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Hermione

Vegetarians and Vegans

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Hermione

Yeah fish bones are often used in the production of wine or other alcoholic drinks. And there's a red food colouring (called cochineal or E120 here) which is made from cochineal beetles. Used to be in red Smarties but they changed to using an extract from red cabbage so they're vegetarian now :happy:. I usually just look for "suitable for vegetarians" on packets and then only take a closer look at the ingredients if I don't see it, in the UK at least they seem to put it on pretty much everything that is.

Why can't I even buy a pack of sunflower seeds without the shells being coated with pepperoni? I never even considered checking the ingredients! Ugh.

What?! That sounds like the weirdest food ever.

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November's Storms

What?! That sounds like the weirdest food ever.

I did glance at the packet when buying it and it said "flavoured with spices" so I thought that might be kinda nice. Only after trying a few and being suspicious of the taste did I think to check the ingredients. It had some herbs and spices listed and then for reasons I can't fathom the pepperoni was there. I might add, because sunflower seeds aren't huge in Britain or Ireland, that it's the shell which is coated and flavoured. Rather like pistachio nuts you break off the shell and eat the seed inside.

Any podcast lovers out there able to recommend a good veggie podcast?

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Hermione

I did glance at the packet when buying it and it said "flavoured with spices" so I thought that might be kinda nice. Only after trying a few and being suspicious of the taste did I think to check the ingredients. It had some herbs and spices listed and then for reasons I can't fathom the pepperoni was there. I might add, because sunflower seeds aren't huge in Britain or Ireland, that it's the shell which is coated and flavoured. Rather like pistachio nuts you break off the shell and eat the seed inside.

I see, didn't realize pepperoni could be used as a seasoning! Bit of a strange one. Sounds like a nice idea apart from that as well.

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Katarina.

Yeah fish bones are often used in the production of wine or other alcoholic drinks. And there's a red food colouring (called cochineal or E120 here) which is made from cochineal beetles. Used to be in red Smarties but they changed to using an extract from red cabbage so they're vegetarian now :happy:. I usually just look for "suitable for vegetarians" on packets and then only take a closer look at the ingredients if I don't see it, in the UK at least they seem to put it on pretty much everything that is.

I hate this! E120 is in most sweets that use red food colouring when I look for it. M&Ms still have it, I guess skittles too. Hate it.

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colour_me_stupid_

Accidentally ate meat at a party last night. :(

They looked exactly like spring rolls, and were the only things that looked remotely vegetarian, but I bit into it and there was meat. Bummed me out!

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fukingcounterstrike

Yeah I don't even. The colorant they use for it comes from some type of bug.

Well, when you imagine how many insects they kill with repelent to grow all the fruits and vegetables you eat, is it really that big of a deal?

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Dai.

Well, when you imagine how many insects they kill with repelent to grow all the fruits and vegetables you eat, is it really that big of a deal?

It's not the same because I don't ingest those insects with my vegetables, but I suppose you have a good point, I hadn't thought of that, to be honest. However, I have to do the best I can to harm as few animal lives as possible. And giving up my favorite alcoholic beverage is something I can do; it's not like I have to give up all alcohol.

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fukingcounterstrike

It's not the same because I don't ingest those insects with my vegetables, but I suppose you have a good point, I hadn't thought of that, to be honest. However, I have to do the best I can to harm as few animal lives as possible. And giving up my favorite alcoholic beverage is something I can do; it's not like I have to give up all alcohol.

Wouldn't really be that bad of an idea, but it would just feel so absolutely wrong

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Spike

So this is quite a long article, but I found it very intriguing and worth the read. It's a piece from a woman who's veganism was making her ill in more ways than I care to mention here, and who recovered quickly after beginning to eat meat again. I was wondering what you guys thought of it.

Link.

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Emilie

that makes me feel better about having to eat meat. I feel bad for her 'cause she obviously really didn't want to eat meat again, but it's good to know I'm not the only one

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Hermione

I'd just see it as lacking certain vitamins/minerals etc in her diet making her ill, and consuming them again making her better. Seems kind of weird how meat is presented like this magical food there without it ever mentioning what exactly it is it contains that can't also be found in other foods. If someone's lacking something in their diet and then starts eating it again of course they'll get healthier, and if eating meat is the way that works for her then that's fine, but I'm not convinced that eating meat was the only possible solution the way that doctor implied to her.

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klytaemnestra

i've been a vegetarian my entire life and i'm on the border of anaemic, plus i have like four thousand different vitamin deficiencies. i just take loads of supplements or up my spinach intake, eat more berries, go outside more, or whatever. i don't get why the first solution is always start eating meat again!!! no. just eat healthier, find out what you're deficient in and go from there.

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November's Storms

Almost any dietary requirements can be met without causing suffering to animals. We need certain nutrients to survive and prosper and all of those nutrients can be found in plant based food. It would be a very rare case where meat is the solution, or a case with an ulterior motive.

Well, when you imagine how many insects they kill with repelent to grow all the fruits and vegetables you eat, is it really that big of a deal?

I've heard arguments like this used before and they don't stand up in my eyes. Using repellents and the technology involved in them is a reality of the modern mass food industry these days. Veggies consciously attempt to avoid as much death and suffering as part of their lifestyles, so why harass them over something that is out of their control? You might hit a few bugs on a drive one day, but you don't live a life that sets out to knowingly inflict cruelty.

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fukingcounterstrike

Almost any dietary requirements can be met without causing suffering to animals. We need certain nutrients to survive and prosper and all of those nutrients can be found in plant based food. It would be a very rare case where meat is the solution, or a case with an ulterior motive.

I've heard arguments like this used before and they don't stand up in my eyes. Using repellents and the technology involved in them is a reality of the modern mass food industry these days. Veggies consciously attempt to avoid as much death and suffering as part of their lifestyles, so why harass them over something that is out of their control? You might hit a few bugs on a drive one day, but you don't live a life that sets out to knowingly inflict cruelty.

Basically the point I wanted to make. I have no problems with the life style veggies choose, and to me it's incredible that they can have the will and determination to follow through with that life style based off those values. At the same time I do notice that those values wouldn't exactly be compromised through certain foods and drinks, but because of trying to follow the defining qualities of the terms vegetarian and vegan, end up depriving themselves of something they might otherwise enjoy.

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November's Storms

Basically the point I wanted to make. I have no problems with the life style veggies choose, and to me it's incredible that they can have the will and determination to follow through with that life style based off those values. At the same time I do notice that those values wouldn't exactly be compromised through certain foods and drinks, but because of trying to follow the defining qualities of the terms vegetarian and vegan, end up depriving themselves of something they might otherwise enjoy.

Fair point. I don't consider myself being deprived of anything anymore though, except perhaps convenience, which I can live with. In the early days of being veggie I used to hate walking past a McDonalds because I would always be tempted by the smell, or if my friends were cooking something that I really wanted but couldn't have anymore. Now I just don't see them as options anymore.

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Hermione

I'm probably only still vegetarian because I find it so easy. I'm completely satisfied with food that isn't meat and I make my own meals, so it's just a case of do I eat some meat for dinner or do I eat something else? I'll enjoy the meal just as much either way so it's a no brainer that I'll pick the option that doesn't involve an animal being killed. The tiny possible amount of enjoyment I might get from eating meat is so small in my case that it doesn't justify it. I don't even really feel that strongly about it because I know that in reality my not eating meat will only have a minuscule (at best) effect on how many animals suffer and are killed. But there's so much other food I enjoy that there's just no need for me to eat it so I might as well take that small and easy step.

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colour_me_stupid_

Why didn't the woman in that article go back to vegetarianism to see if that worked? She shites on an awful lot about how the doctor told her she had to start eating meat again and no no she wouldn't do it. But she didn't just go back to adding dairy products etc to her diet without the meat, did she?

I find that a little odd. Sure, if she went from veganism back to vegetarianism and that still didn't work, fair enough.

Interesting article all the same.

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Hermione

Why didn't the woman in that article go back to vegetarianism to see if that worked? She shites on an awful lot about how the doctor told her she had to start eating meat again and no no she wouldn't do it. But she didn't just go back to adding dairy products etc to her diet without the meat, did she?

I find that a little odd. Sure, if she went from veganism back to vegetarianism and that still didn't work, fair enough.

Interesting article all the same.

Yeah I could see going straight back to meat rather than just dairy products if she'd only been vegan for the sake of being healthy. But if it was for the sake of animals it does seem a bit strange to not at least try just having dairy products first. Seems like she was sold the idea that it's "unnatural" not to eat meat and that meat has something uniquely special about it rather than it just being one good source of certain nutrients. If the article mentioned what specific property meat has that can't be replicated by any other food/foods then the meat being the only possible option angle she went with would be a lot more convincing. But it doesn't. Like I said if she felt like going with that option and it worked for her then fine, but not sure why it needs to be presented as if it was the only one.

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Emilie

it wasn't really presented as the only option though? The part I took away was how the doctor (was it the doctor?) said that nutrition is a complicated thing and different people will respond differently to various diets. I know some people who can go vegetarian without using any supplements or whatever and feel absolutely fine. But other people on exactly the same diet (like myself) just can't function properly without meat. Still don't understand why, it just doesn't work. You slowly wear yourself down until you're ill and fatigued and generally just really shitty-feeling. Then after a week or so of eating meat again you're back to normal.

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Hermione

it wasn't really presented as the only option though? The part I took away was how the doctor (was it the doctor?) said that nutrition is a complicated thing and different people will respond differently to various diets. I know some people who can go vegetarian without using any supplements or whatever and feel absolutely fine. But other people on exactly the same diet (like myself) just can't function properly without meat. Still don't understand why, it just doesn't work. You slowly wear yourself down until you're ill and fatigued and generally just really shitty-feeling. Then after a week or so of eating meat again you're back to normal.

Well yeah eating meat works of course as it contains the nutrients she was lacking, but in that whole huge article full of scientific stuff it never mentions what it actually is in meat that can't be found in other foods. It sounds as if it was presented to her by the doctor as if you just need to eat meat to be healthy, as if it has something that nothing else has. I could maybe understand if it was presented that you need to eat some dairy/eggs to be healthy as it can be very difficult to get everything you need with a vegan diet, but as far as I'm aware most people can everything with a vegetarian diet so it seems slightly strange not to try that first rather than going straight from strict vegan to eating meat or at least mention it as another option. I have nothing against her (or anyone lol) at all for eating meat and I've glad she's found a diet that works for her, but it just seems the doctor was biased in giving her the impression that she had to eat meat to do that without actually explaining the specifics of why.

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Daughter.of.Rage.and.Love

To me it seemed as if the doctor didn't immediately jump to meat. She recommended supplements, or just adding eggs to her diet, as well.

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November's Storms

So did you know we're all going to get cancer? Vegetarians get cancer much easier according to my flatmate. My dislike of her was always there but she turned it up to boiling point. So ignorant.

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klytaemnestra

So did you know we're all going to get cancer? Vegetarians get cancer much easier according to my flatmate. My dislike of her was always there but she turned it up to boiling point. So ignorant.

fuck. i should warn my parents.

:mellow:

ok so the heavy sarcasm isn't noticeable but it's there ok just believe me.

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November's Storms

I believed you before reading the last bit don't worry. Just realized later that I made my 10,000th post in this thread unknowingly. Glad I did now :)

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wood

Interesting story. A college friend of mine and I were looking to make some healthy lifestyle changes so we decided to cut out meat from our diets. We didn’t do it all in one step, though. Started out by taking out dark meat and then poultry. I must admit, chicken breast was the hardest to get rid of.

We both still ate fish. We would host a dinner at each other’s flats once a week and make fish the main entrée. It was the one thing we really couldn’t cut out!

However, her boyfriend, who ironically worked at the hamburger/beef place at the university, started getting weird about us hanging out so often and would call our dinners “dates.” He couldn’t be more wrong. He would taunt her and they almost broke up over it. Eventually, he got a hold of me on Facebook and told me to stay away from his girl or else things would get violent.

When I saw her the next day, I said “Tell your boyfriend, if he says he's got beef that I'm a vegetarian and I'm not fucking scared of him.”

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