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Would You Like Butch Vig to Produce Next Album/Is Rob Cavallo to Blame for Trilogy's Lack of Success?


Todd

Would you like to see Butch Vig return as a producer for Green Day's next album?  

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No it doesn't, but just because he produced those three not the one before it doesn't make him to blame for the trilogy's failure.

I think people want to find blame in others (like Rob or the label) than to put the blame on the band (not saying anyone is really doing that)

Theres multiple reasons why the trilogy didnt succeed...

Sales point cause of the lousy promo (which sadly was halted by a situation that needed to be dealt with just sadly at a wrong time)

Fan wise it didnt succed to alot of fans cause the albums seems unfocused as in the lyrics seems rushed alot of rehashed sounding music and yes the production and the use of clean tones were off putting to alot of fans even if the sales were great alot of fans would have still not like the albums

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One role of a producer is to give input to the songs not just sit and let a band just do whatever and be a yes man...

I know. But what I'm saying is that he is probably more of a friend than a coworker at this point. But yeah, I'm sure he had to have agreed with the sound or else he would have said something.

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I know. But what I'm saying is that he is probably more of a friend than a coworker at this point. But yeah, I'm sure he had to have agreed with the sound or else he would have said something.

Any producer worth anything would maintain professionalism when doing their job. Sure he's a close friend of the band and can join in when they're joking around, but when it comes down to it I'm sure he's doing everything he can and should to be the best producer possible.

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Are you serious? First of all, I'm fuckin tired of all the trilogy hate, those are three damn good albums. Maybe not their best work, but definitely not their worst. Second, you do realize Cavallo produced both Dookie and AI right? I'm pretty sure he's produced everything but the lookout stuff, Warning and 21CB so he's earned his chops. Why not blame Jason while you're at it!

Hey, first of all, calm down. Did I say I hate the trilogy? Did I say it was shit? No. I didn't state my opinion there at all. Second, did I say Rob Cavallo was a bad producer? Nope. Nowhere close. Find someone else to flip shit at.

And btw, what do you think is worse than the trilogy? Would you like it if I flipped out at you for not liking it? Don't get pissed off over someone else's opinion

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Like have some of his original songs and have him singing, like on Pinhead Gunpowder?

That concept and Green Day don't need to be mutually exclusive

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Butch Vig returning? No. I don't want another overly produced album. And as for Rob, he is a genius. He does good work and involves himself with the music, which is quite awesome. There are always hits and misses and lets consider Trilogy one of his misses. But there are some pretty well produced numbers in the trilogy too. Lets not overlook that.

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I want Joey Sturgis (one of Rise Records' main producers, Emily's Army's label) to produce a Green Day album. Then again, the overproduction would be about 10x as much, it'd sound great but there'd be lots of complaints.

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Steve albini... Now that would be a fucking record!

Well, Billie DID say in the Rolling Stone interview from last year that he wanted to do a record that was more lo-fi and a bit more akin to hearing just the band playing live in a room, something that Albini has captured very well on albums like Nirvana's In Utero and the Pixies' Surfer Rosa.

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No, and kind of.

I think Rob is still a better producer. I feel like 21CB was over produced. I think the trilogy's main problem (for me) was the guitars felt lacking.

But I still think some of Green Day's best work has been with Rob. I think it would have been better if he had pushed them to make one single strong album. But I'm also not sure if any producer could have done that.

Things I liked about Butch: He helped focus the band when they needed to get back to work and nail down what songs were going to make the cut for Breakdown. He also pushed Billie into vocal areas he'd never gone before.

Things I didn't like about Butch: He then proceeded to mix Billie's new, fantastic vocals and Tre's percussion into a fucking tin can, while squelching Mike's bass line. There's a reason the entire set of Breakdown songs sound much better live, and unfortunately a big part of that reason is Butch Vig's production style.

Things I liked about Rob: He knows Green Day's capabilities probably better than anyone, and in his hands they create a sound that makes the room explode.

Things I don't like about Rob: His strengths are studio work and production quality, and I think that's where they end. To me, he doesn't seem to know much more about marketing an album than the guy sitting next to you. What the fuck was this trying to market an abstract, conceptually loose, adult-oriented sex, drugs, and Rock'nRoll story of thrill, disaster, and redemption to the tweenybopper Usher set using Angry Birds, poor festival choices, and probably the most God-awful bland lead-off single that Green Day has ever put out (don't get me wrong, I do like Oh Love as a song, but it comes out of the starting blocks dull and lost even some die-hard fans before the first guitar riff was over). Rob may not have been "the" decisionmaker about all of these, and I would strongly suspect that Billie being half bombed of his ass during the late stages of production probably had something to do with the choices that were made as well, but the decisionmakers report to Rob, Rob would have been heavily involved in song selection for the trilogy, and in my opinion he could have and should have laid down a firmer hand here, maybe avoided some of the disasters.

So I'm with you here...I'd like to see Green Day go with a different producer on their next album -- one who really fits where they are now, who can get them back to basics (a single, solid album with first-rate song and single choices) and -- this is important -- someone who won't settle for telling the band what they want to hear. In other words, a real coach in the way that Butch was, but someone who can also make them sound stellar like Rob can. To be honest, I would love to see Larry Livermore produce for them again after all these years. That might be a nice fantasy, but one can dream.

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Even though I love 21st CB, the production is my least favourite thing about it as it's often difficult to hear the different elements of the music/it sounds too "mashed together", so can't say I'd particularly want Butch Vig back. Uno Dos and Tre on the other hand have my favourite production ever. Absolutely love how you can hear each instrument/lyric/element of the music so clearly. Plus Rob Cavallo produced quite a few other fabulous sounding Green Day albums! Might be interesting to hear a totally new producer, but I'd be more than happy with Cavallo again.

As for whether the production made it more or less successful, I doubt it had any effect but even if it did I don't really care, if the band likes it and I like it that's all that matters. If the production happened to make it more successful then that'd be good but I'd hate for them to change it from the way they wanted it to sound for that reason.

The Trilogy was unsuccessful because of Billie's rehab which resulted in absolutely zero promotion. Had he been healthy and had they made their usual TV rounds, etc. then the Trilogy would have been more successful. I personally think that the Trilogy was fucking awesome and would have struck home with a lot of people had they actually known about it.

Agreed 100%!

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Why are people blaming Rob for promotion and stuff?Do you even know how these things work?I'm not saying I'm an expert but he's the producer.He has as much opinion in the promotion as the band.

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Why are people blaming Rob for promotion and stuff?Do you even know how these things work?I'm not saying I'm an expert but he's the producer.He has as much opinion in the promotion as the band.

Cause Rob is the head of Warner as well

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Why are people blaming Rob for promotion and stuff?Do you even know how these things work?I'm not saying I'm an expert but he's the producer.He has as much opinion in the promotion as the band.

I don't think they are. They're just saying it wasn't unsuccessful because of Rob's producing, it was unsuccessful because it didn't get promoted properly (which was because of Billie's rehab and maybe whoever's responsible for promotion, not Rob).

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Even though I love 21st CB, the production is my least favourite thing about it as it's often difficult to hear the different elements of the music/it sounds too "mashed together", so can't say I'd particularly want Butch Vig back.

That's my exact problem with Butch Vig sometimes. He prefers size rather than detail. He's more concerned with making it sound big rather than making it sound complex and orchestrated. He looks at the big picture rather than fine tuning all of the smaller details. For example, the last Foo Fighters record, Wasting Light. I think it's a great record, but I do feel it's too big at times. Dave Grohl said he wanted to do it in his garage, and he wanted the record to sound like it was done in a garage, but Butch was so concerned with making it sound big and massive that he lost any kind of garage-y sound that the band was going for. And also, I've heard in interviews that Pat Smear played a lot of baritone guitar parts on that record, but I've listened to that whole album front to back countless times as closely as I can, and I cannot for the life of me hear ANY baritone guitar whatsoever. Butch needs to work on giving his projects more detail and more personality rather than sheer size. If he does that, then I wouldn't mind having him back on a Green Day record.

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I don't think they are. They're just saying it wasn't unsuccessful because of Rob's producing, it was unsuccessful because it didn't get promoted properly (which was because of Billie's rehab and maybe whoever's responsible for promotion, not Rob).

It could've been unsuccessful because of Rob's producing. Everyone always complains about the quality and the lack of guitar and shit, all stuff that Rob had input on.

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It could've been unsuccessful because of Rob's producing. Everyone always complains about the quality and the lack of guitar and shit, all stuff that Rob had input on.

It's nitpicking fans who've already bought the albums complaining about that though. As far as it being a success, ie people buying it, I doubt it had much effect.

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Cause Rob is the head of Warner as well

Ah yes!!Totally forgot about that!

Imo we should all accept the trilogy sucked and even if you like it it doesn't have anything that's supposed to be played in the radio these days.So that's why it didn't sell that well.Well of course Stray Heart could become a little bigger though if Billie was around back then.

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As who's gonna produced the next GD album, I don't give a shit.

But isn't absolutely Cavallo's fault if the trilogy wasn't a success; it's the same men who's produced Dookie and AI

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At the end of the day it could have been the best produced album in history and it wouldn't have done any better. If the songs aren't there, the production can't save them. You can't polish a turd, so to speak. The primary issue was the obvious lack of promotion, on top of the fact the general record buying public don't want to splash out for three new albums from the same band in three months. It was a bad idea for mainstream success from the off, but I don't think they were ever really looking for chart positions.

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No, and I think Rob could do something more on the trilogy. I think it's time for a new producer, at last if Billie still wants that "dirtier shitty" sound in the next GD album. Albini would be an Epic fuckin' crazy choice, really awesome. I love how Nirvana's In-Utero sounds.

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I hate to say it but really, it was Billies fault.

I will say this -- One the one hand, Billie has grown and mellowed over time. But that "I don't care what you think, I'm going to do what the fuck I want" has never fully left him, and probably never will. What's the point of constructive criticism from your producer if in the end you're going to do it your way anyway? To be honest it's this piece of his approach to life, that as much as it's steeled him and benefited him and helped make Green Day a band that goes the distance, also holds it back a bit. In the next album the band needs to get out of their comfort zone like they did with Dookie and AI...and that means listening to and accepting well-reasoned advice that you don't necessarily want to hear.
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