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My theory of the Cigarettes and Valentines soundtrack


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#1 GreenDay_Demolicious

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:32 PM

After a few hours of research and increased interest in the "lost" album, I think I have compiled a decent track list of the album. Replies and your thoughts would be very appreciated. Next to most of the songs is where the track is from.

 

Spoiler

Edited by GreenDay_Demolicious, 25 February 2014 - 10:46 PM.

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#2 Certified Nimrod

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:37 PM

What makes you think that these songs were on C&V?


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#3 Darth Praxus

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:38 PM

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After a few hours of research and increased interest in the "lost" album, I think I have compiled a decent track list of the album. Replies and your thoughts would be very appreciated. Next to most of the songs is where the track is from.

 

Spoiler
 

 

Pretty damn sure there's no way "American Eulogy" was in any form written back in 2003.


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#4 GreenDay_Demolicious

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:40 PM

Thanks for the quick feedback guys, I really appreciated your critique.



#5 Todd

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:44 PM

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Why would they re-release Maria for the third time, and why would they release a Pinhead Gunpowder song? Out of all of them? Green Day has never covered PHGP, only Big Yellow Taxi originally by Joni Mitchell. And the rest of your list dude. I know you're new, but damn....


Olivia was unknown until 2010 when they played it live. If anything, it would've been a 21CB or Trilogy session song. 

 

And Murder City was written Jan 8th, 2009 after the riots about the BART Police shooting of Oscar Grant


And how many times do I have to make it clear.... Dream Catcher, not Dreamcatcher. It's like "It's Fuck Time" all over again :cry:


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#6 GreenDay_Demolicious

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:46 PM

What makes you think that these songs were on C&V?

Well the first three songs are already confirmed. I'm not very sure but Murder City and Too Much Too Soon sound kind of similar, and Too Much Too Soon was around during that time period. "I Fought The Law" could have been recorded for C&V. "Carpe Diem" and "Nuclear Family" kinda sound like they fit the fast, "punk" category that the band was intending. I'll post more about it later, I gotta get to bed soon anyway.


Why would they re-release Maria for the third time, and why would they release a Pinhead Gunpowder song? Out of all of them? Green Day has never covered PHGP, only Big Yellow Taxi originally by Joni Mitchell. And the rest of your list dude. I know you're new, but damn....


Olivia was unknown until 2010 when they played it live. If anything, it would've been a 21CB or Trilogy session song. 

 

And Murder City was written Jan 8th, 2009 after the riots about the BART Police shooting of Oscar Grant


And how many times do I have to make it clear.... Dream Catcher, not Dreamcatcher. It's like "It's Fuck Time" all over again :cry:

Thanks for your feedback , i'll correct "Dream Catcher"



#7 Darth Praxus

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:46 PM

I'm not very sure but Murder City and Too Much Too Soon   sound kind of similar  ,  and Too Much Too Soon was around during that time period. "I Fought The Law"  could have been  recorded for C&V. "Carpe Diem" and "Nuclear Family" kinda sound like they fi  t the fast, "punk" category that the band was intending. I'll post more about it later, I gotta get to bed soon anyway. 

That kind of connecting the dots won't exactly hold up in a court of law. :P

 


And how many times do I have to make it clear.... Dream Catcher, not Dreamcatcher. It's like "It's Fuck Time" all over again :cry:

I actually like "Fucktime" better as a title. :P Not that I'd ever actually use it.


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#8 Todd

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:00 PM

Are we being trolled? 

 

List de-bunked

 

Cigarettes and Valentines (Confirmed)
Dropout (Confirmed)
Walk Away (Confirmed)
I Fought the Law - released before American Idiot - possible
Too Much Too Soon (Confirmed)
Olivia - Played live once in 2010, probably 21CB or Trilogy Outtake

Carpe Diem/Nuclear Family - Written in 2010/2011, earliest of trilogy songs. Most likely not on C&V
Dream Catcher - Soundchecked in 2010 alongside Oh Girl, when Green Day were working on trilogy songs. Probably 21CB or Trilogy outtake
Things I Heard Today - posted on Greenday.com in 2001 as phone message... possible
Favorite Son/Governator - released as AI B-sides, so maybe
Murder City/Modern World (American Eulogy)- Murder City was written January 2009 after shooting of Oscar Grant, Modern World was first song written for 21CB
Shoplifter - online only single released before American Idiot.. possible
Stop When the Red Lights Flash/See You Tonight - SWTRLF written in 2010 with early trilogy songs, SYT was done in Billie's home studio
Maria - this was released on the 2001 Waiting single and then re-recorded for Int SH, why would they release it again???
Hybrid Moments - Green Day didn't start playing this one until 2011, so I don't think so. 
Roshambo It's possible, but Green Day had multiple projects going in 2003, along with a Christmas album, so this was probably recorded just for The Network.
Life During Wartime - This is a cover of another band that Green Day has never played live. Billie did it accoustic on KALX along with Beastly Bit, but He's in PHGP, so he can play their songs and represent them separately from green day, can't he? Just because he does something solo doesn't mean it's Green Day


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#9 Zack.

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:02 PM

Please use the search function to find other C&V threads and mods please pick your favorite to combine this with. Every time a new thread gets started people just argue about shit we already know.

 

Anyway, your list -

 

Cigarettes and Valentines (Confirmed) - Yes.
Dropout (Confirmed) - Yes, but we haven't heard it.
Walk Away (Likely Tre version/Confirmed) - Yes but we don't know for sure that it's the one on Tré.
Too Much Too Soon (B Side) - Yes! Even though you stated earlier that you just guessed at this, it was confirmed in a radio interview.
Thing I've Heard Today (Audio Message) - This one, Minnesota Girl, and What About Today have the most probability of any just because of when they were recorded, but there's no confirming it.
Favorite Son/Governator(B Sides) - Favorite Son was for that Rock Against Bush album, so no. Governator probs not
Murder City/Modern World (American Eulogy)- Both 21st Century Breakdown - Tman already illustrated that definitely not for Murder City. American Eulogy probs not.
Shoplifter (B Side) - This one goes along with the audio message ones. We don't know for sure, but it's possible.
Maria (International Superhits!) - That was on the waiting single first, so no.
Hybrid Moments (Cover-Misfits-2011) - What? Why even.
Roshambo (Money Money 2020-The Network) - There are theories that the whole of Money Money 2020 is just C&V, so maybe but probs not.
Life During Wartime(Pinhead Gunpowder)/Hearts Collide(B Side) - Goes along with the audio messages, but Billie Joe recorded this one specifically for some war-related event, so I don't see why it would be likely for C&V.

 

Ignored your others that were just wild guessing altogether. Those are all the ones with either certain confirmation or a specific reason why it's wrong.

 

[Edit:] Hey dickfarter you post-sniped me.


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#10 GreenDay_Demolicious

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:03 PM

Please use the search function to find other C&V threads and mods please pick your favorite to combine this with. Every time a new thread gets started people just argue about shit we already know.

 

Anyway, your list -

 

Cigarettes and Valentines (Confirmed) - Yes.
Dropout (Confirmed) - Yes, but we haven't heard it.
Walk Away (Likely Tre version/Confirmed) - Yes but we don't know for sure that it's the one on Tré.
Too Much Too Soon (B Side) - Yes! Even though you stated earlier that you just guessed at this, it was confirmed in a radio interview.
Thing I've Heard Today (Audio Message) - This one, Minnesota Girl, and What About Today have the most probability of any just because of when they were recorded, but there's no confirming it.
Favorite Son/Governator(B Sides) - Favorite Son was for that Rock Against Bush album, so no. Governator probs not
Murder City/Modern World (American Eulogy)- Both 21st Century Breakdown - Tman already illustrated that definitely not for Murder City. American Eulogy probs not.
Shoplifter (B Side) - This one goes along with the audio message ones. We don't know for sure, but it's possible.
Maria (International Superhits!) - That was on the waiting single first, so no.
Hybrid Moments (Cover-Misfits-2011) - What? Why even.
Roshambo (Money Money 2020-The Network) - There are theories that the whole of Money Money 2020 is just C&V, so maybe but probs not.
Life During Wartime(Pinhead Gunpowder)/Hearts Collide(B Side) - Goes along with the audio messages, but Billie Joe recorded this one specifically for some war-related event, so I don't see why it would be likely for C&V.

 

Ignored your others that were just wild guessing altogether. Those are all the ones with either certain confirmation or a specific reason why it's wrong.

Thanks man, the exact critique I needed. I try getting to researching this more soon, but as of now I am going to bed.



#11 Todd

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:05 PM

Please use the search function to find other C&V threads and mods please pick your favorite to combine this with. Every time a new thread gets started people just argue about shit we already know.

 

Anyway, your list -

 

Cigarettes and Valentines (Confirmed) - Yes.
Dropout (Confirmed) - Yes, but we haven't heard it.
Walk Away (Likely Tre version/Confirmed) - Yes but we don't know for sure that it's the one on Tré.
Too Much Too Soon (B Side) - Yes! Even though you stated earlier that you just guessed at this, it was confirmed in a radio interview.
Thing I've Heard Today (Audio Message) - This one, Minnesota Girl, and What About Today have the most probability of any just because of when they were recorded, but there's no confirming it.
Favorite Son/Governator(B Sides) - Favorite Son was for that Rock Against Bush album, so no. Governator probs not
Murder City/Modern World (American Eulogy)- Both 21st Century Breakdown - Tman already illustrated that definitely not for Murder City. American Eulogy probs not.
Shoplifter (B Side) - This one goes along with the audio message ones. We don't know for sure, but it's possible.
Maria (International Superhits!) - That was on the waiting single first, so no.
Hybrid Moments (Cover-Misfits-2011) - What? Why even.
Roshambo (Money Money 2020-The Network) - There are theories that the whole of Money Money 2020 is just C&V, so maybe but probs not.
Life During Wartime(Pinhead Gunpowder)/Hearts Collide(B Side) - Goes along with the audio messages, but Billie Joe recorded this one specifically for some war-related event, so I don't see why it would be likely for C&V.

 

Ignored your others that were just wild guessing altogether. Those are all the ones with either certain confirmation or a specific reason why it's wrong.

 

[Edit:] Hey dickfarter you post-sniped me.

Would you say Favorite Son is about George Bush? I've been wondering that


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#12 GreenDay_Demolicious

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:05 PM

Thanks man, the exact critique I needed. I try getting to researching this more soon, but as of now I am going to bed. There is definitely no way that very many if not any at all were from Money Money 2020.



#13 Zack.

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:06 PM

Thanks man, the exact critique I needed. I try getting to researching this more soon, but as of now I am going to bed.

The best list we actually have is as follows:

 

Confirmed - Cigarettes and Valentines, Too Much Too Soon

Confirmed but not heard - Drop Out, Walk Away, and I think there was another?

Strong Possibility - Things I Heard Today, Minnesota Girl, What About Today

Weaker Possibility - Shoplifter

 

Also I think Horseshoes and Handgrenades was actually written circa 2003. I can't remember if they said it was written "For American Idiot" or "Around 2003" but that could be a possibility along with Shoplifter.


Would you say Favorite Son is about George Bush? I've been wondering that

Yeah, definitely. First of all it was on that comp and second there was this whole thing about how he only got into politics and made it up there to make daddy proud.


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#14 Todd

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:08 PM

The best list we actually have is as follows:

 

Confirmed - Cigarettes and Valentines, Too Much Too Soon

Confirmed but not heard - Drop Out, Walk Away, and I think there was another?

Strong Possibility - Things I Heard Today, Minnesota Girl, What About Today

Weaker Possibility - Shoplifter


Yeah, definitely. First of all it was on that comp and second of all there was this whole thing about how he only got into politics and made it up there to make daddy proud.

What do you think of Boys In the Bathroom Stall? I miss having Tre songs on albums :(


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#15 Zack.

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:11 PM

What do you think of Boys In the Bathroom Stall? I miss having Tre songs on albums :(

I have no idea. Unless it was another Dominated Love Slave esque track, I don't think it would have had any place on a serious album.

 

I always wonder what songs we've missed because nobody bothered to download any messages but Billie's.



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#16 Todd

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:14 PM

I have no idea. Unless it was another Dominated Love Slave esque track, I don't think it would have had any place on a serious album.

 

I always wonder what songs we've missed because nobody bothered to download any messages but Billie's.

Yeah, There were Mike and Tre messages too. They announced news and stuff too, all kinds of details we're missing



#17 Darth Praxus

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:16 PM

Would you say Favorite Son is about George Bush? I've been wondering that

It definitely is, but I always thought the "sex machine" and "panty raid" lines fit Clinton better. :P



#18 Fuzz

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:30 PM

I Fought The Law was recorded specifically for a promotional Pepsi thing during the Superbowl in 2003 or 2004. 



#19 Asa.

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:34 PM

This is ri-donk-ulous

#20 Zack.

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:40 PM

Yeah, There were Mike and Tre messages too. They announced news and stuff too, all kinds of details we're missing

I don't even think we have all of Billie's. I'd have to check on Wayback Machine to see.



#21 Sarcasm

 
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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:45 PM

I just want a full recording that isn't live :P

#22 Hammie Stein

 
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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:44 AM

Other songs that could have been from the Sessions: Minnesota Girl, What About Today. 



#23 Zack.

 
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Posted 26 February 2014 - 02:14 AM

Other songs that could have been from the Sessions: Minnesota Girl, What About Today. 

How timely of you.



#24 Hermione

 
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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:30 AM

I always wonder what songs we've missed because nobody bothered to download any messages but Billie's.

I like to think if Mike or Tre played new Green Day songs someone would've downloaded/kept them. Even if they don't care about them enough to keep their voice messages.



#25 Fuzz

 
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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:37 AM

Yeah I don't remember any songs from those guys back then. That was right around the time I was just getting in to them, so I'm sure I wasn't thinking "oh I have to make sure to save these", but I don't remember any.



#26 Zack.

 
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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:41 AM

I like to think if Mike or Tre played new Green Day songs someone would've downloaded/kept them. Even if they don't care about them enough to keep their voice messages.

http://web.archive.o...com/byo-ar.php3

 

There's two counts of "noodling" and four "new songs" (as opposed to the three we know) as well as Tré getting a new drumset which could have had him playing.

 

That's from October 28th. I'm not sure how far into 2004 we were when these were all removed.



#27 WeAllFloatDownHere

 
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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:52 AM

Truth is there is no Cigarettes And Valentines album they made it up to fuck with hardcore fans...
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#28 Zack.

 
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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:59 AM

Truth is there is no Cigarettes And Valentines album they made it up to fuck with hardcore fans...

Generally for the sake of discussion we take all presented facts at face value. If you introduce the concept of lying the whole canon just goes to shit.



#29 Hermione

 
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Posted 26 February 2014 - 04:00 AM

http://web.archive.o...com/byo-ar.php3

 

There's two counts of "noodling" and four "new songs" (as opposed to the three we know) as well as Tré getting a new drumset which could have had him playing.

 

That's from October 28th. I'm not sure how far into 2004 we were when these were all removed.

Damn. Couldn't it just be them talking about new songs and stuff? If not then I don't know what the internet using Green Day fans of the early 2000's were thinking! But I still think if a new song had been there someone would've most likely recorded it, I mean people always get excited about a new song.



#30 Eldoon

 
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Posted 26 February 2014 - 04:37 AM

I'm among the C&V truthers who think that there isn't actually a "lost album" and that "Cigarettes & Valentines" is more than likely just a bunch of recording sessions that resulted in unsatisfying product.  The whole "lost album" story always smacked of a narrative they came up with to make the impetus of AI 's creation sound cooler.  Plus they never really got that "stolen tapes" story straight to begin with (the album master tapes were stolen?  Oh wait, but there were backups? But it "just wasn't the same"?  Uhm...hmm.)  I have no doubt that "confirmed" C&V songs like "Too Much Too Soon" and "Cigarettes & Valentines" itself are just songs that resulted from these sessions, and were deemed good enough to be relegated to b-side status.  Keeping that in mind, I always thought there was a strong possibility "Favorite Son" was from those aborted sessions as well.  If you remove the lyric from the context of the Rock Against Bush comp, it can kind of read as the type of early 2000s character piece that Billie was prone to write.  This is all just a hunch though, I could be proven wrong.

 

Long story short, "Cigarettes & Valentines" is probably a bunch of files gathering dust at GD headquarters, waiting for the right opportunity to be released when the back catalogue eventually gets raided. I'd say to expect Demolicious II: Cigarettes & Valentines at some point down the line. 


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