pacejunkie punk Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 So thanks to the people with the foresight to record these things, we have loads of early shows on YouTube and I've been watching a lot from the 39 Smooth and Kerplunk tours US and abroad. I'm waiting for the documentary to be made about this time because I have loads of questions. The logistics alone boggles my mind -- How do a bunch of teenagers with no money get to go to Europe to tour? Who paid for the flights? How did they even know where to go and where to play when they got there? I've heard some things about the vans they toured/slept in, people's houses, and how Kiffmeyer was a big help in getting them gigs in the beginning, but the whole DIY nature of these tours fascinates me. How did they even know where to start at 18 doing this all on their own? And even at the earliest shows the audience knows the words to the songs, records that were only available in small quantities. Amazing! Anyway, can we use this thread to share stories, clips and thoughts from those early early days? Has anyone been to any of these early shows?
GreenDayTheory Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 10 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said: So thanks to the people with the foresight to record these things, we have loads of early shows on YouTube and I've been watching a lot from the 39 Smooth and Kerplunk tours US and abroad. I'm waiting for the documentary to be made about this time because I have loads of questions. The logistics alone boggles my mind -- How do a bunch of teenagers with no money get to go to Europe to tour? Who paid for the flights? How did they even know where to go and where to play when they got there? I've heard some things about the vans they toured/slept in, people's houses, and how Kiffmeyer was a big help in getting them gigs in the beginning, but the whole DIY nature of these tours fascinates me. How did they even know where to start at 18 doing this all on their own? And even at the earliest shows the audience knows the words to the songs, records that were only available in small quantities. Amazing! Anyway, can we use this thread to share stories, clips and thoughts from those early early days? Has anyone been to any of these early shows? Come on,Why go to an Green Day concert when you haven't heard their records?They must have heard their records and learned the lyrics.
Hermione Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 12 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said: How do a bunch of teenagers with no money get to go to Europe to tour? Who paid for the flights? How did they even know where to go and where to play when they got there? I've heard some things about the vans they toured/slept in, people's houses, and how Kiffmeyer was a big help in getting them gigs in the beginning, but the whole DIY nature of these tours fascinates me. How did they even know where to start at 18 doing this all on their own? To answer this I guess it wasn't really all on their own. They were part of the local music scene and friends with all kinds of people who knew about that stuff, and they were signed to a record label. I'm sure they did have to organize a lot of it themselves, calling different venues to try and get shows booked etc, but they were immersed in this scene of bands who were all booking shows and going on tours so they must've had a pretty good idea what they needed to do just from that.
GreenDayTheory Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, Hermione said: To answer this I guess it wasn't really all on their own. They were part of the local music scene and friends with all kinds of people who knew about that stuff, and they were signed to a record label. I'm sure they did have to organize a lot of it themselves, calling different venues to try and get shows booked etc, but they were immersed in this scene of bands who were all booking shows and going on tours so they must've had a pretty good idea what they needed to do just from that. They had Lookout Records to help them tour i think.
Ham Pascale Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 12 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said: How do a bunch of teenagers with no money get to go to Europe to tour? Who paid for the flights? How did they even know where to go and where to play when they got there? They saved up a lot of money (maybe not exactly "a lot", but enough to go to Europe) due to the band members' low-cost lifestyle and frequent touring (which was also low-cost and remained that way until Nimrod era). According to Ben Myers' book they paid for the flights with their own money. Local promoters helped them book shows (for example, Christy Colcord and Aidan Taylor helped them get gigs in the UK). They often played for food, or for free. 12 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said: How did they even know where to start at 18 doing this all on their own? The answer is that they probably had absolutely no idea, but John Kiffmeyer knew exactly what to do. John sort of helped to get Green Day on their feet - he booked most pre - Fall 1990 GD shows, including their first US tour in the summer of 1990.
pacejunkie punk Posted June 30, 2017 Author Posted June 30, 2017 How much did Lookout do for them? They were so small I assumed they just pressed their records but had no real budget for promotion or management since they were doing that themselves. Part of the problem was they had to sell the records themselves people who wanted them couldn't find them.
GreenDayTheory Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said: How much did Lookout do for them? They were so small I assumed they just pressed their records but had no real budget for promotion or management since they were doing that themselves. Part of the problem was they had to sell the records themselves people who wanted them couldn't find them. Well then why did Green Day even signed the contract??
pacejunkie punk Posted June 30, 2017 Author Posted June 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, GreenDayTheory said: Well then why did Green Day even signed the contract?? To make a recording I assume. They were kids.
GreenDayTheory Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said: To make a recording I assume. They were kids. Maybe....
kkpojpojpj Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, GreenDayTheory said: Well then why did Green Day even signed the contract?? I guess they didn't expect to sell so many records that it would be a problem. Also they were fans of other bands that were signed by Lookout! so I think that played a big role in them signing there too.
pacejunkie punk Posted June 30, 2017 Author Posted June 30, 2017 That was essentially the offer wasn't it? Bands they admired recorded for Lookout and Larry said to them, come in and make a record. I'd be surprised if they had anything to do with booking their tours. They may not even have had a contract, did they?
GreenDayTheory Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said: That was essentially the offer wasn't it? Bands they admired recorded for Lookout and Larry said to them, come in and make a record. I'd be surprised if they had anything to do with booking their tours. They may not even have had a contract, did they? They had a contract i remember.
Montclare Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 29 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said: That was essentially the offer wasn't it? Bands they admired recorded for Lookout and Larry said to them, come in and make a record. I'd be surprised if they had anything to do with booking their tours. They may not even have had a contract, did they? 26 minutes ago, GreenDayTheory said: They had a contract i remember. According to Mike in the Spotify video, there was no signed contract between them and Lookout.
GreenDayTheory Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Montclare said: According to Mike in the Spotify video, there was no signed contract between them and Lookout. Oh ok
Lilly89 Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 During the last few weeks I asked myself the same question. I came to the conclusion that Billie had a huge network of friends to live his dream. Otherwise it wouldn't have been possible. A bunch of people I knew told me how they slept in occupied houses in germany (Hamburg and Berlin) and other places in europe.
pouty bitch Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 Maybe Aaron Cometbus helped them. (For those of you who don't know who he is, he was a big part of the East Bay punk scene. He published the zine Cometbus, he was drummer for the band Crimpshrine between 1982 and 1989, and he is also drummer for Billie Joe's side project band Pinhead Gunpowder.) He was a roadie for Green Day during their early years. I presume that, when Crimpshrine started out, they were in a similar position to when GD were starting out, so maybe Aaron gave GD some advice and guidance while they were touring.
pacejunkie punk Posted June 30, 2017 Author Posted June 30, 2017 Thanks for all your comments. Just a small correction, but Green Day did play England in 1991,and their ability to do that so early on intrigues me the most. It takes time to raise that kind of money touring the states selling t-shirts and Tre had only just joined. That's a huge trip for a bunch of teens with a small but growing US following.
pacejunkie punk Posted July 1, 2017 Author Posted July 1, 2017 Sure. And thanks for your story. Of course you're right it was possible, I guess I'm just majorly impressed that they did it. Of course even though any band could theoretically do it, it was their drive and talent that made them a success. Not every teen would have the ambition to do all this, let alone kids that were essentially homeless and on their own. But as we know Billie was all in with no backup plan.
GreenDayTheory Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 33 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said: Sure. And thanks for your story. Of course you're right it was possible, I guess I'm just majorly impressed that they did it. Of course even though any band could theoretically do it, it was their drive and talent that made them a success. Not every teen would have the ambition to do all this, let alone kids that were essentially homeless and on their own. But as we know Billie was all in with no backup plan. Billie's one hell of a tough guy!
Ham Pascale Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 @pacejunkie punk I strongly recommend that you read Henry Rollins' book 'Get In The Van: On The Road With Black Flag' as it gives a very good insight into an underground band's life and might answer quite a few of your questions.
Hero_Of_The_Hour Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 On 30/06/2017 at 7:05 PM, G-L-O-R-I-A said: Maybe Aaron Cometbus helped them. (For those of you who don't know who he is, he was a big part of the East Bay punk scene. He published the zine Cometbus, he was drummer for the band Crimpshrine between 1982 and 1989, and he is also drummer for Billie Joe's side project band Pinhead Gunpowder.) He was a roadie for Green Day during their early years. I presume that, when Crimpshrine started out, they were in a similar position to when GD were starting out, so maybe Aaron gave GD some advice and guidance while they were touring. Yup. Aaron was with them when they toured Europe the first time. Aaron had been to Europe before. They also had Sean with them and Larry Livermore had funded (in whatever limited way possible) the actual tour. Reading early issues of Cometbus it's clear either he or John took care of bookings and tour schedules while the band simply played and got in the van each night. Cometbus even sold their merch for them at gigs. They had a network of support. I'm guessing a lot of people helped them we'll never hear of.
pacejunkie punk Posted July 2, 2017 Author Posted July 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said: Yup. Aaron was with them when they toured Europe the first time. Aaron had been to Europe before. They also had Sean with them and Larry Livermore had funded (in whatever limited way possible) the actual tour. Reading early issues of Cometbus it's clear either he or John took care of bookings and tour schedules while the band simply played and got in the van each night. Cometbus even sold their merch for them at gigs. They had a network of support. I'm guessing a lot of people helped them we'll never hear of. Wow thanks. So while still all very DIY they had a lot of support behind the scenes from people that don't get enough of a mention. Explains a lot.
Ham Pascale Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 On 01.07.2017 at 10:51 AM, pacejunkie punk said: Sure. And thanks for your story. Of course you're right it was possible, I guess I'm just majorly impressed that they did it. Of course even though any band could theoretically do it, it was their drive and talent that made them a success. Not every teen would have the ambition to do all this, let alone kids that were essentially homeless and on their own. But as we know Billie was all in with no backup plan. I doubt that Mike, Billie Joe and Tre thought of Green Day as something that had potential to become even remotely popular. I also must point out that drive and talent doesn't always equal success. They were lucky that Warner didn't try to screw them over. That their music and lyrics aligned well with what a lot of adolescents were going through. That "grunge" - and deservedly so, I cannot help to add - began losing its mainstream success at a rapid pace, and all these lackluster post-grunge bands didn't do the so-called genre much justice either. It was clearly the matter of them being incredibly lucky. There were tons of bands that were just as talented and/or driven as Green Day, but didn't really get famous because of something petty. Jawbreaker (even though I think they would have still broken up if not sooner then later because of beef between Chris and Blake) didn't get to experience mainstream success because of all the bullshit Geffen put them through. Sweet Baby (Jesus) would have also been a thing, but they were majorly screwed over by Ruby Records and to top that off, their manager actually didn't want them to succeed. She tried sabotaging their first (and only) tour by not answering phone calls, booking shows at clubs that were closed down, giving the band bad directions, etc. Samiam and Drive Like Jehu didn't have a particularly great time with major labels, even though they are not in any way inferior to Green Day. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- While I agree that Billie Joe, Mike and Tre were technically homeless, Billie Joe (and he did move back in with his mother in about 1992) and Tre could have always moved back in with their parents if something went terribly, terribly wrong. And Mike held a steady day job at a seafood restaurant from 1989 all the way to 1992. I think everyone in the band did have a backup plan of sorts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- While Billie Joe was the driving creative force behind the band, he was also the most useless when it came to actually being helpful while on the road. Mike, along with whoever was the roadie (...Aaron Cometbus, Kaz Hope, Lucky Dog...), took on the driving responsibilities. Tre (and John, before he left - although I use that term loosely - the band), despite his seeming carelessness and utter disregard of those around him, spent hours on end on the telephone booking shows, finding places to stay and figuring out the logistics. Billie Joe would just "sit in the back of the van and pee in the Gatorade bottle", and his one (and only, I presume) attempt at driving the van was disastrous, according to Jeff Ott. I think the picture below illustrates what I just said the best : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I want to point out that touring Europe was nothing out of ordinary for young and unknown bands. It was essentially just another way of travelling Europe for young people with no money, nothing more and nothing less. It was regarded as some stupid and careless thing you do as a teenager or a young adult. Touring Europe is indeed not cheap and it made bands' (including Green Day's) life on the road a daily fight for survival. Money was scarce, and therefore food, drinks and other essentials were just barely enough for the band members. Back in the US, Green Day could almost always expect to be paid at least $50 for a show. They could always expect that some good samaritan will offer them a place to stay. Ironically enough, Billie Joe and Tre - not Mike though - apparently felt somewhat entitled to strangers' hospitality. Some people report that they thrashed some people's houses, ran up huge bills on somebody's telephone and verbally abused their hosts. I think that touring Europe shook some of that entitlement off. On the road in Europe, show promoters simply could not give them even the minimal amount of money or a place to stay or even food, as they were extremely poor. Also, few people in Europe (especially in Northern and Central Europe) were particularly impressed with East Bay's brand of punk. European brand of punk was harsher musically, darker and more politically outspoken lyrically. Needless to say, Green Day's poppy and lighthearted songs didn't sit well with them.
pacejunkie punk Posted July 2, 2017 Author Posted July 2, 2017 Great stories! I get what you say about Green Day's brand of punk differing from UK punk, but as far as musical style in general GD are so British invasion influenced that I'm surprised they didn't resonate more with European audiences for that reason alone. Maybe it was just not what people expected. Oh and I'm not sure Billie's mom would consider moving back home at 20 a backup plan! 😄
Ham Pascale Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 7 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said: Great stories! I get what you say about Green Day's brand of punk differing from UK punk, but as far as musical style in general GD are so British invasion influenced that I'm surprised they didn't resonate more with European audiences for that reason alone. Maybe it was just not what people expected. Oh and I'm not sure Billie's mom would consider moving back home at 20 a backup plan! 😄 In fact, UK punk scene at the time of Green Day's first European tour was mostly pretty poppy and not much different from what Green Day and Lookout bands were doing - think Goober Patrol and Wat Tyler. And Green Day did in fact resonate well with UK punks. I was mainly talking about punk scenes in Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, etc. Punks there were generally faced with a harsher reality than East Bay and UK/Ireland - harsher climate, squalid living conditions, scarcity of food and money, and a constant struggle to retain their scene. I think this precisely is what made the sound of punk more 'extreme' in Central and Northern Europe. And Green Day's poppy and lighthearted songs were not really welcomed there. Sure, not a lot of people outright hated them, but nobody was impressed with what they were doing. People there had much more pressing issues to talk about in their songs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Believe me, she would. Especially so considering that she got tired of disciplining him. He was out on tour most of the time and he did bring some money into the household.
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