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Second favourite son
Just now, Billie Hoe said:

Of course everyone should do their part, but the last time when things escalated and I reported him, I got a warning saying "You can't report people for going off topic or saying dumb shit when you continue to instigate it." (When imo I wasn't really instigating anything there, simply reacting and the last thing I said in relation to Adam was vaguely saying I had put him on ignore... and continued to be on topic, if I remember correctly.) So not really sure what the right thing to do here is...

This is the point Andres is making.  Report it but don’t reply and perpetuate it.  Just because a report is helpful (which it was in that case), doesn’t mean causing more of an argument by posting a response is also right.

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Jane Lannister

So, basically the recommended procedure is to report whenever you disagree with someone withought attempting a discussion?

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Fuzz
Just now, Jane Lannister said:

So, basically the recommended procedure is to report whenever you disagree with someone withought attempting a discussion?

If it's off topic, yes. What value is there to the rest of the community in arguing with someone because you don't like how they talk about something? 

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Second favourite son
1 minute ago, Jane Lannister said:

So, basically the recommended procedure is to report whenever you disagree with someone withought attempting a discussion?

No.  Report whenever someone breaks the rules and keep disagreements respectful and on-topic.  Discussion and debate = good.  Mean off topic arguments = bad.

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Amanda

It's quite simple, really.

If someone is continuously annoying you, just report their posts and let the A Team deal with it.

If Andres is annoying you, report him to me and I'll include a personal note from you when I send him my regular care parcel of kitty poop sprinkled with glitter.

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Jane Lannister
5 minutes ago, Amanda said:

 parcel of kitty poop sprinkled with glitter.

That's monthly mail worth subscribing for.

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BeachBum

The reality is we can't be online 24/7, so to a degree we are looking for you to self-moderate your content.  If you decide to join in and reply to the long rant, you have become part of the problem that is derailing a topic and the mod team is going agree to give you a warning point as well.  I mean when you reply to Adam we all know he is going to reply back and we all naturally want to have the last word, so we create this ongoing cycles which leads to quickly taking a thread off topic.  We give a warning point to everyone involved.  So it is pretty simple if you don't want the warning point don't help drag the off-topic discussion on.

Reporting something then replying is more often than not counterproductive. If you are contributing to the off-topic discussion you are kinda reporting yourself as well.  It also tends to lead to more clean up required. Example instead of one post needing hidden we need to hide 2 pages, or instead of hiding one post we now have to edit a bunch of posts that quoted the content that was hidden.

At the end of the day are not anti debate/ discussion we actually like it, however, it needs to stay on topic to the thread.

PS.  Several of us get emails when content is reported so if we are free we are on right away.  Use the report tool, it helps us end things before it gets out of hand.

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Billie Hoe

You know, I usually accept the warnings I get because they're fair and I did fuck up or broke the rules in some way, so I don't argue. 

I can't check to make sure anymore, because the posts from the 30th have been deleted/hidden, but I actually remember having stopped arguing before the public warning to stop being off topic was posted by a mod. The only thing I posted after was a comment about the ignore function (which was vague enough without naming names, and I was genuinely surprised how well the posts were blocked out, since that wasn't the case the last time I blocked someone) and then even added something on-topic about Tré and Sara's new baby, happy to talk about something else. (And usually posts that have an off-topic comment but continue with something on-topic are tolerated... as on-topic as a "random news" thread can be..) Other people continued debating with him after the warning and then reported the same post of his that I reported, but unlike me, didn't receive a warning-point. So, that's kinda bitter.

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Jane Lannister

The thing with warnings is that once you've been classified as a repeat offender you get free samples once in a while. 

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Fuzz
43 minutes ago, Billie Hoe said:

You know, I usually accept the warnings I get because they're fair and I did fuck up or broke the rules in some way, so I don't argue. 

I can't check to make sure anymore, because the posts from the 30th have been deleted/hidden, but I actually remember having stopped arguing before the public warning to stop being off topic was posted by a mod. The only thing I posted after was a comment about the ignore function (which was vague enough without naming names, and I was genuinely surprised how well the posts were blocked out, since that wasn't the case the last time I blocked someone) and then even added something on-topic about Tré and Sara's new baby, happy to talk about something else. (And usually posts that have an off-topic comment but continue with something on-topic are tolerated... as on-topic as a "random news" thread can be..) Other people continued debating with him after the warning and then reported the same post of his that I reported, but unlike me, didn't receive a warning-point. So, that's kinda bitter.

So what usually happens is that someone will report something much later than they should have, and by then, maybe the conversation has moved on. Still, we have a bunch of pending reports to look at and the team is talking about them. If only one mod is online, they're hesitant to start issue warnings on their own, because they're not all assholes like me. So they bring it up in the team chat, an wait for someone else to come online so we can talk about it. After some people come online, we start looking at stuff and think "ok yeah, all of them were being very unhelpful when this stuff came in", at least, that's what I'm thinking when viewing reports. So at that point, it makes sense to us to treat everyone the same. Everyone was going off topic, regardless if we agreed with the point they were arguing for or not. 

We see when one person is being more unreasonable than others, and we talk about whether or not we need to decide, as a team, to be more strict with someone in how frequently we give them warnings. Whether the next one should be a suspension, regardless if the 1st warning point has worn off. We decide that stuff afterward. You guys don't see that, and think we're doing nothing, but everyone we warn has a topic in the mod forum for us to look back on, as well as their warn history, for us to decide if a simple 1 point warning isn't enough.

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fukingcounterstrike
1 hour ago, Fuzz said:

If it's off topic, yes. What value is there to the rest of the community in arguing with someone because you don't like how they talk about something? 

Oh oh oh or take the argument to PM because you know they love their fucking arguments. God knows i do. Don't know what I would do if I didn't have my dear roommate to argue with in person with all the time

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Jane Lannister

There's a simple solution of the problem with arguments and it's abolishing mods.

Most of the arguments stem from the fact that people constantly indirect each other so that they "don't break the rules". Also no mods = no warnings = no motivation to act out. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

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Second favourite son
On 10/19/2016 at 8:20 PM, BeachBum said:

HAPPY 12th BIRTHDAY GDC!!!!

Without further adieu I give you the results of the 2016 GDC Awards voting.  
Please find you banners below 

...

Best Potential Mod
Winner: Jane Lannister

 

@Jane Lannister I thought you were one of us 😢

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Hermione
3 hours ago, Jane Lannister said:

There's a simple solution of the problem with arguments and it's abolishing mods.

Most of the arguments stem from the fact that people constantly indirect each other so that they "don't break the rules". Also no mods = no warnings = no motivation to act out. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

This theory is flawed because not everyone likes getting warnings so much that they ask for them for Christmas :P 

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Jane Lannister
1 hour ago, Second favourite son said:

@Jane Lannister I thought you were one of us 😢

I would NEVER :cry:

1 hour ago, Hermione said:

This theory is flawed because not everyone likes getting warnings so much that they ask for them for Christmas :P 

Fair enough, some people dread them so much they drag out arguments for that sweet sweet acknowledgment :P

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Joe.
23 hours ago, Fuzz said:

It's not being ignored. We just don't make a habit of trying to make all our conversations public. 

I'm always happy to look at other places to see how they do things and trying to make positive changes to GDC. I am curious to how those of you who aren't moderators would try to define the rules here? Should we suspend people because they don't get along with a certain group of people? If so, how do you define that in a fair way that doesn't just lead others to accuse you of being unfair? 

 

Thats fine. We don't have a right to know what's going on, my point is that if theres an issue that's been present since at least April 2017 (when I last PM'd said user) and if the issues affecting several members, surely some more action should be taken? I accept none of us see behind the scenes, but what I and others do see is consistently sh*tty behaviour that doesn't appear to be addressed. Yeah replying in the thread is dragging off topic and I take my ban on the chin, but when behaviour continues for at least 18 months it kinda feels a bit futile just to hit report... 

I can strongly recommend joining the facebook group I mentioned. Around 13,000 members with around 80% being active (stats from memory so may be slightly off). Theres no heavy modding, no warning points, no bans. An incredibly positive space where on the SUPER rare chance someones out of order, the community lets them know about it. No report and wait. No rudeness. This stops things festering and getting to the point it got to here (rightly or wrongly).

In this instance theres no easy answer and I accept that. Hey, maybe all this backlash will have some effect anyway. I think the point myself and others aimed to put across is that whatever's being done clearly isn't the right answer. I personally feel this shouldn't be overlooked based on the responses, but thats just my two cents.

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Hermione
13 hours ago, Joe. said:

Thats fine. We don't have a right to know what's going on, my point is that if theres an issue that's been present since at least April 2017 (when I last PM'd said user) and if the issues affecting several members, surely some more action should be taken? I accept none of us see behind the scenes, but what I and others do see is consistently sh*tty behaviour that doesn't appear to be addressed. Yeah replying in the thread is dragging off topic and I take my ban on the chin, but when behaviour continues for at least 18 months it kinda feels a bit futile just to hit report... 

I can strongly recommend joining the facebook group I mentioned. Around 13,000 members with around 80% being active (stats from memory so may be slightly off). Theres no heavy modding, no warning points, no bans. An incredibly positive space where on the SUPER rare chance someones out of order, the community lets them know about it. No report and wait. No rudeness. This stops things festering and getting to the point it got to here (rightly or wrongly).

In this instance theres no easy answer and I accept that. Hey, maybe all this backlash will have some effect anyway. I think the point myself and others aimed to put across is that whatever's being done clearly isn't the right answer. I personally feel this shouldn't be overlooked based on the responses, but thats just my two cents.

It isn't futile to hit report. It alerts us to a problem so we can hopefully step in to stop it faster and give warnings if necessary (as mentioned this might not always happen super fast as we're not all here 24/7 and sometimes want to discuss it, it but we're not in the habit of ignoring it), and lets us know how people feel about a situation/whether people are bothered by something, so it can be very helpful.

As has been mentioned we have threads for every member we've given warnings to and warning logs to refer to so we can see a pretty good picture of how much trouble any individual member has been causing. If you see someone breaking rules or creating a problem reporting it does help us deal with it both in the short and long term, and is more useful than getting into a fight in a thread because someone annoys you and it ending up in a shitstorm. When the member you're talking about has broken rules he's been given warning points for it (as anyone would), it hasn't been ignored and won't be. 

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Joe.
3 minutes ago, Hermione said:

It isn't futile to hit report. It alerts us to a problem so we can hopefully step in to stop it faster and give warnings if necessary (as mentioned this might not always happen super fast as we're not all here 24/7 and sometimes want to discuss it, it but we're not in the habit of ignoring it), and lets us know how people feel about a situation/whether people are bothered by something, so it can be very helpful. As has been mentioned we have threads for every member we've given warnings to and warning logs to refer to so we can see a pretty good picture of how much trouble any individual member has been causing. If you see someone breaking rules or creating a problem in a thread reporting it does help us deal with it both in the short and long term, and is more useful than getting into a fight in a thread because someone annoys you and it ending up in a shitstorm. When the member you're talking about has broken rules he's been given warning points for it (as anyone would), it hasn't been ignored and won't be. 

OK. Despite reports clearly not changing behaviour, thats what I'll stick with.

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WhiteTim
1 minute ago, Joe. said:

OK. Despite reports clearly not changing behaviour, thats what I'll stick with.

 

wouldn't it also be fair to say that you're not changing behavior as well if you keep arguing with that same person? wouldn't that say it's not exactly the mods fault for that? 

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Joe.
1 minute ago, WhiteTim said:

wouldn't it also be fair to say that you're not changing behavior as well if you keep arguing with that same person? wouldn't that say it's not exactly the mods fault for that? 

I personally have spoke twice to him. Once I took it to PM, second time was this time. Yet I've only had issues with one user yet they've had issues with several?

And warnings have changed my behaviour, Im yet to derail a thread in the hour I've been back and will once again revert to just reading the forum in the next couple days

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WhiteTim
22 minutes ago, Joe. said:

I personally have spoke twice to him. Once I took it to PM, second time was this time. Yet I've only had issues with one user yet they've had issues with several?

And warnings have changed my behaviour, Im yet to derail a thread in the hour I've been back and will once again revert to just reading the forum in the next couple days

Don’t just read the forum post more from what I remember of your posts you’re a good poster don’t let anyone run you off just put whoever you don’t want to see or talk to on ignore 

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Joe.
2 minutes ago, WhiteTim said:

Don’t just read the forum post more from what I remember of your posts you’re a good poster don’t let anyone run you off just put whoever you don’t want to see or talk to on ignore 

Cheers that’s appreciated, I used to really enjoy coming on here and trying to be both a middle ground and occasionally Devils advocate :) 

For me it’s a combination of there’s nothing to discuss at the minute and there’s the same old rubbish that just puts me off posting.

I have used the ignore feature in the past ended up reversing it because: 1. Seeing one half of a conversation is irritating and 2. Occasionally something worth reading is posted. It’s a problem of my own invention.

Anyway I can’t be bothered to get another warning point for getting this thread off topic so I’ll just leave it there. The feedback givens clearly flown over heads so I’ve nothing more to add.

 

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AlissaGoesRAWR

Yeah, what I don’t understand is what the issues and behaviors are that apparently need addressing. Unfortunately finding someone annoying, or honestly even someone being sexist or condescending, isn’t in itself a reason for banning them from the site, which seems to be the end goal that people want. :confused:

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Hermione

We try to apply the rules fairly to everyone. When he's done things beyond just posting in a way some people are annoyed by (ie actually breaking rules by being off topic, not doing as asked or being rude etc) he's been given warning points, and we've spoken to him. There's been consequences for his actions and if they were to continue regularly the consequences would increase. If you think a rule is being broken or a thread is being disrupted report it so we can take a look. If it's just that you're annoyed by someone's posts ignore them or use the block feature. 

Going after someone every time they post because you don't like them, or everyone piling in and being off topic and rude themselves in an argument doesn't help and only ends in multiple people getting warned and the problem being perpetuated. It won't make us go "oh look some people want someone banned let's ban them". Reporting when necessary and ignoring works better.

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