The Breakdown of 21st Century Breakdown

[Boston]

I wanted to create a thread where we could all move beyond our favorite/least favorite songs and initial reactions and analyze the album.

I think the character of Christian portrayed a young man who was conflicted with whether or not he could live in the world he does and believe in the causes he believes in while still maintaining his belief in God.

There were a few lyrics that caught my eye as well:

"And the deaf-mute is misleading the choir" (American Eulogy: Mass Hysteria)

We just read The Catcher in the Rye in my English class, and Holden mentioned that he wanted to be a deaf-mute. For those who haven't read the book, the main character, Holden Caulfield, is experiencing a nervous-breakdown related to him not wanting to face reality/grow up, and he therefore wants to retreat from society. I wonder if the inspiration for that lyric came from the book.

"I crossed the desert

Reaching higher ground

Then I pound the pavement

To take the liars down"

I feel like that line represents Christian's struggle to live in the world he lives in while still believing in God.

[Angela.]

I'm surprised your class read Catcher In The Rye. I thought that book, however amazing it was, was banned from a LOT of schools because of the so called 'suggestive' elements. Mainly, that one scene with the prostitute. (I don't think there's anything wrong with it, though. In fact, that's actually one of my favorite books.)

Anyways, you could be onto something with Catcher In The Rye. I know that BJ once said that his class was assigned to read CITR, but BJ blew it off. And after a while, he actually read it and ended up liking it, and he even said he could relate to Holden. Who Wrote Holden Caulfield was an obvious refrence to Catcher In The Rye, so there's always the possibility that Christian was inspired by a bit of Holden, as well.

I feel like there's a Catcher In The Rye element in these lyrics:

"Well I'm not stoned

I'm just fucked up,

I got so high I can't stand up

I'm not cursed 'cause I've been blessed

I'm not in love 'cause I'm a mess."

The reason I think that could be related to Catcher In The Rye is because it does represent parts of Holden's character. For example, Holden often got drunk and fucked up, and this lead him to his problems with love. Or rather, his lack of love.

(By the way, I like this thread a lot.)

[norcalgreendayfan]

Damn and I read Catcher in the Rye when I was in high school makes me wish i remember more of the book I might have to give it a re read sometime

[Boston]

^^ I live in Massachusetts. Books don't get banned in liberal states.

[AtTheLibrary19]

I'm surprised your class read Catcher In The Rye. I thought that book, however amazing it was, was banned from a LOT of schools because of the so called 'suggestive' elements. Mainly, that one scene with the prostitute. (I don't think there's anything wrong with it, though. In fact, that's actually one of my favorite books.)

Really? I am about to graduate from a Catholic high school and it's requirement for us to read CITR. It was banned maybe back in the 70's or 80's. I do agree on people's points about connecting the book to Billie's lyrics though.

[Boston]

The reason I think that could be related to Catcher In The Rye is because it does represent parts of Holden's character. For example, Holden often got drunk and fucked up, and this lead him to his problems with love. Or rather, his lack of love.

I'd argue that his drinking stems from his problems with love. But that's a different argument.

[Rezurgam]

I noticed that the fire grows as the album progresses. It starts as a candlelight to just mass hysteria. Then there's almost the irony of wanting to see the light when there's fire all around. Of course, that's the literal interpretation of light.

Off topic: I argue that Holden is sexually frustrated and he may possibly be bisexual or gay.

[Boston]

I noticed that the fire grows as the album progresses. It starts as a candlelight to just mass hysteria. Then there's almost the irony of wanting to see the light when there's fire all around. Of course, that's the literal interpretation of light.

Off topic: I argue that Holden is sexually frustrated and he may possibly be bisexual or gay.

That's a really interesting observation. "The light" also ties into the religious theme I mentioned.

:off: I doubt it. The book is about the loss of innocence. Holden lost his when his brother Allie died, and he was just a person who couldn't deal with it.

[Kate Austen]

This was quickly written - but here was my take on the albums plot:

As far as Plot goes, it's a rather depressing story. From what I can tell, the story is about two lovers - Christian and Gloria - both who rebel against their current government and society. Gloria is the one that wants to lead the way (she is often referenced as being the "light"), whereas Christian just wants to take action and fuck shit up (he is the radical one). At the same time, he finds peace and calm in the love between Gloria and him.

However, Christian has a drug problem (Christian's Inferno/Before the Lobotomy). Sadly we find out, Gloria has one too (?Viva La Gloria?) - which then leads into "Restless Heart Syndrome". To me this is the strongest part of the album - in the way of plot revelation. I'm not entirely sure who this song is about (I assumed it's about Christian, altho since Gloria is also addicted, it could be about both). But the revelation is depicted in the following lyrics:

"I'm a victim of my symptom

I am my own worst enemy

You're a victim of your symptom

You are your own worst enemy"

This then ties back into "Know Your Enemy" - which is in the beginning of the story. This song talks about knowing who your enemy is, so you know what you're fighting for/against. The irony of it all is that they are their OWN worst enemy. Horseshoes and Handgernades is like the climax of the album. In Restless Heart Syndrome the protagonist/s are at their lowest point. The third act opens with an explosion of "I'm not fucking around" - and sees a newly energized protag ready to fuck shit up. This leads to 21 Guns - which is actually a reflection on the Iraq war. It's supposed to be from the perspective of soldiers who feel lost after fighting a war they don't think they should have. At the same time, it also can be used to talk about Christian - since they are not sure if they are fighting the right fights: specifically this line:

"Did you try to live on your own

When you burned down the house and home?

Did you stand too close to the fire?

Like a liar looking for forgiveness from a stone"

Christian is always referenced as "fire", especially on "Last night on Earth" where he actually talks about "losing everything in the fire". But obviously these lyrics are more for the theme of the song (soldiers and war). Finally, American Eulogy and Static Age are pretty similar, in that both are just talking about the negative aspects of society/the media. This then leads to the ending of the album, where Christian and Gloria essentially declare they don't want to live in the Modern World. They don't like how things have become, and pretty much checking out.

"See the Light" ends the album, and basically serves a reflective piece. It talks about Christian crossing rivers, and climbing mountains. Basically looking for the "right way". And the ending..well, has no conclusion. It really gives no answers to all the problems, and it really is left up to the reader. That is the point of the album actually.

It was never quite clear if Christian and Gloria stayed together. I'm going to assume yes, because they are both mentioned in "American Eulogy".

The other songs not mentioned are also important to plot. Altho these are more about "society" - and not so much about the actual characters. So they serve to enhance the world that is described in this story.

So just take what I wrote, and apply it to what Whatsername? said (the whole idea of Christian struggling with believing in this world) - and trying to cope with that.

[norcalgreendayfan]

This was quickly written - but here was my take on the albums plot:

As far as Plot goes, it's a rather depressing story. From what I can tell, the story is about two lovers - Christian and Gloria - both who rebel against their current government and society. Gloria is the one that wants to lead the way (she is often referenced as being the "light"), whereas Christian just wants to take action and fuck shit up (he is the radical one). At the same time, he finds peace and calm in the love between Gloria and him.

However, Christian has a drug problem (Christian's Inferno/Before the Lobotomy). Sadly we find out, Gloria has one too (?Viva La Gloria?) - which then leads into "Restless Heart Syndrome". To me this is the strongest part of the album - in the way of plot revelation. I'm not entirely sure who this song is about (I assumed it's about Christian, altho since Gloria is also addicted, it could be about both). But the revelation is depicted in the following lyrics:

This then ties back into "Know Your Enemy" - which is in the beginning of the story. This song talks about knowing who your enemy is, so you know what you're fighting for/against. The irony of it all is that they are their OWN worst enemy. Horseshoes and Handgernades is like the climax of the album. In Restless Heart Syndrome the protagonist/s are at their lowest point. The third act opens with an explosion of "I'm not fucking around" - and sees a newly energized protag ready to fuck shit up. This leads to 21 Guns - which is actually a reflection on the Iraq war. It's supposed to be from the perspective of soldiers who feel lost after fighting a war they don't think they should have. At the same time, it also can be used to talk about Christian - since they are not sure if they are fighting the right fights: specifically this line:

Christian is always referenced as "fire", especially on "Last night on Earth" where he actually talks about "losing everything in the fire". But obviously these lyrics are more for the theme of the song (soldiers and war). Finally, American Eulogy and Static Age are pretty similar, in that both are just talking about the negative aspects of society/the media. This then leads to the ending of the album, where Christian and Gloria essentially declare they don't want to live in the Modern World. They don't like how things have become, and pretty much checking out.

"See the Light" ends the album, and basically serves a reflective piece. It talks about Christian crossing rivers, and climbing mountains. Basically looking for the "right way". And the ending..well, has no conclusion. It really gives no answers to all the problems, and it really is left up to the reader. That is the point of the album actually.

It was never quite clear if Christian and Gloria stayed together. I'm going to assume yes, because they are both mentioned in "American Eulogy".

The other songs not mentioned are also important to plot. Altho these are more about "society" - and not so much about the actual characters. So they serve to enhance the world that is described in this story.

Damn that is pretty deep once you look really in to it and analyze the whole thing

[Rezurgam]

That's a really interesting observation. "The light" also ties into the religious theme I mentioned.

:off: I doubt it. The book is about the loss of innocence. Holden lost his when his brother Allie died, and he was just a person who couldn't deal with it.

True but it's also about establishing one's identity and letting go to move on. I'd totally argue if I reread the book but it's off topic and there's specific details that give away his possible frustration with his sexual identity.

This was quickly written - but here was my take on the albums plot:

As far as Plot goes, it's a rather depressing story. From what I can tell, the story is about two lovers - Christian and Gloria - both who rebel against their current government and society. Gloria is the one that wants to lead the way (she is often referenced as being the "light"), whereas Christian just wants to take action and fuck shit up (he is the radical one). At the same time, he finds peace and calm in the love between Gloria and him.

However, Christian has a drug problem (Christian's Inferno/Before the Lobotomy). Sadly we find out, Gloria has one too (?Viva La Gloria?) - which then leads into "Restless Heart Syndrome". To me this is the strongest part of the album - in the way of plot revelation. I'm not entirely sure who this song is about (I assumed it's about Christian, altho since Gloria is also addicted, it could be about both). But the revelation is depicted in the following lyrics:

This then ties back into "Know Your Enemy" - which is in the beginning of the story. This song talks about knowing who your enemy is, so you know what you're fighting for/against. The irony of it all is that they are their OWN worst enemy. Horseshoes and Handgernades is like the climax of the album. In Restless Heart Syndrome the protagonist/s are at their lowest point. The third act opens with an explosion of "I'm not fucking around" - and sees a newly energized protag ready to fuck shit up. This leads to 21 Guns - which is actually a reflection on the Iraq war. It's supposed to be from the perspective of soldiers who feel lost after fighting a war they don't think they should have. At the same time, it also can be used to talk about Christian - since they are not sure if they are fighting the right fights: specifically this line:

Christian is always referenced as "fire", especially on "Last night on Earth" where he actually talks about "losing everything in the fire". But obviously these lyrics are more for the theme of the song (soldiers and war). Finally, American Eulogy and Static Age are pretty similar, in that both are just talking about the negative aspects of society/the media. This then leads to the ending of the album, where Christian and Gloria essentially declare they don't want to live in the Modern World. They don't like how things have become, and pretty much checking out.

"See the Light" ends the album, and basically serves a reflective piece. It talks about Christian crossing rivers, and climbing mountains. Basically looking for the "right way". And the ending..well, has no conclusion. It really gives no answers to all the problems, and it really is left up to the reader. That is the point of the album actually.

It was never quite clear if Christian and Gloria stayed together. I'm going to assume yes, because they are both mentioned in "American Eulogy".

The other songs not mentioned are also important to plot. Altho these are more about "society" - and not so much about the actual characters. So they serve to enhance the world that is described in this story.

So just take what I wrote, and apply it to what Whatsername? said (the whole idea of Christian struggling with believing in this world) - and trying to cope with that.

Quickly written? Haha

Yeah, that's almost exactly how I interpreted the story except you went into so much more detail.

[Boston]

Kate - I actually never really saw where Gloria fit in (importance wise) until your summary.

New thought - them being their own worst enemies means that the fate of their lives is in their own hands - thus pushing the listener to take the world's problems into their own hands and do something productive about them.

[Kate Austen]

Kate - I actually never really saw where Gloria fit in (importance wise) until your summary.

Yeah listen to "?Viva La Gloria?"

Little girl little girl

You dirty liar

You're just a junkie

Preaching to the choir

Runaway

To your lost tranquility

And find yourself with your face in the gutter

This song is def about her being a hypocrite to some extent. Well not really a hypocrite, but her and Christian are preaching change, and cleaning up deceit, yet they both have a drug problem. I feel like this song is from a "conscience" point of view. Like her conscience is getting to her. So it's not sung as someone singing to her, rather how she is feeling bad about her addiction. At first I thought maybe Christian got her hooked on drugs. But then I thought - no, because throughout the album Christian is always praising her as "The saint of all sinners". So it would tie in with Horseshoes and Handgernades (him being pissed off at her after finding out she is not the perfect girl he thought she was). (Read below).

Furthermore, I find it interesting that "Before The Lobotomy" follows this song right after. Perfectly fits into the drug problem theme - especially with the lines "I am my own worst enemy - You are your own worst enemy".

The ONLY part of the album that has me stumped (and I mentioned this in another thread) - is Horseshoes and Handgernades. The lyrics seem like they are from Christians point of view, and IMO he almost seems mad at Gloria:

"I'm not fucking around

I think I'm coming out

All the deceivers and cheaters

I've think we've got a bleeder right now

I'm not fucking around

G-L-O-R-I-A

Well, you missed me kissed me

Now you better kick me down

I'm gonna drink, fight and fuck

And pushing my luck"

Almost sounds like he is singling Gloria out, like he is mad at her. Of course, I could be wrong. But this really confuses me.

[Kate Austen]

Quickly written? Haha

Well, I actually wrote this a day ago. But I wrote it in like 10 min. The album is def more complex. The thing is, the album is broken up into two pieces. There are songs that are strictly for advancing the plot, and songs that are about "themes" and messages - these songs serve to advance the world surrounding Christian and Gloria.

[Juan]

I've never really thought as Gloria being light and Christian being fire, that's a nice analogy. sometimes I wonder, does Billie know how deep he got, like he knows all the undertones, or it's just his subconsciousness pouring out of him?

[Boston]

I've never really thought as Gloria being light and Christian being fire, that's a nice analogy. sometimes I wonder, does Billie know how deep he got, like he knows all the undertones, or it's just his subconsciousness pouring out of him?

Every choice that an exceptional artist makes is intentional. That's what makes their work famous - the fact that they created many layers and ways to convey their message.

[Kate Austen]

I've never really thought as Gloria being light and Christian being fire, that's a nice analogy. sometimes I wonder, does Billie know how deep he got, like he knows all the undertones, or it's just his subconsciousness pouring out of him?

I feel like Billie doesn't give himself enough credit. Whenever I see interviews regarding the plot of his albums, he always brushes them off. Doesn't really go that much in depth. Maybe he just wants fans to interpret the stories for themselves?

He sort of reminds me of Dylan - in that way. Dylan was always like that when people asked him how he wrote deep lyrics. Now, I'm not comparing the two as lyricst. Far from it, Dylan is very skilled. I'm just saying they both respond to critics/ questions asked in a similar manner.

[Boston]

Now, I'm not comparing the two as lyricst. Far from it, Dylan is very skilled. I'm just saying they both respond to critics/ questions asked in a similar manner.

Trust me, I'm not angry or snippy when asking this, its a general question:

Do you think Billie is not talented at writing lyrics?

[Juan]

Every choice that an exceptional artist makes is intentional. That's what makes their work famous - the fact that they created many layers and ways to convey their message.

I think that like Kate said, Billie is in fact very modest, but sometimes you just write for the sake of it and it comes out equally as deep as you did it with intention, I can't help to think that Billie wrote some of this stuff not thinking about it, because it seems to came out very naturally.

[norcalgreendayfan]

Trust me, I'm not angry or snippy when asking this, its a general question:

Do you think Billie is not talented at writing lyrics?

I know this was not directed at me at any way, but I am going to put my two cents in I do think he is talented at writing lyrics just by the way it seems he poured his heart and soul in to them at least thats my opinion

[Kate Austen]

Trust me, I'm not angry or snippy when asking this, its a general question:

Do you think Billie is not talented at writing lyrics?

I think he is good. But I'm also realistic. No way Billie is a true "poet" like Bob Dylan, or some of the great American Writers of the past 100 years. Altho I was really impressed with most of the lyrics from 21st Century Breakdown. I was going through all them yesterday, and I think he is getting much better.

I think like norcalgreenday fan said, it's more then just lyrics that make Billie so great. It's what he pours into the songs (his emotions). Look, with Bob Dylan you get some incredible lyrics and storytelling. But you never get great songs with melody/emotion. Bob Dylan could never do what Billie Joe and co do, and vice verse. I would just leave it at that.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

Trust me, I'm not angry or snippy when asking this, its a general question:

Do you think Billie is not talented at writing lyrics?

I was curious about that too after reading her post.

I do think Billie is modest about himself being a lyrical genius.

**edit you posted when I did, and I dunno, I think he has always been damn good at writing lyrics.

[Kate Austen]

I was curious about that too after reading her post.

I do think Billie is modest about himself being a lyrical genius.

**edit you posted when I did, and I dunno, I think he has always been damn good at writing lyrics.

I think how one enjoys an artists lyrics is all relative to the individual. I've always enjoyed Billies lyrics. At the same time, when someone asks me how I compare him on a technical level to every artist in history (which I think is more Objective then Subjective) - I really don't consider Billie Joe to be (one of the best) lyricists of all time.

But that isn't an insult in any way. As I said in the above post, he brings more to the table then just words. But if i were to take his lyrics from his early career, and compare them to something like Dylan (like Blowing in the Wind/ Times Are A Changing) - then you can see there is a big difference in writing ability. They are different kinds of genres, and Billie doesn't need to be a poet for the kind of music he makes.

So really, comparing the two is pointless. In fact, I never even meant to bring him up. I was just talking about how I think Billie and Dylan are similar in how they respond to peoples questions (on their lyrics).

[**nobodylikesyou**]

I think how one enjoys an artists lyrics is all relative to the individual. I've always enjoyed Billies lyrics. At the same time, when someone asks me how I compare him on a technical level to every artist in history (which I think is more Objective then Subjective) - I really don't consider Billie Joe to be (one of the best) lyricists of all time.

But that isn't an insult in any way. As I said in the above post, he brings more to the table then just words. But if i were to take his lyrics from his early career, and compare them to something like Dylan (like Blowing in the Wind/ Times Are A Changing) - then you can see there is a big difference in writing ability. They are different kinds of genres, and Billie doesn't need to be a poet for the kind of music he makes.

So really, comparing the two is pointless. In fact, I never even meant to bring him up. I was just talking about how I think Billie and Dylan are similar in how they respond to peoples questions (on their lyrics).

I concur with that.

[Kate Austen]

I concur with that.

To be fair, I would listen to Green Day over Dylan any day (and I really like Dylan). So, just goes to show that Technical abilities doesn't always mean it's better music/art form.

With that said, I am really happy this thread was made. I want to see peoples ideas/take on this story. Hopefully we can keep taking each others ideas, and form a solid theory/storyline for this.