Blasphemy & Genocide: Unpopular Green Day Opinions, Part 2

[Wretched & Divine]

8 minutes ago, Kaddi. said:

I love them for exactly that big sound. For me, it is as if Green Day showed what they are actually capable of on these two albums and it's incredible. I also love all their older albums, but it is as if they've taken a big step forward with AI and proceeded into that direction with 21st CB. To this day, AI is still the only album that I like every single song on. I was scared 21st CB might not be as good, but it was. Well, and then came the trilogy which was obviously a huge step backwards. Now everyone is acting as if Revolution Radio is as good as AI or 21st CB, but for me it's not. It's just a better version of the trilogy. The songs are a bit better (some of them), but the sound is still the same and the quality of the album is nowhere near what GD are capable of (in my opinion). There are a few very good songs on it (Still Breathing, Revolution Radio, Bang Bang), but the rest is... only okay.

I agree with almost everything you've said, but I think the difference lies in how we're approaching music Green Day make post-explosive creative period of the 00s. If I compared everything they've made to AI/21CB, I think I would be doomed to be disappointed. As the quote goes, comparison is the thief of joy. It's not always easy to escape the mentality of comparing and allowing expectations to be set high, but it definitely results in a lot more enjoyment than you might experience otherwise.

[MikeDirntConfused]

1 hour ago, Kaddi. said:

I'll probably be ripped apart for this, but I think Revolution Radio sounds a lot like the trilogy at times. Some songs on there are a lot better, but some are not at all and might as well have been on the trilogy (Youngblood, Too Dumb To Die, Say Goodbye). Revolution Radio is nowhere near AI or 21st CB for me, unfortunately.

100% agree. Even though RevRad has 12 songs on it, they're not all quality songs. One track may be great, the next one seems filler, and repeat.

[Kaddi.]

9 minutes ago, Wretched & Divine said:

I agree with almost everything you've said, but I think the difference lies in how we're approaching music Green Day make post-explosive creative period of the 00s. If I compared everything they've made to AI/21CB, I think I would be doomed to be disappointed. As the quote goes, comparison is the thief of joy. It's not always easy to escape the mentality of comparing and allowing expectations to be set high, but it definitely results in a lot more enjoyment than you might experience otherwise.

Yeah, I always try not to compare everything they do to those two albums, but it's very difficult sometimes. I don't compare their older albums to AI/21st CB, because they were there before and it makes sense to me that they're different. I think I subconsciouly don't really get why a band that is able to make such great music has now released four albums that are nowhere near the quality they could be.

[MikeDirntConfused]

23 minutes ago, Kaddi. said:

I love them for exactly that big sound. For me, it is as if Green Day showed what they are actually capable of on these two albums and it's incredible. I also love all their older albums, but it is as if they've taken a big step forward with AI and proceeded into that direction with 21st CB. To this day, AI is still the only album that I like every single song on. I was scared 21st CB might not be as good, but it was. Well, and then came the trilogy which was obviously a huge step backwards. Now everyone is acting as if Revolution Radio is as good as AI or 21st CB, but for me it's not. It's just a better version of the trilogy. The songs are a bit better (some of them), but the sound is still the same and the quality of the album is nowhere near what GD are capable of (in my opinion). There are a few very good songs on it (Still Breathing, Revolution Radio, Bang Bang), but the rest is... only okay.

This is what I stated on a different thread and people tore me apart. They said simple is sometimes better, this is GD, etc. I also got into GD when they were doing the "big" sound, and since AI GD has been a consistent letdown. 21st wasn't a great album, but the band tried and I give them a lot of credit for that. Trilogy to present has been sort of phoning it in. If a band makes an epic statement (AI) then they have to continue somewhat along the same vein - a 180 to simple and perhaps filler songs is a slap in the face to the fans that like the "big" sound.

I'm not saying that GD has please us. They're the ones making the music, so they can do as they please. I also know that some fans like their new music. I'm just saying that AI brought a huge number of new fans on the GD boat, and the band has been allowing most of them to jump off. In 2005, the band was unstoppable. In 2010, the band was not as popular but they still had a grip on a lot of their AI fans because they played quality, "big" music. Post 21st, it's only the hardcore, "skeleton" GD fans and the asual music fans that see an ad for a GD concert and go.

[Kaddi.]

1 minute ago, MikeDirntConfused said:

This is what I stated on a different thread and people tore me apart. They said simple is sometimes better, this is GD, etc. I also got into GD when they were doing the "big" sound, and since AI GD has been a consistent letdown. 21st wasn't a great album, but the band tried and I give them a lot of credit for that. Trilogy to present has been sort of phoning it in. If a band makes an epic statement (AI) then they have to continue somewhat along the same vein - a 180 to simple and perhaps filler songs is a slap in the face to the fans that like the "big" sound.

I'm not saying that GD has please us. They're the ones making the music, so they can do as they please. I also know that some fans like their new music. I'm just saying that AI brought a huge number of new fans on the GD boat, and the band has been allowing most of them to jump off. In 2005, the band was unstoppable. In 2010, the band was not as popular but they still had a grip on a lot of their AI fans because they played quality, "big" music. Post 21st, it's only the hardcore, "skeleton" GD fans and the asual music fans that see an ad for a GD concert and go.

Exactly, yes. I don't mind if they try something new or go into a new direction, because after all, that's also what they did with AI back then. But it has to be better or at least on the same level as what they've done before. Unlike you, I think 21st CB is a great album. It goes into the same direction as AI and there are some really, really good songs on it. Ever since then, it felt like they were just going back to the most simple stuff, even more simple than Dookie. Actually, I even like Kerplunk and 39/Smooth better than the Trilogy and Revolution Radio, because it seems like better music to me. Everyone is always talking about how Green Day keeps evolving as a band and I think until 21st CB, this was very true. But after that, it felt like they were only moving backwards.

[MikeDirntConfused]

Just now, Kaddi. said:

Exactly, yes. I don't mind if they try something new or go into a new direction, because after all, that's also what they did with AI back then. But it has to be better or at least on the same level as what they've done before. Unlike you, I think 21st CB is a great album. It goes into the same direction as AI and there are some really, really good songs on it. Ever since then, it felt like they were just going back to the most simple stuff, even more simple than Dookie. Actually, I even like Kerplunk and 39/Smooth better than the Trilogy and Revolution Radio, because it seems like better music to me. Everyone is always talking about how Green Day keeps evolving as a band and I think until 21st CB, this was very true. But after that, it felt like they were only moving backwards.

They totally collapsed after 21st. The simple songs lack the substance and quality of 90s GD, despite being similar in structure and length. A lot of people are surprised that RevRad opened at #1. The album, however, is quickly dropping and if the next album has the content as RevRad, it won't open at #1. People will claim the band is older, rock isn't popular, etc. - they'll fail to blame the album's content at all costs.

[Wretched & Divine]

10 minutes ago, Kaddi. said:

Yeah, I always try not to compare everything they do to those two albums, but it's very difficult sometimes. I don't compare their older albums to AI/21st CB, because they were there before and it makes sense to me that they're different. I think I subconsciouly don't really get why a band that is able to make such great music has now released four albums that are nowhere near the quality they could be.

I guess I feel it's unfair to expect them to be brimming with the same creativity that inspired AI and 21CB, in a similar way that I think it would be unfair to expect JK Rowling to pull out something on par with/even better than Harry Potter. In the case of Green Day, they drew a lot of inspiration from the consequences of political turmoil in their country in order to write those two albums. The last 8 years arguably wouldn't have inspired the anger or whatever the catalyst for AI/21CB was, so I wouldn't expect them to come out with something similar. But hey, who knows what they might pull out of their hat in a few years if Trump is elected. Silver lining? 

[Kaddi.]

15 minutes ago, MikeDirntConfused said:

They totally collapsed after 21st. The simple songs lack the substance and quality of 90s GD, despite being similar in structure and length. A lot of people are surprised that RevRad opened at #1. The album, however, is quickly dropping and if the next album has the content as RevRad, it won't open at #1. People will claim the band is older, rock isn't popular, etc. - they'll fail to blame the album's content at all costs.

Oh I was very surprised about that too. But it should be blamed on the album's content if it drops quickly now, because that's most likely the reason. There are other bands out there that are huge right now although rock is apparently not that popular right now or whatnot, it has nothing to do with the genre, it's the quality of the music.

13 minutes ago, Wretched & Divine said:

I guess I feel it's unfair to expect them to be brimming with the same creativity that inspired AI and 21CB, in a similar way that I think it would be unfair to expect JK Rowling to pull out something on par with/even better than Harry Potter. In the case of Green Day, they drew a lot of inspiration from the consequences of political turmoil in their country in order to write those two albums. The last 8 years arguably wouldn't have inspired the anger or whatever the catalyst for AI/21CB was, so I wouldn't expect them to come out with something similar. But hey, who knows what they might pull out of their hat in a few years if Trump is elected. Silver lining? 

Of course, you're absolutely right. But shouldn't they be able to make an album of the same quality as Warning or Nimrod anyway? I mean, they've made so much great music for so many years and since ~2012 it has been nothing but mediocre. I still love them more than any other band, but I sometimes wish they would release an album again that blows me away completely. Nevertheless, I'd rather have more mediocre GD albums than Trump being president.

[Wretched & Divine]

7 minutes ago, Kaddi. said:

Of course, you're absolutely right. But shouldn't they be able to make an album of the same quality as Warning or Nimrod anyway? I mean, they've made so much great music for so many years and since ~2012 it has been nothing but mediocre. I still love them more than any other band, but I sometimes wish they would release an album again that blows me away completely. Nevertheless, I'd rather have more mediocre GD albums than Trump being president.

I don't think RevRad is of the same quality as Nimrod and Warning either, but I also don't think it's lacking unless we're talking about the questionable production. And I am very biased since Nimrod through 21CB are my favourite Green Day albums, but not necessarily in the order of release  I think the Trilogy lacked the essence of Green Day, but they've recaptured themselves with RevRad. It feels like them again, where the Trilogy largely just... didn't.

[Kaddi.]

11 minutes ago, Wretched & Divine said:

I don't think RevRad is of the same quality as Nimrod and Warning either, but I also don't think it's lacking unless we're talking about the questionable production. And I am very biased since Nimrod through 21CB are my favourite Green Day albums, but not necessarily in the order of release  I think the Trilogy lacked the essence of Green Day, but they've recaptured themselves with RevRad. It feels like them again, where the Trilogy largely just... didn't.

That's true. Although I don't like Revolution Radio that much, at least it feels like GD again and I'm very relieved because of that.

[MikeDirntConfused]

I think everyone needs to work hard to succeed. Take Taylor Swift, Drake, Kanye, for examples. These artists always make their next album as if it's going to be their last, and consequently, the albums are huge and stay in the minds of people for a long, long time.  

GD doesn't want to work hard anymore, it's that simple. Yet fans for some reason support that because they're GD. They'll rationalize all that's wrong with the band, and provide excuses for their failures (can't always make something epic, rock is dying, GD is old, the songs are actually good, you have to look at the deeper meanings, etc.) 

I'm glad the album is falling off the charts from #1 rapidly, and I thought I'd never say that about my favorite band. It's the backlash towards the band that'll make them scared and try hard. The band may have tried a bit more after the trilogy debacle, but consistent low sales will prompt the band and the label to reconsider GD.

Edited October 31, 2016 by MikeDirntConfused

[HungryHungryModels]

I see that it's slightly unpopular for me to like Somewhere Now much more than Forever Now (that song is so blah). Also, Outlaws is pretty much my top track. Interesting. I wonder if my opinions will change in time. 

[henrybr]

5 hours ago, MikeDirntConfused said:

 If a band makes an epic statement (AI) then they have to continue somewhat along the same vein - a 180 to simple and perhaps filler songs is a slap in the face to the fans that like the "big" sound.

I couldn't disagree more. I prefer every single trilogy album and RevRad over 21st, and I think it would be a huge mistake if GD was still making BIG OPERA ROCK albuns. I mean, 21CB sound so forced at times, like the band was trying too hard and taking itself too seriously. I do admire the ambition, but I also think that what was a natural choice in AI, in 21CB was more like an obligation. Something like "we become so big, now we can't do just an normal album anymore".

I really think that for green day, making the trilogy with a back to basics/experimental vein, must have been such a relief. No wonder they write 37 songs, and made 3 albuns. I think that was a sign of everything that must have been so suffocate in them, when they were writting only big opera rock/concept albuns.

I guess with revrad they got more relaxed, and feel more free to just write an album, with no big concepts or so many songs. 

Another thing is the quality issue. I really like the trilogy and I also enjoy revrad even if I prefer the trilogy over it. And I agree with you guys that those albuns are not the greatest green day. But so what? They're good music for me, they still have quality, they still sound like the band that I love. I don't know, I think sometimes people expect too much of the band. Or expect something that they want (albuns like AI or 21CB), when the band wants to do different stuff. Green Day has been around for more than 25 years, the guys are in their mid 40s now. Who can make masterpieces forever? Maybe their new work are not so great as what they made in the 90s or early 2000s, but it still enjoyable for me. It stills good. And the most important: I don't think they're trying less. I don't think there's effort lacking. I think that they put everything they had, they made the best they could, when they were writing the trilogy and revrad. Whether if that was enough or not for the fans, its up to each one's opinion.

Edited October 31, 2016 by henrybr

[Wretched & Divine]

18 minutes ago, henrybr said:

I couldn't disagree more. I prefer every single trilogy album and RevRad over 21st, and I think it would be a huge mistake if GD was still making BIG OPERA ROCK albuns. I mean, 21CB sound so forced at times, like the band was trying too hard and taking itself too seriously. I do admire the ambition, but I also think that what was a natural choice in AI, in 21CB was more like an obligation. Something like "we become so big, now we can't do just an normal album anymore".

I really think that for green day, making the trilogy with a back to basics/experimental vein, must have been such a relief. No wonder they write 37 songs, and made 3 albuns. I think that was a sign of everything that must have been so suffocate in them, when they were writting only big opera rock/concept albuns.

I guess with revrad they got more relaxed, and feel more free to just write an album, with no big concepts or so many songs. 

I disagree on the minor point of preferring Trilogy/RevRad over 21CB and the latter feeling forced, but everything else here is just yes, this. Thank you so much for articulating how I feel.

[Hermione]

5 hours ago, Kaddi. said:

I'll probably be ripped apart for this, but I think Revolution Radio sounds a lot like the trilogy at times. Some songs on there are a lot better, but some are not at all and might as well have been on the trilogy (Youngblood, Too Dumb To Die, Say Goodbye). Revolution Radio is nowhere near AI or 21st CB for me, unfortunately.

I agree! When we'd only heard Bang Bang and Revolution Radio I thought it really sounded like the trilogy, totally different in theme of course but very similar in musical style. When I heard the rest I realised most of the songs aren't so similar to it so it sounds more different to it overall than I thought it was going to. But there's quite a few songs that have some trilogy sound to them. I think it has AI/21st CB influences (the political themes, and Somewhere Now/Forever Now is totally epic), trilogy influences, a little bit of Warning, and something brand new about it as well.

5 hours ago, Jake69 said:

Haushinka is a great song. Walking Alone is the worst song on nimrod by a long shot imo. 

I'd say Walking Alone is the worst musically (that repetitive harmonica is a bit much ), but I really love its lyrics.

36 minutes ago, henrybr said:

And the most important: I don't think they're trying less. I don't think there's effort lacking. I think that their put everything they had, they made the best they could, when they were writing the trilogy and revrad. Whether if that was enough or not for the fans, its up to each one's opinion.

Agree with most of your post and in particular this!

[Eva]

RevRad might be my favorite Green Day album and I didn't realize it was so highly debated and contested until poking my head in here.

Then again, unlike most Green Day fans, I don't really give a shit about whether the lyrics are considered "meaningful" or not. I don't know half of the lyrics to RevRad and I don't really care. Tre's nailing it on drums and it's catchy and actually feels like a rock album again. And the lyrics that I do know don't seem as shitty to me as they seem to appear to other people. Not everything is a great American rock opera protesting the rise of corporate consumerism and fascist political climates. If RevRad was released by any other somewhat well known rock band, people would be losing their minds over it.

It's not the new Bible and it's not supposed to be. It's music and it's fun.

[Libertine Angel]

12 hours ago, henrybr said:

I think some of you are expecting something that youngblood is not. For me, it's a song about the explosive feeling of have just falled in love. It's not a song that wants to make a deep reflection about love, or look at the complexity or issues of some relationship or infatuation. I thinks it's much simplier, and not less interesting to me. It's all about the overwhelming feeling of meeting someone and falling in love with that person. It's almost like he's so excited that he needs to tell about that person and how awesome she is, and talk to her like "hey, are you like me? do you wanna hang around?". I don't think that 80 or Only Of You, two great song by the way, have this same spirit. Perhaps those songs are better than youngblood, but I don't think that makes youngblood a silly song or a bad song. But, of course, it's ok to deslike the song, i just think that the song fits its purpose.

 

12 hours ago, Wretched & Divine said:

Some of you guys seem to want a lyrical masterpiece out of him in every single song he writes, and I find that a little ridiculous  Youngblood obviously was never meant to be anything more than a fun and catchy throwback to when he was first pursuing Adrienne, looking on it now with a sense of fondness. It paints such a cute picture of young/insecure Billie falling in love with this woman who exudes confidence in herself, and how much that appeals to him.

The thing is with these defences is that Billie expressed it so much better the first time round when it was actually happening. It's fine to look back on that time, just as long as that reminiscence isn't a pale imitation of the original.

6 hours ago, Kaddi. said:

I'll probably be ripped apart for this, but I think Revolution Radio sounds a lot like the trilogy at times. Some songs on there are a lot better, but some are not at all and might as well have been on the trilogy (Youngblood, Too Dumb To Die, Say Goodbye). Revolution Radio is nowhere near AI or 21st CB for me, unfortunately.

I agree completely, like I've said before I think Bang Bang is one of their best in years and nothing else on the album compares.

6 hours ago, Hermione said:

Hmm yeah it might be the worst song on Nimrod. I like it well enough, especially in combination with Jinx. But I do think the fact that it was originally written years before (Kerplunk times apparently) shows, lyrically it isn't on the same level as the rest of the album.

Nah, the only Nimrod song I actively dislike is Take Back.

[unextraordinarygirl]

Wow you guys are taking all the fun out of it. Yes, Fun! Music is supposed to be enjoyable to listen to, not so serious. Some of you are analyzing Rev Rad to death. It 's ok to disagree and not like the album but this is at a new level. 

[Libertine Angel]

Just now, unextraordinarygirl said:

Wow you guys are taking all the fun out of it. Yes, Fun! Music is supposed to be enjoyable to listen to, not so serious. Some of you are analyzing Rev Rad to death. It 's ok to disagree and not like the album but this is at a new level. 

Some people find different things enjoyable to listen to though.

[Beerjeezus]

3 minutes ago, unextraordinarygirl said:

Wow you guys are taking all the fun out of it. Yes, Fun! Music is supposed to be enjoyable to listen to, not so serious. Some of you are analyzing Rev Rad to death. It 's ok to disagree and not like the album but this is at a new level. 

I'm afraid this is so called #classicGDC. 

1 hour ago, Eva said:

RevRad might be my favorite Green Day album and I didn't realize it was so highly debated and contested until poking my head in here.

Then again, unlike most Green Day fans, I don't really give a shit about whether the lyrics are considered "meaningful" or not. I don't know half of the lyrics to RevRad and I don't really care. Tre's nailing it on drums and it's catchy and actually feels like a rock album again. And the lyrics that I do know don't seem as shitty to me as they seem to appear to other people. Not everything is a great American rock opera protesting the rise of corporate consumerism and fascist political climates. If RevRad was released by any other somewhat well known rock band, people would be losing their minds over it.

It's not the new Bible and it's not supposed to be. It's music and it's fun.

I couldn't agree more. 

[Hermione]

46 minutes ago, Libertine Angel said:

 

Nah, the only Nimrod song I actively dislike is Take Back.

I don't actively dislike anything on Nimrod but those are probably my least favourites (although Walking Alone gets a lot of extra points for those lyrics). Take Back is great  

1 hour ago, Eva said:

RevRad might be my favorite Green Day album and I didn't realize it was so highly debated and contested until poking my head in here.

Then again, unlike most Green Day fans, I don't really give a shit about whether the lyrics are considered "meaningful" or not. I don't know half of the lyrics to RevRad and I don't really care. Tre's nailing it on drums and it's catchy and actually feels like a rock album again. And the lyrics that I do know don't seem as shitty to me as they seem to appear to other people. Not everything is a great American rock opera protesting the rise of corporate consumerism and fascist political climates. If RevRad was released by any other somewhat well known rock band, people would be losing their minds over it.

It's not the new Bible and it's not supposed to be. It's music and it's fun.

27 minutes ago, unextraordinarygirl said:

Wow you guys are taking all the fun out of it. Yes, Fun! Music is supposed to be enjoyable to listen to, not so serious. Some of you are analyzing Rev Rad to death. It 's ok to disagree and not like the album but this is at a new level. 

To be fair this is the unpopular opinions thread, it's designed for people to air their unpopular (so usually negative) GD thoughts. Judging by the RevRad thread and the individual song threads it's a minority of people who dislike it, much more of a love fest there.

[stories and songs]

5 hours ago, MikeDirntConfused said:

 

I think everyone needs to work hard to succeed. Take Taylor Swift, Drake, Kanye, for examples. These artists always make their next album as if it's going to be their last, and consequently, the albums are huge and stay in the minds of people for a long, long time.  

GD doesn't want to work hard anymore, it's that simple. Yet fans for some reason support that because they're GD.

 

Comparing how hard Green Day works vs. how hard Taylor Swift works is not measurable in any way. I'm a fan of Taylor and think she's a great songwriter. She has fantastic vision for her tours and for her image, and I loved 1989 (that's what I did during Green Day's hiatus, yes). But to be totally honest? A lot of the songs on that album sound similar to one another. It's a sonically cohesive album that I love, but the ambition doesn't lie in the content, per se. It's not particularly diverse or new. Actually, it has some of her weakest lyrics to date. But she reinvents her image with every new era. That's where she's utterly brilliant.

But she's a pop star. Green Day is a rock band, and their image doesn't rely on such seismic shifts from era to era. Their innovation needs to come from a different place. The trilogy, for the most part, felt superficial and weak to me—not much sounded new, and the lyrics weren't particularly insightful or personal (with some exceptions). Even so, I don't doubt a lot of work went into it—the sheer number of songs takes a lot of effort to write and record and split between albums. 

But then there's RevRad, which I view as Green Day's most honest and personal album to date. There is immense bravery in being honest—stripping away the characters and concepts and just being yourself for the first time in more than a decade. From a writer's perspective, the hardest thing in the world is opening up in such a raw way and sharing that with readers/listeners. Writing a rock opera is, no doubt, a gigantic undertaking musically and lyrically. But there is a different kind of strength and persistence needed to write in the most genuine way possible. This is a version of Green Day I've never seen before this year. To publicly fight personal battles and live to proudly tell the tale takes a hell of a lot of work. I understand you don't care for this album, but it's actually not possible to objectively state how hard they work compared to other artists. Because that covers so many bases—how much they tour, how much effort goes into writing/recording, the creativity of the theme of the album, etc. It's not possible to define so simply. For me? I'll take heart and honesty over cold ambition any day. 

[Beerjeezus]

4 hours ago, MikeDirntConfused said:

GD doesn't want to work hard anymore, it's that simple.

If I were them, I'd just spend the rest of my life on the couch tbh. 

[That Dude]

10 hours ago, Hermione said:

Hmm yeah it might be the worst song on Nimrod. I like it well enough, especially in combination with Jinx. But I do think the fact that it was originally written years before (Kerplunk times apparently) shows, lyrically it isn't on the same level as the rest of the album.

It's my least favorite Green Day song.  There might be one or two on Kerplunk that don't do much for me, but when I try and think of a bad Green Day song, this is the one that comes to my mind.  

 

[Clockwise]

Really surprised at the Haushinka hate.