Blasphemy & Genocide: Unpopular Green Day Opinions, Part 2

[Beerjeezus]

11 minutes ago, St. Jonny said:

Was watching the Wreck 'n' Roll DVD last night. Too bad the entire Irving Plaza show is not on it, a serious shame in fact, they gotta release that shit! What is on it is great and Nuclear Family is so killer live, that's one that doesn't take much time and rocks quite hard! The 21st Century Breakdown songs on the first half of the DVD are a lot of fun, especially Little Girl. Crowd sucks and Billie hits some really weird notes but a descent DVD none the less.

What is this DVD? I never heard about it. The Irving Plaza show was great, I remember watching the footage on YouTube. Is there anything more than what was on YT? Also, from where is the 21CB footage? 

[St. Jonny]

The 21CB footage is 10 live tracks from the album and American Idiot performed in front of a small studio crowd back in 2009, I am assuming before the official tour started. Then it has 16 songs from the 2012 IP show, whole DVD is about 115 minutes. Found it at Best Buy a couple years ago. These are the contents in order:

2009: Private Show in U.S

21st Century Breakdown

Know Your Enemy

East Jesus Nowhere

Last Of The American Girls

Murder City

Little Girl

The Static Age

21 Guns

American Eulogy

See The Light

American Idiot

2012: NYC

Welcome To Paradise

Murder City

Know Your Enemy

Nuclear Family

Stay The Night

Stop When The Red Lights Flash

Let Yourself Go

Oh Love

Holiday

Scattered

Burnout

Hitchin' A Ride

Letterbomb

When I Come Around

She

American Idiot

Fun as hell to watch, but damn I want the whole Plaza performance!!

 

[bouncingoffthewallbja]

19 hours ago, TimmyChunks said:

I saw a few of the Trilogy shows and aside from Brutal Love I'd have to say Stray Heart was the best one that they played live. So let's not forget that one...

I love your list though- from the songs that I saw them play live, I'd say that I'd love to see the following (in order):

Brutal Love- one of their best

Stray Heart- great live and they have a lot of fun live while Mike plays that awesome bass line

Stay The Night- just a great, classic GD song

Carpe Diem- they played a half step down on their old guitars when I saw this (in the middle of a bunch of Dookie songs) and it sounded awesome,

SWTRLF- good energy live, although they have so many awesome live songs I wouldn't be too disappointed if they left this off

 

 

Damn, I totally forgot about Stray Heart! That'd be fun to hear live 

[TimmyChunks]

4 hours ago, bouncingoffthewallbja said:

Damn, I totally forgot about Stray Heart! That'd be fun to hear live 

It is (was?) awesome live! I saw it in Providence and Toronto- I'm sure it's on youtube...enjoy!

[WhiteTim]

4 minutes ago, TimmyChunks said:

It is (was?) awesome live! I saw it in Providence and Toronto- I'm sure it's on youtube...enjoy!

It was? It was god awful at sxsw Billie couldn't sing for nothing made me hate the song sadly 

[Eric]

It's now 2017 and the Trilogy still sounds as good as it did day 1. I feel bad for those who take music way too serious and didn't enjoy these group of albums.  

[St. Jonny]

I think it will always stand out like any other GD album for those who love and enjoy it. I can agree, not sure if people were just expecting much more or didn't like the experimenting they did with it. The sound on the albums will always be great to me, and there are tracks I love a lot and some that I just love and a few that I just like. There aren't any songs off the Trilogy I don't actually like at all, just a few lines here and there that could have been better.

[Eric]

5 minutes ago, St. Jonny said:

I think it will always stand out like any other GD album for those who love and enjoy it. I can agree, not sure if people were just expecting much more or didn't like the experimenting they did with it. The sound on the albums will always be great to me, and there are tracks I love a lot and some that I just love and a few that I just like. There aren't many songs off the Trilogy I don't actually like at all, just a few lines here and there that could have been better.

They had expectations that weren't met. They just got two serious albums and then get an album filled with fun tracks and I guess GDC just doesn't like fun. It seems likethe rock and roll fan base is just too hard to please!  

[DeJennsitized]

1 hour ago, Eric said:

They had expectations that weren't met. They just got two serious albums and then get an album filled with fun tracks and I guess GDC just doesn't like fun. It seems likethe rock and roll fan base is just too hard to please!  

Or maybe people just didn't like the albums  

[Eric]

16 minutes ago, Jenn. said:

Or maybe people just didn't like the albums  

Just ignore me at this point ok?  

[Beerjeezus]

I'd love it if the sound wasn't so sterile. I like the albums but the fact that they sound like robots puts me off a bit.

[Eric]

it obviously has flaws I never said it didn't. Every album has an issue nothings perfect. I am talking about the amount of hate it got and still gets by you guys. And if you hate that go ahead I am going to keep saying it til the end of time. You can simply ignore me, but you guys do take everything so serious with music I feel like it keeps you back from liking other stuff. 

 

*Edit*

Guess it's much harder to get my point across on the web than in everyday real life interactions with people. They seem to get it.  

Edited January 2, 2017 by Eric

[Beerjeezus]

5 minutes ago, Eric said:

it obviously has flaws I never said it didn't. Every album has an issue nothings perfect. I am talking about the amount of hate it got and still gets by you guys. And if you hate that go ahead I am going to keep saying it til the end of time. You can simply ignore me, but you guys do take everything so serious with music I feel like it keeps you back from liking other stuff. 

 

*Edit*

Guess it's much harder to get my point across on the web than in everyday real life interactions with people. They seem to get it.  

I get your point. Personally I like it a lot better since I decided to stop taking it seriously. I can say I reconciled after I heard Bang Bang and world became ok again

[Hermione]

5 hours ago, Eric said:

It's now 2017 and the Trilogy still sounds as good as it did day 1. I feel bad for those who take music way too serious and didn't enjoy these group of albums.  

4 hours ago, Jenn. said:

Or maybe people just didn't like the albums  

There's probably some of both. But implying that everyone who didn't like them didn't like them for that reason will understandably put people's backs up  

2 hours ago, Jake69 said:

Most people don't like the trilogy because of the music not because of the message behind it. Songs can be fun and light hearted and be great songs. I just think a lot of the trilogy songs are lacking musically. I don't see what I'm taking too seriously.

I dunno, I've seen a whole lot of complaining about the message/themes. People are allowed to dislike albums for whatever reason anyway so , but it does sometimes surprise me the amount of Green Day fans who dislike or aren't really into the less serious/more fun or silly or risque stuff they do. 

[Dakke]

The issues people have with the Trilogy are myriad and complex, ranging from the weak drums over ridiculous lyrics to generally disregarding anything of the era because of the stuff that happened. Some people clearly expected too much after the lyrical porn of 21CB, so they were bound to be disappointed. Yet most qualms with the three records contain (a kernel of) truth. The vocal filters were excessive and served no clear purpose when compared to their use on AI and 21CB. The overall sound, both vocally and instrumentally is too clean and Tré's drums don't get the justice they deserve. Then the lyrics of some songs were random as fuck (Nuclear Family, Dirty Rotten Bastards) or straight out cringeworthy (Troublemaker). This doesn't pertain so much to Dos!, which can be excused from this criticism due to it being the second, dirty Foxboro Hot Tubs album, as to Uno! and Tré! which both lack focus and suffer from some songs with sometimes uninspired and boring lyrics (Oh Love, 99 Revolutions) and just feel as though their track list is completely random. Tré! especially suffers from this inconsistency, though it's in my humble opinion lyrically and generally by far the most impressive of the three records. They are a decent product of pills and alcohol, but not from a band which stormed the stage with Dookie, crowned themselves king of contemporary rock with American Idiot and showed that 'simple' songs are at their best coupled with a more rough sound (Kerplunk, Demolicious). I think the Trilogy would have been better received if the sound was grittier, the writing tighter and less throwaway, the bass and drum more prominent and the track lists less randomly thrown together the way they were. Of course it was doomed by iHeart, but things went awry much sooner.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Dakke
Grammar

[Eric]

picky picky  

[Thatsername]

14 hours ago, Dakke said:

The vocal filters were excessive and served no clear purpose when compared to their use on AI and 21CB. The overall sound, both vocally and instrumentally is too clean and Tré's drums don't get the justice they deserve.

I think that's also the reason why some people (me included) like the live versions of some trilogy songs, but not the studio versions. For example Stop When the Red Lights Flash - it's fucking awesome live, but I always skip it on the record.

That's why it's really sad they don't play trilogy songs anymore, they sound so much better live. Judging from the Rock Reel interview on youtube we got recently, they're still not ready to make peace with the trilogy, so I'm not expecting any trilogy songs on the upcoming tour. But who knows? Wouldn't be the first time GD surprises us

[Beerjeezus]

2 hours ago, MMwhatsername said:

I think that's also the reason why some people (me included) like the live versions of some trilogy songs, but not the studio versions. For example Stop When the Red Lights Flash - it's fucking awesome live, but I always skip it on the record.

That's why it's really sad they don't play trilogy songs anymore, they sound so much better live. Judging from the Rock Reel interview on youtube we got recently, they're still not ready to make peace with the trilogy, so I'm not expecting any trilogy songs on the upcoming tour. But who knows? Wouldn't be the first time GD surprises us

I fully agree. I loved live versions of these songs before the albums came out and I still do. I do hope they will bring back some of those songs because not eveything was bad. 

16 hours ago, Dakke said:

The issues people have with the Trilogy are myriad and complex, ranging from the weak drums over ridiculous lyrics to generally disregarding anything of the era because of the stuff that happened. Some people clearly expected too much after the lyrical porn of 21CB, so they were bound to be disappointed. Yet most qualms with the three records contain (a kernel of) truth. The vocal filters were excessive and served no clear purpose when compared to their use on AI and 21CB. The overall sound, both vocally and instrumentally is too clean and Tré's drums don't get the justice they deserve. Then the lyrics of some songs were random as fuck (Nuclear Family, Dirty Rotten Bastards) or straight out cringeworthy (Troublemaker). This doesn't pertain so much to Dos!, which can be excused from this criticism due to it being the second, dirty Foxboro Hot Tubs album, as to Uno! and Tré! which both lack focus and suffer from some songs with sometimes uninspired and boring lyrics (Oh Love, 99 Revolutions) and just feel as though their track list is completely random. Tré! especially suffers from this inconsistency, though it's in my humble opinion lyrically and generally by far the most impressive of the three records. They are a decent product of pills and alcohol, but not from a band which stormed the stage with Dookie, crowned themselves king of contemporary rock with American Idiot and showed that 'simple' songs are at their best coupled with a more rough sound (Kerplunk, Demolicious). I think the Trilogy would have been better received if the sound was grittier, the writing tighter and less throwaway, the bass and drum more prominent and the track lists less randomly thrown together the way they were. Of course it was doomed by iHeart, but things went awry much sooner.

Great post, you summed it up perfectly.

However, I don't think things went awry before iHeart. The promotion was badly executed (seemed insincere, Angry Birds and The Voice weren't good ideas, fwooking commercials, you name it) but the band seemed to be doing a good job as far as playing music was concerned. So my expectations for the studio versions of those songs were still pretty high, even after hearing Oh Love  (naive me, I know)

[DookieLukie]

I find 21CB lyrics to be nonsensical at times. They seem overly complex and forced into songs. Lyrics need to fit the sound, pace, feel, and rhythm of a song. Good lyrics are good because the music and lyrics compliment each other.

[Dakke]

9 hours ago, Jane Lannister said:

I fully agree. I loved live versions of these songs before the albums came out and I still do. I do hope they will bring back some of those songs because not eveything was bad. 

Great post, you summed it up perfectly.

However, I don't think things went awry before iHeart. The promotion was badly executed (seemed insincere, Angry Birds and The Voice weren't good ideas, fwooking commercials, you name it) but the band seemed to be doing a good job as far as playing music was concerned. So my expectations for the studio versions of those songs were still pretty high, even after hearing Oh Love  (naive me, I know)

I should have clarified that part. Billie's intentions for the Trilogy around the time of the release of 21st Century Breakdown were good, but due to his ever more excessive alcohol consumption at the height of the tour and the American Idiot Broadway musical (mid-2010),  he never managed to work out a concrete plan or goal for the songs he had already written or was writing. I don't believe Billie ever intended it to be a trilogy before they started recording in spring 2011. Billie wrote on forced autopilot as he has admitted as much, leading to nonsensical and uninspiring lyrics. His exacerbating drugs and alcohol abuse, the stunning complacency of Cavallo and the lack of a more formal plan before recording gave way to randomness and tracks randomly being shifted from album to album though some never seemed to fit in.

Demolicious was as much an admission that the overall sound was too clean and that they could have made one Sandinista like record instead of three normal-length records. I know many Trilogy aficionados appreciate the 37 songs we got, but I don't think it would have been any loss if they had released the 20 strongest on one record with a rawer sound, released a seperate FBHT album whilst doing some small club shows for that record in between major tour legs for the main album and followed up with a Shenanigans 2.0 containing more tracks. After all, we never heard the 20 other tracks Billie has written besides the 38 (37 + State of Shock) that got released.

[Beerjeezus]

9 hours ago, Dakke said:

I should have clarified that part. Billie's intentions for the Trilogy around the time of the release of 21st Century Breakdown were good, but due to his ever more excessive alcohol consumption at the height of the tour and the American Idiot Broadway musical (mid-2010),  he never managed to work out a concrete plan or goal for the songs he had already written or was writing. I don't believe Billie ever intended it to be a trilogy before they started recording in spring 2011. Billie wrote on forced autopilot as he has admitted as much, leading to nonsensical and uninspiring lyrics. His exacerbating drugs and alcohol abuse, the stunning complacency of Cavallo and the lack of a more formal plan before recording gave way to randomness and tracks randomly being shifted from album to album though some never seemed to fit in.

Demolicious was as much an admission that the overall sound was too clean and that they could have made one Sandinista like record instead of three normal-length records. I know many Trilogy aficionados appreciate the 37 songs we got, but I don't think it would have been any loss if they had released the 20 strongest on one record with a rawer sound, released a seperate FBHT album whilst doing some small club shows for that record in between major tour legs for the main album and followed up with a Shenanigans 2.0 containing more tracks. After all, we never heard the 20 other tracks Billie has written besides the 38 (37 + State of Shock) that got released.

You are right. In fact, I do like your concept better. When they announced trilogy, it seemed overwhelming. A Green Day album (something like Demolicious) and a Foxboro album (Dos) would work better. 

[Leni.]

9 hours ago, Dakke said:

I should have clarified that part. Billie's intentions for the Trilogy around the time of the release of 21st Century Breakdown were good, but due to his ever more excessive alcohol consumption at the height of the tour and the American Idiot Broadway musical (mid-2010),  he never managed to work out a concrete plan or goal for the songs he had already written or was writing. I don't believe Billie ever intended it to be a trilogy before they started recording in spring 2011. Billie wrote on forced autopilot as he has admitted as much, leading to nonsensical and uninspiring lyrics. His exacerbating drugs and alcohol abuse, the stunning complacency of Cavallo and the lack of a more formal plan before recording gave way to randomness and tracks randomly being shifted from album to album though some never seemed to fit in.

Demolicious was as much an admission that the overall sound was too clean and that they could have made one Sandinista like record instead of three normal-length records. I know many Trilogy aficionados appreciate the 37 songs we got, but I don't think it would have been any loss if they had released the 20 strongest on one record with a rawer sound, released a seperate FBHT album whilst doing some small club shows for that record in between major tour legs for the main album and followed up with a Shenanigans 2.0 containing more tracks. After all, we never heard the 20 other tracks Billie has written besides the 38 (37 + State of Shock) that got released.

I agree. I don't think those three albums together were a bad idea, the problem with it was it was filled with anything just to have the three discs. To be honest, I don't even remebmer when I heard Dos in full for the last time. Altough I love Tre - talking about the album now  - I don't take the album as a part of something bigger. I like it a lot, and I'm not saying Dos is a bad one. It only feels to me that Tre sounds more natural - like the way it sounds doesn't harm these songs as much as it seems to me to not fit with several song on Uno for example. Altough I don't like the studio versions of songs like Stay The Night or Carpe Diem I think they're pretty good as songs - on the studio version it's sounds like something is missing sometimes, I don't know why, but the live versions sound much better to me.

To the issue with 37 songs better than less - I agree with you completely. I like the idea of hearing as many songs as possible, but make three studio albums even if some of those songs don't seem to be finished... I like the Trilogy, but you know, sometimes it's questionable for the reasons above  As hard as I try I don't understand why State Of Shock wasn't good enough to make the album instead of something else  The conclusion for me is "Ok, weird times"  Honestly, I don't think GD should feel somehow embarrassed, it's not that bad thing that would deserve to be forgotten for ever. I made several bad steps myself during creating something - that's completely alright only if you learn that you made that bad step. And I think GD realised that, which is a good sign. But it's funny like with every new record they're always trying to top the previous one - they're so hard on themselves that I almost feel ashamed for being lazy sometimes  

[Marki.]

58 minutes ago, Ellen Caulfield said:

they're so hard on themselves that I almost feel ashamed for being lazy sometimes  

That's a great comment, I definitely felt like that before  They are hard on themselves, I hope they manage to make peace with the Trilogy soon.

[Christian's Inferno!]

What's funny is around the 21CB era, GD released 2 hours of material as well which was of higher quality. In 2008 they released Stop Drop & Roll which was 32 minutes, then they released 21CB in 2009 which was 69 minutes long. And they released the B-sides and Bonus tracks which in total was about 24 minutes of material. In total that's 125 minutes (2 hours 5 minutes).

[Leni.]

4 hours ago, Marki. said:

That's a great comment, I definitely felt like that before  They are hard on themselves, I hope they manage to make peace with the Trilogy soon.

Haha, yeah it's so true  I think they're on the right way to do so, at least I hope, too.