C&V new or original

[scottrowan200]

this may have been talked about before but i didnt know where to look

so we all know about the stolen album

but after reading the topic about theams ect and how much AE is like C&V lyric wise

do you guys think this track is from the old stolen album or do you think they made this around or after the 21CB era and they just used the title

am thinking this because of the lyrical contet with 21CB it fits with

[Punk-tastic32]

I'm pretty sure Green Day wouldn't go write a song and call it 'Cigarettes and Valentines' just to fit with the 'story' of the stolen album.

[pasalaska]

Even though there are similarities to American Eulogy's lyrics, the fact that American Eulogy is about or at least makes reference to the Global Financial Crisis means that it was written or at least modified after the GFC, so it's gotta be a LOT more recent than C&V, which was years before the GFC.

I really doubt that they'd write a new C&V.

Plus, Billie himself said, when they first played it in Denver 'it ain't that new'.

[Hermione]

Yeah pretty sure it's the original. It's true there are lyrical similarities between C&V and AE, but it wouldn't be the first time there's been lyrical similarities between Green Day songs years apart. Obviously there's a lot of variety in Billie's lyrics but there are recurring themes/phrases/words etc that pop up regularly through the years too. Not that odd for a songwriter to use a phrase twice a few years apart.

[Bastard of 1967]

this may have been talked about before but i didnt know where to look

so we all know about the stolen album

but after reading the topic about theams ect and how much AE is like C&V lyric wise

do you guys think this track is from the old stolen album or do you think they made this around or after the 21CB era and they just used the title

am thinking this because of the lyrical contet with 21CB it fits with

My thinking:

1. C&V is indeed "the real thing" from Green Day's pre-American Idiot fucking-around-in-the-studio work.

2. There was an album planned that C&V would anchor or at least appear on.

3. Green Day decided to scrap the album as they were working on it, but because they wanted to go in a different direction creatively -- not because the tapes were stolen or anything like that.

4. The tapes being stolen make for a fun "urban legend" that will never be proven or disproven.

5. I'm glad they kept the song on the back burner 'til they were ready to share it -- I like it a lot!

[scottrowan200]

a guess i thought maybe they named it that for a joke lol

great song anyway

[Fuzz]

I remember one of the things I said on the podcast when this came out, was that this wasn't proof of the old album but rather that "they wrote a song in the last 8 years called "Cigarettes and Valentines." However, I do now believe that they really did have this stuff and just never did anything with it.

Remember during the Q&A with Chris Dugan and Bill Scheinder, someone asked about the C&V album and they said something along the lines of "that whole situation was just messed up", or something like that. It made it seem like something had happened with someone they worked with, and the band was just now feeling comfortable about using this material. I may be reading WAY to much into it, and I don't actually know that to be the case - but that was my assumption.

[koolkev]

REEEEEEAAAAAAAAL!!

[Lindsay]

Definitely the original version. I know that's pretty much what everyone else has said, I just thought I'd reinforce their point.

[BadgerLALA]

Definitely the original version. I know that's pretty much what everyone else has said, I just thought I'd reinforce their point.

Same here. I'm with everyone else

[Guest EDIT]

Was Olivia supposed to be from the "lost album" too?

[greendepent]

For me, its real. Is not new that BJ uses old phrases or ideas on newer songs.

St. Jimmy, American Idiot or the whole 21st CB are good examples of this.

[Kristen M]

Real. I think to think AE is just a shout out to CV haha but that's just me

[Hermione]

Real. I think to think AE is just a shout out to CV haha but that's just me

I like that idea! It's very much possible, especially since they probably didn't have any plans to release C&V when they wrote AE. That's how I'm gonna think of it from now on . Like the "2000 miles away-ay" shout out to 2000 Light Years Away in Westbound Sign.

[Guest]

i like the studio version

[Red Lights Flash]

I think it's real.

They probably stole a few lines from C&V and used them for American Eulogy, because they never thought those lyrics would ever see the light of day anyway.

[Burnout98]

REEEEEEAAAAAAAAL!!

What?

Anyway, I do think that it was recorded earlier, because i dont they would name a song Cigarettes and Valentines just because of the story about it years earlier,

[Eldoon]

I think Bastard of 1967 has the right idea. The whole "stolen master tapes" thing has always been fishy, and Billie's contradicted that story a few times in different interviews. If the tapes were stolen, why havn't they leaked yet? Why would someone steal master tapes and then sit on them for this long, ESPECIALLY after the success of AI? It makes no sense.

I think the most likely thing that happened is that GD were working on a follow-up to Warning with Cavallo, had tracks like C&V and Favorite Son already written for it, but weren't happy with the overall quality of their output. Meanwhile, they had sketches of American Idiot songs that they liked better, and decided to start from scratch. They recorded the Network album to blow off some steam and get creative juices flowing (just like they did with Stop, Drop, and Roll) and then set about creating American Idiot in earnest.

Then again, I'm not the authority. Maybe it's a whole other matter -- maybe someone in the GD camp fucked with the tapes, maybe there was some kind of snafu with recording studio workers, who knows. I just hope that one day we get to hear more tracks from that period.

[Karen.]

I think Stay the Night is from Cigarettes & Valentines. Similar themes.