diem and Do Da Da from the Brain Stew single. Of course this is nothing all too tragic and nothing compared to AI and 21st, and of course you'd ask yourself what reason could they have to do THAT on purpose, but still... I'd like to know more. Nuclear Family is my favorite by the way, I like that one very much.

In any case, that's how I got aware of the connotations at the bottom of the booklet. Who puts those there, and why?

Thanks for all the other interesting replies though! Though the initial question is still unanswered to me: What about those specific connotations in the booklet?

mcpork86

[Ryan]

As I've mentioned before in other threads, there is a HUGR difference between something sounding like something else and actually being something else. Everybody who looks at these songs and says it's an "exact" rip of of something else is completely full of shit. Does let yourself go sound a bit like maria at the very beginning...sure. But it's not exactly the same and the similarities end after the vocals come in. I personally admire the band's ability to be able to use some riffs that are similar in nature to some of their older stuff allk while managing to make a completely different song out of it.

[BornToLose]

jawbreaker and green day actually have a lot of similar riffs. here's another example with the same chord structure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37dBq_4TsZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl-N8JhRIog

[Blond-O-Sonic Shimmer Trap]

As I've mentioned before in other threads, there is a HUGR difference between something sounding like something else and actually being something else. Everybody who looks at these songs and says it's an "exact" rip of of something else is completely full of shit. Does let yourself go sound a bit like maria at the very beginning...sure. But it's not exactly the same and the similarities end after the vocals come in. I personally admire the band's ability to be able to use some riffs that are similar in nature to some of their older stuff allk while managing to make a completely different song out of it.

That sounds like denial to me. You can't possibly see a band, who already stick to a set formula to begin with the vast majority of the time, re-using riffs and melodies and admire that, unless you are just a deluded fanboy. People who spot these things are not "full of shit", they see things for what they are, the people who are full of shit are the ones who realise and dance around the fact that the band re-use stuff with excuses like "it's not that similar" or trying to spin it as somehow a good thing or a showcase of some kind of talent. Wilful ignorance.

[Ryan]

That sounds like denial to me. You can't possibly see a band, who already stick to a set formula to begin with the vast majority of the time, re-using riffs and melodies and admire that, unless you are just a deluded fanboy. People who spot these things are not "full of shit", they see things for what they are, the people who are full of shit are the ones who realise and dance around the fact that the band re-use stuff with excuses like "it's not that similar" or trying to spin it as somehow a good thing or a showcase of some kind of talent. Wilful ignorance.

If you read my post, I said that people who say it is "exact" are full of shit. The term exact requires that every little single piece of a song are the same as another. That is just not the case with ANY of their songs.

and I said that my admiration comes from their ability to make completely different songs out of similar riffs. Deadbeat Holiday and American Eulogy are completely different in terms of their overall vibe and sound, but the vocal lines are incredibly similar. Shit like that doesn't bother me at all. Scattered and Last Gang in Town have a similar sound, but again...a completely different vibe and feeling.

[mcpork86]

It's a good thing that people perceive music in totally differing ways. I noticed often that some people perceive music rather as a technician than an artist. Maybe those people don't care so much about reusings as long as they are engineered well together, who knows!? But it's not the reusings of own stuff alone, I could be ok with that. With the abundant and obvious plagiarism of other band's songs on top of it, in the sum of it it's just too much however.

American Eulogy is so much reminiscent to Deadbeat Holiday from the first time I heard it, and it's mainly the sound. To me, that's cheap, and I can't take the song serious. It's just a letdown, I want something new. So that I can't get the tune out of my head, and so that I can identify with it.

Anybody got any ideas on the footnotes mentioned in the first post of this thread?

Thanks for your replies!

mcpork86

[Sarahnade]

@ Troublemaker

Then why the hell do 3 albums if you're going to use some riffs and sounds from other bands in your songs? They're already reusing some their own melodies and guitar riffs.

I feel like this argument is pointless. There's so much music out there that something is bound to sound similar to someone else's song.

[mcpork86]

Makes it a lot easier to write 30+ songs in one summer if you just listen around a little bit.

Like you'd take a song that you know and like, and start from there. That's like school bands do when they start.

jawbreaker and green day actually have a lot of similar riffs. here's another example with the same chord structure.

[Pieces of Truth]

I don't care as long as I like what I hear, fuck me, right?!

[darrenstreetlight]

I don't really wish to get involved with the ethical side of this issue but, being quite interested in music history, it can be fun and curious to hear echoes of other songs in Green Day's material.

I've noticed and been notified of numerous similarities over the years, some of which have been mentioned on this forum. I suspect this has already been noted, but the intro to 'Before the Lobotomy' sounded extremely familiar the first time I heard it. Not sure if anyone has a better source, but one song that springs to mind is that of some 14 year old kid from the 70s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo7s4rwLnCI