Are Green Day Punk?

[M.J.]

I'm just gonna jump in for a moment and say how blown away I've been by the response to this piece, especially from people who have few posts on the board but felt moved to speak out, here or in the pms I've received.

I think you can tell that I wrote this from my heart because of the love and appreciation I have for this band .

The shallow-minded shit that's flung at them is such a contrast with how real they are - real lives, real struggle, real pain - and their music, forged from this reality, the unflinching truth.

If I've in any way validated their fans, if I've given anyone something to respond to detractors with, then that makes me really proud - almost as proud as I am to call myself a Green Day fan, because that's my badge of honor.

Us and our band, we're a tribe.

*Angeline

And we all gotta stick together.

Very moving editorial Angeline. lurve.

[♥Whatsername♥]

That article was amazing.. *applause*..

Couldn't agree with you more!!

[living_end87]

that article was fantastic

good work

[the skuzz bot]

Well written my friend. But i must disagree.

Punk isn't just a title. Based on your theory, if President Bush said "the only thing i have to be proud of is being a punk" he would be punk. But punk isnt a word to add to your name to get friends, or to get votes for MTV or to get fans. It's this feeling that you're helping people through change. The reason people are still having the Green Day Debate is because they play punk rock. But they have pop ideals. The punk music mixed with the pop ideals makes this genre of music known as Pop Punk. They don't have any punk ideals. They abandoned them to sign to Reprise. They say they didn't do it for money, but they have gone against that beliefe plenty of times when in the Driven episode it was said "They didnt have high school graduation and needed to make a living" (paraphrased).

What I argue is not that they aren't great. They are one of the best band of today. They are like a punk rock version of Queen, every one likes them even if they dont like the rest of the music. But making great punk rock doesnt make you a punk. I have to thank green day for the base that they got me back into punk rock. Since i was like 7 or 8 i would listen to Dead kennedys, Oxy moron, rancid, the misfits, the ramones, and the like and i went on punk rock hiatus for a few years and then green day reminded me off the good old times. But that doesnt mean that they are punks.

Ok enough of the broken record catalouge.

Also, if you get into punk soley through Green Day and wanna claim your the "MOST PUNX DOOD EVUR!" shove a sock in your mouth. Because people who use the term Punx arent punk. I just though id let you all know.

Im sorry if its a little preachy or a little repetative. Im not in a good writing mood.

Later everyone.

AND AS THE CASUALTIES WOULD SAY .... UP THE PUNX!

[gdjunkie]

as a punk, to whoever wrote that, i say "fuck you". that was not good, at all.... you cant stereotype a punk. every punk is different. yes, there are punk qualities, but self expression is on top of all of that. im not saying that green day arent punks, because i believe they are, but the author of that has a thing or two to learn from johnny and joey. raomne, for those wondering. . .

[PunkRockDude]

Wow, that was a really, really good article! Great work !

[sandz2710]

Wow...some amazing strong words there. Agree 110% Have to copy it and post it on my My Space :wink:

[kerplunkedpunkgal]

i do agree with the arcticle, i just wish all the people i meet wudn't tell me green day arent punk in such an offensive way, who cares?? sure, i listen to rancid and the dead kennedys most of the time but i dont care if green day are or arent punk. they make good music that i can relate to and thats why i like it. now lets all have a big hug and join hands. sorry, i'm just sick of having arguments about the whole debate_xx

edit by Adeline : please only use the default font when posting. Thanks

[Funky_Punky_Monkey]

that was fucking amazing i couldnt agree more if i tried!

edit by Adeline : please only use the default font when posting. Thanks

[justcause]

Punk isn't just a title. Based on your theory, if President Bush said "the only thing i have to be proud of is being a punk" he would be punk. But punk isnt a word to add to your name to get friends, or to get votes for MTV or to get fans. It's this feeling that you're helping people through change. The reason people are still having the Green Day Debate is because they play punk rock. But they have pop ideals. The punk music mixed with the pop ideals makes this genre of music known as Pop Punk. They don't have any punk ideals. They abandoned them to sign to Reprise. They say they didn't do it for money, but they have gone against that beliefe plenty of times when in the Driven episode it was said "They didnt have high school graduation and needed to make a living" (paraphrased).

Well, thanx for addressing some of my arguments, even if I think you missed my main point - that Green Day are punk by nature and nurture, and they have nothing to prove to anyone. If they did, they could point to their lives, and the fact that they paid their dues in full.

Let's look at punk - not punk communities and the how they apply it - which varies - but at what you said, how it feels. The manner of GD's early days, how they came from the bottom of the pile and fought through social exclusion, elitism - their focus on honest self-expression, and their identification with the 'last ones in the line' is what makes them punk in essence. It's like the difference between having a faith that sustains itself regardless, an inner flame - or one light, if you want - the difference between having faith, and needing organized religion to tell you what to do.

They are still subject to cultural elitism as it is, both from hardliners who put music into strict categories, and those in the broader world of art who don't take them seriously at all. It's a loss for both sides.

The original BritPunk revolution had huge variety, not only musically, but in the many shades of liberal and socialist opinion it encompassed - and that's the key word, encompassed - everyone on the inside, because we're all basically about the same thing - freedom of expression, which is at the center of punk.

Punk was never about dogma, it was never as small as some little self-protective 'clique' to quote BJ - it was about being free to think and be who you want. It extended not only across musical genres but into all the arts and the trickle-down was felt everywhere in society because it gave people the latitude to be who they were, under a broad concensus.

This could never have happened if it had been about rigidity - things that grow in confinement are stunted.

Should Green Day have stunted their art ? Even Larry Livermore saw that Look Out couldn't contain what they were - remember the story of how he saw Sweet Children playing for the first time, the party in the house they had to break into? I don't have his exact words, but it was to the effect that although they were playing to a couple of kids in a shack, they played like it was Shea Stadium - that was his vision, a band that was born for a big arena in every sense - so he always knew.

Billie Joe's gift is his ultimate authority, he's an artist, and that's his rationale - to look for the best situation for his art to flourish. How would it be if he didn't? How would it benefit us all if he constrained his vision so he could keep having 'cigarettes and coffee with the Underbelly' - he didn't, and we won; but in many ways, he lost, on a personal level.

I sometimes think that the more 'PC cliques' of punk are the ones who have a more of a commonality with fucking Dubya's conservative, proscriptive mentality than they do with the philosophy of individual freedom they allegedly guard like some kind of spiders, weaving a web of exclusion with something dead at its heart. It's all so fucking puritanical and lacking in humor, lacking in humanity - I hate it when joyless zealots get hold of something that was once a huge freedom, an explosion of creativity and open-mindedness, and start building a corral for what can't be tamed - the human spirit.

Green Day never expected the cruelty and aggression that they got from their de facto family when they decided to take a tangent away from what you could call the mainstream of punk; that family could have been flexible enough to disagree with their decision, but to concede their identity, given that they'd paid their dues. It's not about the letter of the law, it's the spirit.

I'll have to check out Driven again, but as no member of Green Day was interviewed in the course of that program, it's just the theories of friends or families on what the guys' motivations were.

I only ever rely on their own words. Anyway - they didn't graduate, and they had families and wanted to support them - well, that's evil incarnate, yeah! Have a punk thought for Billie Joe's mom, bereaved and running herself into the ground, trying to support a family of six; think of Mike and his sister in the trailer park, his shitty early existence - how can anyone sit in judgement of these guys if they were human enough to want to live somewhat better, after many years of this?

When they signed, they thought they'd have more cash - some cash, even! - but they or nobody else foresaw the way Dookie was gonna fucking explode, sales-wise. To a lot of people, what happened would be a dream come true - to them, it was a nightmare; check out their interviews in and around Dookie and Insomniac, or Billie Joe's lengthy interview by Larry Livermore. It's all in Insomniac itself anyway - there for anyone with ears to hear.

At this stage, they'd been told 'don't let the door kick you in the ass' by their punk community - no return. If attitudes had been less rigid, they could have found a way to have some kind of relationship, instead they were alone, playing the hand they were dealt.

I think they handled it as well and as morally as they could - they kept in touch with their roots, they didn't exactly move to Bel Air, they seem to have kept their lives as real as is possible. It's in the music, where the truth always is: American Idiot is the product of the rage and love of those long-ago kids, still burning fiercely in the hearts of the men they are today.

Fuck, I think I've almost written another editorial!

(btw, I'm not calling you personally a 'joyless zealot' or any of the terms I used above, I'm talking in a general way!)

[justcause]

Wow...some amazing strong words there. Agree 110% Have to copy it and post it on my My Space :wink:

As I said in my reply to your pm, great - just credit me and also GDA, and send me a link so I can check it out.

[Silent-Rebel]

.......that left me speechless. Wow. That was one of the best article about Green Day that I have read, so well done with that!

"Punk"....heh... A really good definition for it. It really is.

[suicidexmakeover]

jesus. that girl can fucking write. adn she can write the truth. dude well done.

[celeryeater]

Very good.

Love ya, Billie Mike and Tre!

[Guest Quietus]

All I can say is, well said. Well said.

[rocking crumpetts]

wow- that's an amazing article! even if someone doesn't agree with the point you make, it's hard to argue. very well-researched and well-presented. you rock. i was kind of scared to read it when i saw the title, but that was amazing.

[cheryl]

This was a very nice editorial.

There are a couple of points I've been wanting to make in the "punk" debate that's been raging and I guess this is as good an opportunity as any.

I'm the mom of 4 teens whom I've always encouraged to be independent and to appreciate all types of music. I love and respect the talent and musical genius of Green Day from the early days through American Idiot. From the beginning, they dared to go, musically, where no other band has ever gone.

No, I don't believe "American Idiot" is punk. However, I don't think that matters one bit. It's great music. How in the world can sensible people accuse Green Day of "selling out"? They've simply grown up. People in their 30s would be pretty silly to continue the "punk" lifestyle. The punk boys of Green Day, have grown and matured into men. Thank God! Their music had to grow and mature with them. They've accomplished the metamorphosis perfectly.

As a mother teens, a completely independent thinker, and free spirit, who is raising her children to have the same values, I do question a one small thing. The Adeline Street clothing line has really surprised me. Of course, it's very comendable of Billie Joe to support his wife in her fashion endeavors. However, I miss the object of creating a line of clothes for "punks". It seems really funny to me. How can someone who's spent years talking about being an individual suddenly be touting stylish clothing so kids can dress alike? Are punks really supposed to be fashion and lable conscienece? Isn't that rather "oxymoronish"? To be sure, it can't be that they need the money. How can someone who's proudly displayed their disregard for pop culture and all that is trendy, intentionally become a trend setter, and one who profits from the trend? Oh, the clothes are really cute, and I'm sure my two girls will end up with some of them. It doesn't make me lose any of my respect for Billie Joe's great talent, however, it does make me scratch my head in contemplation.

[MrsPinkPunkRabbit]

I've been into Green Day for two years now and ever since i got into them this debate has raged wether they are punk or not. But the truth is no-one knows what the fuck punk is! you ask anyone and they will say the sex pistols and the ramones were punk but in actual fact that word was used to describe their type of music. in fact the term 'punk' was first used to describe gay men in jails and i've read that some supposed punks don't actually like being called punks because they know how the term was first used.

What i'm trying to say is that who really cares if Green Day are punk? does it really make them such a bad band if they aren't? would you stop listening to them if suddenly Billie turned round one day and said, Hey, you know I'm not, and never have been, a punk- that was all a rouse to get all you to listen to my kick- arse music'?

I think you find the term your looking for to describe Billie, Mike and Tre are Anarchists- they don't give a shit about what they do or who they upset- their just trying to make a living.

If you care about Green Day that much just ignore the silly twats who say they aren't punk by asking them what it actually means.

P.S after all this ranting i did enjoy the article i'm just fed up with the stupid subject cropping up everywhere!

P.P.S its bin exactly a year today since Milton Keynes- happy anniversary!!!!!

[Guest 16PaperLanterns]

that was a great editorial! i agree completely =)

[Jennnnnn]

wow that was prolly one of the best articles about Green Day that i have ever read. i agree with that 150% that is all true and theres no doubt about it

[walkingalone_x3]

Wow. That was the most beautifully truthful thing I've ever read about them. I agree with everything that article had to say. It gave me chills just reading that and trust me thats hard to do. That article went straight to my heart and it will be with me for a long time. Well done.

[Drifter]

But the truth is no-one knows what the fuck punk is!

'Punk rock is an anti-establishment rock music movement which began around 1974-1975 (although transitional forms can be found several years earlier), exemplified by the Ramones, the Sex Pistols, The Damned, and The Clash. The term is also used to describe subsequent music scenes that share key characteristics with those first-generation "punks," and it is often applied loosely to mean any band with "attitude" or "youthful aggression." The term is sometimes also applied to the fashions, ideology, subculture, or irreverent "DIY" ("do it yourself") attitude associated with this musical movement.' Taken from Wikipedia. Id say thats a fairly good deascription of what punk is.

in fact the term 'punk' was first used to describe gay men in jails

Really? Well thats news to me.

Good article by the way. I can say I agree with almost all of it :whistling: .

[TSL]

Nice article. But I have to agree with the skuzz ball or whoever posted that debate.

I personally think people just need to shut the fuck up and just listen to the music. Who cares what they are?

[ihearttunny]

That was extemely well-written and thought out. I definitely must commend you on that, but I disagree.

Where Green Day has come from and their struggles does not hide the fact that their music is longer punk rock. They might still be punks themselves, but there music is not. Yes of course you can still hear the punk influences in their music like the Damned or even Dillenger Four, but they crossed the boundaries of the pop/punk genre in 2000, even though I still think Warning and American Idiot were good albums.

But really, punk or not, Green Day is still damn good band.

[mbk]

Angeline dear, you hit the nail on the head as always!

(But could you give all these amazed ppl at least an age range... I know you're not 100 but I also have a deep suspicion you're not 16...!)