The Oldest Debate in the Books

[Solitary One]

I dont buy into this old Green Day new Green Day thing at all

Its all Green Day

My thoughts exactly.

[The Disappearing Boy]

I always wondered what generated the change that occurred between Warning and American Idiot. You see it especially in documentary films. AI won them a lot of fans, but it also lost them a lot of fans, and is the general dividing point between old and new, and i can see why. At Warning they seemed more relaxed on stage wearing t-shirts or vests and trousers, more goofing around and more verbal interaction with the crowd.

That all changed with American Idiot. The songs sounded different, even from a technical point of view. They had a uniform on stage, their live shows were very similar and had a different stage presence about them. I wonder what bought about such a change, besides growing up, and getting a political point of view.

[Ingrid]

I don't see the "old" and "new" two distinct, separate things at all. I mean, you can see their evolution through all their albums, it wasn't just a straight jump from Kerplunk/Dookie style to American Idiot style. They experimented and progressed on every album and their lyrics were already much more outward looking on Warning - way before AI.

And looking at their stage show, again you can see that gradual progression to the more theatrical style of today starting as early as Nimrod and already looking very similar to how it does now by the Pop Disaster tour. I love being able to look back and see their gradual progression.

The only way I can really see to accurately separate the "old" and "new" Green Day is if you do it based on their clothes and eyeliner wearing habits . I think that's probably one of the main reasons for this debate existing. Personally, my 4 favourite Green Day albums are 21st CB, Nimrod, Dookie and American Idiot. I have no preference for any particular Green Day era, it's all good!

As I pretty much always do, I agree with what Hermione said on this one

[Katarina.]

I love Green Day. I don't care about all these discussions about old or new stuff. They do what they want, and I love it. <3

[Starred Thoughts]

The American Idiot era ("new") was what got me into Green Day, but I also felt myself gravitating towards their "older" work. Regardless, I have an appreciation for both sides, if you want to call it that. To me, any of their music will always be Green Day in general, without a real divide in terms of the chronological order of their sound. Whether it be new or old, for me personally I prefer both.

[Angie-Marie]

well, they're not 18 anymore, they're alduts. And their desire of experiment is what makes their music so great. I think is better that they have more "sounds", because, otherwise, you'll get bored. Can you imagine having 15 records, all of them sounding exactly the same to the others?

Exactly. They've grown up and who seriously wants to be in their 30s and still be doing the exact same thing they were doing when they were 18? You can't just keep turning out the same thing over and over again. It's boring creatively and it's boring to everybody else.

What if Green Day were still writing songs about girls and masturbation now that they're all pushing forty?

Bands can change. People can change. And I'm glad for it.

I've always seen the decision to go in a new direction with American Idiot as a big "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of situation. If they decided to try and write another Dookie album, you just know there would have been an onslaught of critics saying, "These guys are in their 30s and they're STILL going about weed and jacking off?" or "Looks like Green Day is desperately trying to recapture their popularity." And if they took a new direction, of course there would be critics who would be mad that they aren't still writing songs like Longview. They wouldn't have been able to really win either way, but the way they went worked out for the best.

[blitzkriegdeb]

They're 37 year old men with wives/girlfriends and children, obviously things are going to change. They had way too much talent to stay underground, and once they broke through to the mainstream, they realized that they can keep pushing themselves to new musical limits. Of course it caused a backlash in the punk scene, and they, I'm sure to this day, are plagued by it at least a bit.

The point I'm trying to get at is, making every album sound the same would've been boring and repetitive. I love listening to "old" Green Day, because of the simplicity of it, but at the same time, I love listening to "new" Green Day to hear the complex music and lyrics.

[Guitar4Girl]

To be honest the whole issue doesn't matter to me, they're normal people and they're allowed to change, grow-up and do what they want in life. I know that in 20 years time i'll probably also be a bit different, it's just normal. I think their style of music has changed slightly, they don't talk about girls etc anymore like they used to, I think ithey've also become a bit more mainstream/likeable music but even so I don't have a problem with that. They're a great band and them getting older won't change that for me

[Sarahnade.]

They can do whatever the fuck they want.

[ScreamsInSilence815]

They can do whatever the fuck they want.

This.

[Juliette]

I love all of their albums, but let's face it, if they'd kept doing 39/Smooth or Kerplunk sounding stuff for 20 years, we'd be bored, they'd be bored, and there wouldn't be much point to it. I don't see any sort of arguement here, they matured and became better at what they do as every single person does. They're still Green Day, they still make great music. Problem ? Eh, no.

Also, you listen to 21CB and you listen to 1039/SOSH, you can tell it's the same band - there are still similarities, they've just developed and refined their music over the years. I don't understand how people can say, "Oh yeah I love old Green Day but new Green Day are shit." or whatever. There's not a huge difference if you strip all their songs down to basics.

[LetItBeHappy]

They can do whatever the fuck they want.

Amen

[MascaraTears]

They have the right to do whatever they want. any band does. as long as they're doing whatever they're doing because THEY want to, not because America/their label/whoever wants them to, and Green Day definitely fits into the first category. in terms of personal preference, in general I prefer their newer music, mainly because their musical talent is showcased more and used to its full potential. But I also love the majority of their older songs.

[Supermodel*Robot]

I've actually been having this debate with myself for the past few weeks. I feel myself leaning to the "old Green Day", but then I realize that without new Green Day, I wouldn't be listening to them in the first place. I think you have to be able to take each of their albums at face value. Dookie is an incredible album. 21st Century Breakdown is an incredible album. I could sit here and say that I miss Mike's sick bass lines & all the ridiculous drum fills, but I couldn't sit here and tell you I dislike the new songs. At least we have both sides to enjoy. If I want to listen to the old style, I can go pick up Insomniac or whatever and enjoy that. If I want to listen to the new stuff, I'll pick up 21st CB. But if they only ever did old Green Day, there wouldn't even be a choice in the matter.

And on a more personal note, I mean the guys have kids and wives & a whole new onslaught or responsibilities. I can't think about any person I know with a 14 year-old kid that writes songs/poetry/blogs about infatuation or masturbation. It's just not where they're at anymore. They had to grow up at some point, and to be honest, at least they're creating themselves a legacy. If they'd gone back to writing like Dookie, they'd just be branded has-beens. Even hardcore "old" fans wouldn't be excited by the repetition. Like the old stuff? Go listen to Dookie and stop complaining. You have 1039, Kerplunk, Dookie & Insomniac for a reason.

[the48maychick]

I love both old and new, and I don't think that one is necessarily better than the other.

[Rosie May]

I love both old and new, and I don't think that one is necessarily better than the other.

That's pretty much exactly what I think.

[dolce]

I don't really care for deeming their music "old" and "new". It's the same band. I love the band's body of work as a whole. Has their sound progressed over the years? Obviously, yes. But did their message ever change? I don't think so. They still encourage people to be themselves, to take risks, to live life, to stand up for what they believe in, that it's okay to be confused, or scared, or angry, or in love - this has NEVER changed. Ever. More importantly, the guys have never changed. Grown up, yes, but changed? No. And that's the exact way I'd describe their music. It's grown up with them. The truth is, it wouldn't be natural for Billie to write the same way he did when he was 17. There isn't one writer on this planet that could do that. He's lived more, and his talent as a songwriter has grown.

I respect the band for pushing themselves and going out of their comfort zone. There aren't many bands who can do that well. And, IMO - there aren't any bands that have done it as fucking awesome as Green Day.

[Fuzz]

Here's why the argument isn't a good one to have, because both sides are wrong

I agree with bullet, ScreamsInSilence815 and Logan who all mentioned that it's all Green Day. Comparing old to new is pointless.

People evolve, their inspiration and problems will evolve, their feelings and music will evolve. If Green Day stayed the same as they did in Dookie and nimrod I would have stopped listening out of boredom. I don't like music that is all the same. Green Day has worked to evolve as musicians, and that does mean that the music changes along with that, and I think that's a good thing.

[Juan]

I prefer them when they experiment recklessly. Both Nimrod and 21stCB are highly experimental albums, the biggest mistake a band can make is do the same album over and over again.

[bjrules]

My 2 favourite Green Day albums are American Idiot and Kerplunk, so I obviously love their old and new music. I became a fan in the American Idiot era, and I quickly went out and got all of their older albums and I love them just as much as the new ones. I'm personally happy that Green Day aren't singing about masturbation and weed any more, because they are 37 years old with wives and children. They have grown older, so it makes sense that they would sing about more mature issues.

[Sharmellow]

Let me just say, I love all Green Day. Everything they've produced, recorded, made, whatever. I adore them. Both 'old' and 'new'. Their music shouldn't be categorized though as old and new. Like someone pointed out, it's ALL Green Day. No matter what age and era. People shouldn't have to make a big deal of 'oooh, I like the old Green Day so much better' or vice versa. All their material is still made by the same group.

Green Day has grown up, that's a known fact. If a fan doesn't appreciate the change, then fine. Their lost, everyone has different tastes and opinions. All their music is varied, no songs sound exactly the same. (Unlike some bands who rip us off by using the same riff+concept of the song in their later albums or have the same sound)

[Tiffx]

American Idiot got me into Green Day, and I love that album to death. It was when I started going back and listening to their older stuff that I realised how much they have evolved and I really do appreciate the evolution of their music. They are an innovative band and that's what keeps people interested and it keeps the band relevant. But like most people have said, at the end of the day they will always be Green Day.

It just really irritates me when people make generalisations about Dookie and assume that all Green Day used to write about was 'masturbation and boredom'. They have always expressed ideas of individuality, anger and frustration through their music and lyrics. Just look at a song like Having A Blast, there are some pretty heavy emotions in that song. Nothing they stand for today is new, the same ideas have always been there. Maybe there have been some contextual changes in terms of the ideas conveyed since AI, but definitely nothing conceptually new.

But I have to admit, I do look back at older Green Day shows throughout the 90s and wish I could have experienced that. I get nostalgic feelings looking at older interviews when they were younger and I didn't even know Green Day existed back then.

[Ila Reto]

im an all-eras fan. i started out in the american idiot era and i hate being stereotyped as a new fan.

its like i've constantly had to defend myself for years that im not just some fangirl, because thats the first thing that comes to mind when you tell somebody "im a green day fan" now.

Here's why the argument isn't a good one to have, because both sides are wrong

i understand that, and the point of the thread is for both sides (who both have strong points) to talk about it, and then reach that conclusion. im sick of all the separation (not on here, but througout the general fanbase) and i think people should be able to recognize that neither size is better because its all one band.

EuGJaMMeR

The time between 2004 and 2009 was not as long as 1987 to 2000..

Well you have a lot of good points. Still, for older fans.. You know, when someone asks you what your favorite band is, you might answer Green Day. But then the one who asked you would think 'Oh, those guys playing 21 Guns.. or Give Me Novacaine'. Green Day's songs are as popular as other mainstream bands nowadays that they seem so common. Saying you like Green Day to average people is like saying you simply like American Idot.

And look how soft these are.. When you say 'I like Green Day', the person you are talking to woudn't remember or even know songs like Redundant, Armatage Shanks, She, Waiting, the Judge's Daughter, Going to Pasalacqua.. etc.

It's annoying when you say you like Green Day and everyone else starts to go American Idiot and don't even know what 1000 Hours is.

jinxfink

know right? for me, when people ask or i have music added to a presentation or something, i usually just end up saying "Sweet Children....they're from the 80s you wouldnt know them" lol.

it really is a sad thing, and i agree 100%. you say you like green day and all of a sudden everyone's calling you emo and a poser. and it sucks. its sucked for 4 years and it still sucks.

i guess im just constantly trying to defend myself as a fan of all eras and not be stereotyped as a teenie, yknow?

and you have a lot of good points too. actually, usually when i have these discussions it ends up being just another arguements and then insults are thrown and its just the same thing over and over again.

i like a little debate though, it opens perspectives.

[Supermodel*Robot]

But I have to admit, I do look back at older Green Day shows throughout the 90s and wish I could have experienced that. I get nostalgic feelings looking at older interviews when they were younger and I didn't even know Green Day existed back then.

I feel the same way. It's like...I adore Green Day as they are, but they seemed so cool back in the 90's & I wish I could've experienced that. I get the sense that if I had, I might not like new Green Day. Which leaves me confused & a bit grateful that I'm able to look at it from both sides.

I actually was talking to my teacher yesterday & he was complaining that all new music is too soft & he hates 21stCB & that Green Day lost what they had in the 90's. I argued that the new music isn't worse, it's just different. Which he was able to accept, but he doesn't like this genre the way he likes heavy-hitting stuff & there's nothing that can change that. Yes, my teacher is cool enough to have this discussion with me.

[Tiffx]

^ Exactly how I feel about it. But people are going to either hate what they're doing now or love it and that's just the way it is. Some of us might look at their music being differently expressed now and perceive it as a positive progression. Others are just going to want to tear them down for changing dramatically and refuse to accept or even understand the evolution of their music.

I'm just grateful I discovered a band like Green Day and get to appreciate their music.