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Would You Like Butch Vig to Produce Next Album/Is Rob Cavallo to Blame for Trilogy's Lack of Success?


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Poll: Would you like to see Butch Vig return as a producer for Green Day's next album? (159 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you like to see Butch Vig return as a producer for Green Day's next album?

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Is Rob Cavallo to blame for the Trilogy's lack of success?

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#61
Big Cheese

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Steve Albini's production would work great with a record like Insomniac, but it wouldn't go too well with GD's recent output. Still an interesting idea nonetheless. Why don't they just get several different people, like certain songs produced by Rob, some by Butch, some by Bill Stevenson, an Insomniac-style song with Albini, and then have them do an actual collab with Dave Grohl!



#62
Matt.

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Ummmm...... maybe the whole I Heart incident was to blame?

 

Surely, Rob could have put his foot down and said "no" to the whole 3 albums thing and recommended to create a "compilation" of the best 15 or so.



#63
velvetgrass

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I wouldn't mind Butch Vig returning but honestly I'd much rather have Butch produce the next Foo Fighters album, since Wasting Light was one of their best albums front-to-back imo. I don't think Rob Cavallo is to blame for the lack of success of Uno, Dos, and Tre. A lack of singles, proper promotion, and some unfocused, similar sounding music is to blame for those albums lack of success. A producer typically is the mastermind of the mixing process and contributes to the arrangement of songs. But to blame him for the albums not doing as well as hoped is absurd. My stance is exactly the same for people who say the reason Metallica's album St. Anger is so poor is due to Bob Rock. The reason I think that album turned out the way it did because of a whirlwind of major problems within and outside of the band during the albums creation. And I think Metallica were pussies for publicly firing and replacing Bob Rock as producer on Death Magnetic. Their reasoning was that the fans didn't like him which is the whole "blame the producer" syndrome.

 

So would I be against Rob Cavallo producing the next Green Day album, if there is one? Hell no! He's produced their most successful albums Dookie and American Idiot, plus my favorite Green Day album Nimrod... enough said, his track record is great!


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#64
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Steve Albini's production would work great with a record like Insomniac, but it wouldn't go too well with GD's recent output. Still an interesting idea nonetheless. Why don't they just get several different people, like certain songs produced by Rob, some by Butch, some by Bill Stevenson, an Insomniac-style song with Albini, and then have them do an actual collab with Dave Grohl!

No. No, no, no, no, no. I can't remember the last time I heard a good album that had multiple producers. Generally speaking, it just doesn't work. It definitely doesn't make for a cohesive album. A collab with Dave Grohl would be fucking sweet, though.



#65
Big Cheese

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No. No, no, no, no, no. I can't remember the last time I heard a good album that had multiple producers. Generally speaking, it just doesn't work. It definitely doesn't make for a cohesive album. A collab with Dave Grohl would be fucking sweet, though.

Dude, I was actually joking. Multiple producers for one album would be complete shit.



#66
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Dude, I was actually joking. Multiple producers for one album would be complete shit.

Well that was clear... :lol:

 

My go-to crappy album by multiple producers is actually by my favourite band. :( http://en.wikipedia....reachers_album)



#67
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Well that was clear... :lol:

You don't always have to make it obvious you're joking. :lol:

 

Anyways, a ton of producers for one album would just feel like a compilation, it wouldn't have the feel of a proper album. It would be better if they just did like one EP that was entirely produced by Rob or something and then another that was entirely by Butch or someone else. That wouldn't be as bad.


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#68
Iain

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You can't exactly pin the quality or underachievement of the trilogy on one man. Maybe Cavallo could have done better to some people, subjectively, but I felt the amount of work that was put in this trilogy can also show how it's a bit unbalanced, though that's not to say there's nothing I like. I like a lot of ¡TRÉ! because it's closer to the typical Green Day sound compared to the other two albums, but even on them the production has a strong quality, it's a bit unbalanced but there are some good sounding numbers in there. I don't mind Cavallo and I wouldn't mind him doing another album.

 

As for Butch Vig I wouldn't mind him doing it again, but it really depends on the album direction and not Warner/Reprise/Green Day playing producer roulette. You can say 21stCB is over-produced but it makes sense in the album's music direction, it has many different tones and emotions, and his production quality in that context, in my opinion, is fantastic. I wouldn't mind another but I'd like to see him do a normal album; sound-wise, I find Cavallo's style a bit flatter compared Vig's, I feel his style has more depth.


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#69
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I really didn't like when Butch Vig produced 21st Century Breakdown. He kind of has a reputation for overdoing it. Maybe that helped with the grand sound of 21CB though. But I don't think he should return. I feel like that was a one time thing, probably due to the tension between Green Day and Cavallo that they mentioned in Cuatro.

 

Rob Cavallo really isn't to blame for the Trilogy. The Trilogy fell apart due to rehab: simple as that. Sure, Rob could have pushed Green Day in a different direction sound-wise (weak guitars?), but I don't really think that's his role. I think Green Day has earned their right to do whatever they want, and Rob is a close friend who serves as a second opinion since artists can get so caught up in their own music. I think Rob's relationship with Green Day is more casual, like a jam partner. In Cuatro he was playing some of the guitars, laughing along with them. I think he has a lot of admiration for Green Day, and respect for the fact that some of Green Day's albums boosted his own career to the success it is now.

 

Plus, he produced Dookie and American Idiot, both amazing albums, along with Insomniac and Nimrod. The poor sound of the Trilogy was due to weak lyrics, repetitive style, and weak guitar tone. That was Green Day's creative choice.



#70
LudeBoy

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More like the trilogy ruined Rob Cavallo.



#71
JardyOfSuburbia

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The problem was there was "Too Much Too Soon." Nobody really knew how to promote the albums. Everything about the trilogy was a disaster. Great stuff but it needed to be a double-album. Cut eight of the songs and releasing one album would have suited them better.

 

I talked to a DJ for a radio station in Columbus and his thoughts were that they had no way of promoting the trilogy and the record company wasn't prepared for it at all.



#72
WeAllFloatDownHere

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I really didn't like when Butch Vig produced 21st Century Breakdown. He kind of has a reputation for overdoing it. Maybe that helped with the grand sound of 21CB though. But I don't think he should return. I feel like that was a one time thing, probably due to the tension between Green Day and Cavallo that they mentioned in Cuatro.
 
Rob Cavallo really isn't to blame for the Trilogy. The Trilogy fell apart due to rehab: simple as that. Sure, Rob could have pushed Green Day in a different direction sound-wise (weak guitars?), but I don't really think that's his role. I think Green Day has earned their right to do whatever they want, and Rob is a close friend who serves as a second opinion since artists can get so caught up in their own music. I think Rob's relationship with Green Day is more casual, like a jam partner. In Cuatro he was playing some of the guitars, laughing along with them. I think he has a lot of admiration for Green Day, and respect for the fact that some of Green Day's albums boosted his own career to the success it is now.
 
Plus, he produced Dookie and American Idiot, both amazing albums, along with Insomniac and Nimrod. The poor sound of the Trilogy was due to weak lyrics, repetitive style, and weak guitar tone. That was Green Day's creative choice.


One role of a producer is to give input to the songs not just sit and let a band just do whatever and be a yes man...
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#73
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Sorry, two topics in one thread, but they go hand-in-hand. I know a lot of people didn't like Butch Vig and hated 21st Century Breakdown. But after seeing Rob Cavallo return for the Trilogy, what do you guys think? Was Rob Cavallo a problem with the Trilogy? Is he to blame for the Trilogy not being liked by you guys? What if Butch Vig did the next album? I'm interested to hear your thoughts on these topics. 

Are you serious? First of all, I'm fuckin tired of all the trilogy hate, those are three damn good albums. Maybe not their best work, but definitely not their worst. Second, you do realize Cavallo produced both Dookie and AI right? I'm pretty sure he's produced everything but the lookout stuff, Warning and 21CB so he's earned his chops. Why not blame Jason while you're at it! 



#74
WeAllFloatDownHere

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Are you serious? First of all, I'm fuckin tired of all the trilogy hate, those are three damn good albums. Maybe not their best work, but definitely not their worst. Second, you do realize Cavallo produced both Dookie and AI right? I'm pretty sure he's produced everything but the lookout stuff, Warning and 21CB so he's earned his chops. Why not blame Jason while you're at it! 


Just cause Rob produced Dookie or AI doesnt mean everything he produces will have the same quality as past albums...

#75
boringdays

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No it doesn't, but just because he produced those three not the one before it doesn't make him to blame for the trilogy's failure.



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#76
WeAllFloatDownHere

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No it doesn't, but just because he produced those three not the one before it doesn't make him to blame for the trilogy's failure.


I think people want to find blame in others (like Rob or the label) than to put the blame on the band (not saying anyone is really doing that)

Theres multiple reasons why the trilogy didnt succeed...

Sales point cause of the lousy promo (which sadly was halted by a situation that needed to be dealt with just sadly at a wrong time)

Fan wise it didnt succed to alot of fans cause the albums seems unfocused as in the lyrics seems rushed alot of rehashed sounding music and yes the production and the use of clean tones were off putting to alot of fans even if the sales were great alot of fans would have still not like the albums

#77
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One role of a producer is to give input to the songs not just sit and let a band just do whatever and be a yes man...

I know. But what I'm saying is that he is probably more of a friend than a coworker at this point. But yeah, I'm sure he had to have agreed with the sound or else he would have said something.



#78
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I know. But what I'm saying is that he is probably more of a friend than a coworker at this point. But yeah, I'm sure he had to have agreed with the sound or else he would have said something.

Any producer worth anything would maintain professionalism when doing their job. Sure he's a close friend of the band and can join in when they're joking around, but when it comes down to it I'm sure he's doing everything he can and should to be the best producer possible.



#79
Todd

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Are you serious? First of all, I'm fuckin tired of all the trilogy hate, those are three damn good albums. Maybe not their best work, but definitely not their worst. Second, you do realize Cavallo produced both Dookie and AI right? I'm pretty sure he's produced everything but the lookout stuff, Warning and 21CB so he's earned his chops. Why not blame Jason while you're at it! 

Hey, first of all, calm down. Did I say I hate the trilogy? Did I say it was shit? No. I didn't state my opinion there at all. Second, did I say Rob Cavallo was a bad producer? Nope. Nowhere close. Find someone else to flip shit at.

And btw, what do you think is worse than the trilogy? Would you like it if I flipped out at you for not liking it? Don't get pissed off over someone else's opinion
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#80
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Like have some of his original songs and have him singing, like on Pinhead Gunpowder?

That concept and Green Day don't need to be mutually exclusive



#81
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Butch Vig returning? No. I don't want another overly produced album. And as for Rob, he is a genius. He does good work and involves himself with the music, which is quite awesome. There are always hits and misses and lets consider Trilogy one of his misses. But there are some pretty well produced numbers in the trilogy too. Lets not overlook that.



#82
Jon Benjamin

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I want Joey Sturgis (one of Rise Records' main producers, Emily's Army's label) to produce a Green Day album. Then again, the overproduction would be about 10x as much, it'd sound great but there'd be lots of complaints.

#83
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Who cares, they're just gonna go full fledge pop anyways.

#84
Jimmy Strummer

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Steve albini... Now that would be a fucking record!

Well, Billie DID say in the Rolling Stone interview from last year that he wanted to do a record that was more lo-fi and a bit more akin to hearing just the band playing live in a room, something that Albini has captured very well on albums like Nirvana's In Utero and the Pixies' Surfer Rosa.


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#85
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No, and kind of. 

 

I think Rob is still a better producer. I feel like 21CB was over produced. I think the trilogy's main problem (for me) was the guitars felt lacking. 

 

But I still think some of Green Day's best work has been with Rob. I think it would have been better if he had pushed them to make one single strong album. But I'm also not sure if any producer could have done that.

Things I liked about Butch: He helped focus the band when they needed to get back to work and nail down what songs were going to make the cut for Breakdown.  He also pushed Billie into vocal areas he'd never gone before.

 

Things I didn't like about Butch: He then proceeded to mix Billie's new, fantastic vocals and Tre's percussion into a fucking tin can, while squelching Mike's bass line.  There's a reason the entire set of Breakdown songs sound much better live, and unfortunately a big part of that reason is Butch Vig's production style.

 

Things I liked about Rob: He knows Green Day's capabilities probably better than anyone, and in his hands they create a sound that makes the room explode.

 

Things I don't like about Rob: His strengths are studio work and production quality, and I think that's where they end.  To me, he doesn't seem to know much more about marketing an album than the guy sitting next to you.  What the fuck was this trying to market an abstract, conceptually loose, adult-oriented sex, drugs, and Rock'nRoll story of thrill, disaster, and redemption to the tweenybopper Usher set using Angry Birds, poor festival choices, and probably the most God-awful bland lead-off single that Green Day has ever put out (don't get me wrong, I do like Oh Love as a song, but it comes out of the starting blocks dull and lost even some die-hard fans before the first guitar riff was over).  Rob may not have been "the" decisionmaker about all of these, and I would strongly suspect that Billie being half bombed of his ass during the late stages of production probably had something to do with the choices that were made as well, but the decisionmakers report to Rob, Rob would have been heavily involved in song selection for the trilogy, and in my opinion he could have and should have laid down a firmer hand here, maybe avoided some of the disasters.

 

So I'm with you here...I'd like to see Green Day go with a different producer on their next album -- one who really fits where they are now, who can get them back to basics (a single, solid album with first-rate song and single choices) and -- this is important -- someone who won't settle for telling the band what they want to hear.  In other words, a real coach in the way that Butch was, but someone who can also make them sound stellar like Rob can.  To be honest, I would love to see Larry Livermore produce for them again after all these years.  That might be a nice fantasy, but one can dream.


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#86
Hermione

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Even though I love 21st CB, the production is my least favourite thing about it as it's often difficult to hear the different elements of the music/it sounds too "mashed together", so can't say I'd particularly want Butch Vig back. Uno Dos and Tre on the other hand have my favourite production ever. Absolutely love how you can hear each instrument/lyric/element of the music so clearly. Plus Rob Cavallo produced quite a few other fabulous sounding Green Day albums! Might be interesting to hear a totally new producer, but I'd be more than happy with Cavallo again.

 

As for whether the production made it more or less successful, I doubt it had any effect but even if it did I don't really care, if the band likes it and I like it that's all that matters. If the production happened to make it more successful then that'd be good but I'd hate for them to change it from the way they wanted it to sound for that reason.

 

The Trilogy was unsuccessful because of Billie's rehab which resulted in absolutely zero promotion.  Had he been healthy and had they made their usual TV rounds, etc. then the Trilogy would have been more successful.  I personally think that the Trilogy was fucking awesome and would have struck home with a lot of people had they actually known about it. 

Agreed 100%!



#87
Supa Hot Fire

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Why are people blaming Rob for promotion and stuff?Do you even know how these things work?I'm not saying I'm an expert but he's the producer.He has as much opinion in the promotion as the band.



#88
WeAllFloatDownHere

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Why are people blaming Rob for promotion and stuff?Do you even know how these things work?I'm not saying I'm an expert but he's the producer.He has as much opinion in the promotion as the band.


Cause Rob is the head of Warner as well
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#89
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Why are people blaming Rob for promotion and stuff?Do you even know how these things work?I'm not saying I'm an expert but he's the producer.He has as much opinion in the promotion as the band.

I don't think they are. They're just saying it wasn't unsuccessful because of Rob's producing, it was unsuccessful because it didn't get promoted properly (which was because of Billie's rehab and maybe whoever's responsible for promotion, not Rob).



#90
JOE THE X-KID

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I hate to say it but really, it was Billies fault.
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