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The Music Industry Has Changed - Discuss


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#1
Gregorovich

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Of course it has changed. That's not the question. The question is how and why it has changed - and whether this is for better or for worse. The general consensus among fans of what I call 'real' music (ie. Rock, Jazz, Classical etc.) would suggest that it has certainly changed for the worse. A lot of it is due to the modern system of music distribution and an apparent decline in the attention span of your typical listener. The Album, as a singular piece of music, a vehicle for central musical and lyrical ideas, has become undermined by the Single - a move which mirrors a move towards a more fast-paced, commercial and artless music industry. Modern artists are so many in number that literally fifteen minutes of fame is more than they can ever hope to achieve, unless they are able to tap correctly into the commerce of the industry (either by wearing plaid shirts or constantly having your body on display). Underground bands, who emerge through sheer ability to create and perform, are a thing of the past.

 

http://www.nme.com/n...the-cribs/67944 This article sums up quite well how I feel about the changing music industry. Although NME have apparently twisted Jarman's words slightly, I agree with the content entirely. In effect, the music industry has become capitalised and artless to suit the modern consumer (impatient and unappreciative) at the expense of us, the fans, and the bands we support. Once they are gone, what will be left?


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#2
Kayfabe

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Of course it has changed. That's not the question. The question is how and why it has changed - and whether this is for better or for worse.

So why would you put that as the title? In itself it's a bit 'no fucking duh'

 

Short answer: for the better.



#3
Gregorovich

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So why would you put that as the title? In itself it's a bit 'no fucking duh'

 

Short answer: for the better.

Because we're discussing HOW and WHY it has changed.



#4
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Let's not and say we did.

 

Actually let's not and not lie about it.

 

Let's just not altogether.


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#5
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Interesting question.



#6
The Forgotten

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I blame the 12 year-old girl demographic who eat up whatever the music industry pushes towards them. It's the only reason why we still have crap like Bieber or Nikki Minaj. They're convinced that auto-tune, rap, and EDM is the only thing music has to offer. It's to the point where for every 1 artist that writes their music, there's at least 3 "vocalists" who don't and make twice as much money and are credited with all the fame. It's awful.

 

I will add that I don't think anything mainstream is necessarily bad, it's just the industries pump out these musicians who don't deserve half as much credit as they should.


Edited by The Forgotten, 01 January 2013 - 07:38 PM.


#7
captain peroxide

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People seem to forget that there has always been shitty music, and don't seem to realize there always will be. It's always harder to weed out the good stuff during the era it's actually being produced. AC/DC were despised by music journalists and record label execs up until pretty recently. Yet they're still going. Metallica was underground for their first (and best) four albums, before they got mainstream attention in the 90s. The only band to arguably bridge that gap successfully was The Beatles, the single most successful band of all time. Most bands that are deemed "good" are not successful in the mainstream, and don't dominate the radio. Most bands that are and do, don't last long enough to be remembered. 

 

Pop music is, by it's very nature, engineered to appeal to the widest range of people possible, the lowest common denominator. There will always be shitty "mainstream" music on the radio because that's what most people want to hear. You're having a discussion on a forum dedicated to a specific band. Most people in the world do not have that level of devotion to music, or are that invested in it. That may seem hard to understand, but it's true. Most people don't want to listen to an album 20 times in a row and consider the depth of the lyrics and the nuance of the production, they want a beat to dance and drink to. That's not a reflection of how shitty the modern era is, because it's always been that shitty. If you rely on what the mainstream is into, you're not going to find much worth listening to. Underground bands are not a thing of the past, there's more of them than ever. You're just not looking hard enough.

 

The bigger problem is that the music industry is resisting the wave of technological innovation we're currently experiencing, not that they're championing the same music they always have.


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#8
Lil B The Based God

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Your ignorance of other genres is sad



#9
The Snark

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Underground bands, who emerge through sheer ability to create and perform, are a thing of the past.

WRONG.


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#10
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God, it annoys the hell out of me when people refer to their favorite kinds of music as "the real music." 

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said though. It's pretty obvious that, with the development of the Internet and the emergence of iTunes and YouTube, the music industry has drastically changed.


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#11
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I hope the music industry continues to change. It'll be boring if it stayed the same.

#12
Gregorovich

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God, it annoys the hell out of me when people refer to their favorite kinds of music as "the real music." 

I never listen to Jazz or Classical. I still refer to it as real music, as it takes skill to create and perform. I'm not 'ignorant of other genres' - I respect almost all genres of music except Pop, Rap and Electronic. I have chosen my words VERY carefully. There is a massive difference between 'real' music and music I enjoy.



#13
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I never listen to Jazz or Classical. I still refer to it as real music, as it takes skill to create and perform. I'm not 'ignorant of other genres' - I respect almost all genres of music except Pop, Rap and Electronic. I have chosen my words VERY carefully. There is a massive difference between 'real' music and music I enjoy.

 

Pop, Rap and Electronic music are still genres of music, whether you respect them or not. There is no such thing as "real music." 


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#14
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I blame youtube



#15
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I'm not 'ignorant of other genres' - I respect almost all genres of music except Pop, Rap and Electronic. .

 

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#16
Vespertine

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Also, there are some brilliant pop artists out there. I'm a great fan of Madonna - She's always expressed herself through her music. "Ray of Light" and "American Life" are examples of majestic pop albums. 



#17
Lil B The Based God

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I never listen to Jazz or Classical. I still refer to it as real music, as it takes skill to create and perform. I'm not 'ignorant of other genres' - I respect almost all genres of music except Pop, Rap and Electronic. I have chosen my words VERY carefully. There is a massive difference between 'real' music and music I enjoy.

 

Ignorant. Rap is one of the realest genre there is - and is A LOT harder than it looks, and demands respect. Just because you're exposed to Lil Wayne, Chris Brown, Drake or whatever doesn't mean you need to lash out against the whole genre. Those are just examples, and it doesn't mean rap is garbage. I agree, they represent the genre terribly - but for you to disregard the genre as a whole because you're a close minded fuck is ridiculous. People who give the argument it's just about "weed, cars, and bitches" are idiots. Immortal Technique, Kendrick Lamar, and PLENTY of others don't rap about getting laid and getting paid. They rap about life, and tell a STORY. They pour their hearts out into the music. There's only one song I've EVER cried to and that was "You Never Know" by Immortal Technique. Look that up and tell me rap isn't fucking real. 


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#18
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I never listen to Jazz or Classical. I still refer to it as real music, as it takes skill to create and perform. I'm not 'ignorant of other genres' - I respect almost all genres of music except Pop, Rap and Electronic. I have chosen my words VERY carefully. There is a massive difference between 'real' music and music I enjoy.

Yeah, that's the ignorant part. Claiming that it takes no skill to create some pop, I could see why you'd make that statement even though as a sweeping statement it's false. You're definitely wrong on rap (assuming you're encompassing hip-hop) and electronic too



I blame youtube

For what? Enabling widespread sharing of music? Youtube has done a great service to music in general.


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#19
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I blame youtube

 

Youtube is one of the best things to ever happen to music.


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#20
She is Amanda

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Yeah, that's the ignorant part. Claiming that it takes no skill to create some pop, I could see why you'd make that statement even though as a sweeping statement it's false. You're definitely wrong on rap (assuming you're encompassing hip-hop) and electronic too

For what? Enabling widespread sharing of music? Youtube has done a great service to music in general.

I'm definitely not saying youtube is bad. But to put a song you wrote or made on youtube, it's literally as easy as 1 2 3. Music doesn't have the value it had 30 years ago. Making music used to take so much effort. You had to record a demo, mail it to a record company, if they rejected you, you had to find another one until they did. With youtube, there are talented people who put their music there, but there are also idiots who use garage band or some other free software.

 

Not to mention. We all listen to music for free on youtube now. There is no person who could possibly say, "I have never listened to a song off of youtube." 20 years ago, the only way to listen to music was on a CD. 35 years ago, the only way was a cassette tape, and before that, vinyl records. People actually spent money on their music.

 

 

Youtube is one of the best things to ever happen to music.

 

 

It can also be considered the worst. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not the perfect solution. I'm just saying Youtube changed the music industry, a lot.



#21
Gregorovich

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Yeah, that's the ignorant part. Claiming that it takes no skill to create some pop, I could see why you'd make that statement even though as a sweeping statement it's false. You're definitely wrong on rap (assuming you're encompassing hip-hop) and electronic too

I'm not saying these genres take no skill. But they don't require nearly as much as genres like Classical (which I consider to be the most superior and skilful). You can't even hope to compare Neo-Classical composers like Ludovico Einaudi to any pop, rap or electronic artist in the world. Though I'd like to see you try.

 

In response to rap - I have been exposed to what people call ACTUAL rap, and I don't see it as any more artistic. Yes, rap and hip hop are a lot like classic punk in that a lot of the time they both stem from discontent with society and the desire to make a message. But musically they can't be compared to genres such as jazz or classical.

 

In response to electronic - One thing which, to me, separates out 'real' music from the rest is commitment, something which is absent from electronic artists. Playing instruments like the guitar or the piano at a world-class level takes decades of constant commitment, while creating electronic mixes requires nowhere near this level of engagement, or the saving up of money. One of my friends pirated Fruity Loops last year and learned how to make the same beats and mixes you hear in clubs in under a week.



#22
tresrocknrollgf

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Music is like society; it always has been evolving, and always will be. Let's go back to a more black and white time period; the 1950's. The main music was Jazz and R&B. There was no such thing as "Rock & Roll" yet. Then Bill Hadley and Elvis came along and showed people that you could create something completely different with music. At first, rock was not something that was widely accepted. People found Elvis as a passing fad and a bunch of malarkey to put it. But wait! Then the Beatles come along and completely mix things up again. Keep in mind that adults and elders were not really very fond of rock for the most part, they saw it as rebellious and childish. The development of rock pushed swing and jazz completely off of the map. Bands like The Who and The Rolling Stones were not nearly as respected as they are today because they were pioneers of sound, something a lot of people couldn't deal with. Fast forward a few years, and they're gods. Oh but no, then there's more. These ratty kids called "punks" come onto the scene and threaten to completely label bands like The Who as dinosaurs: ancient history. At the time, bands like the Sex Pistols were not praised by any means. In fact, they were banned from multitudes of labels, clubs, and radio stations. Punks were not accepted. Again, fast forward a few years, and God Save the Queen is marked as one of the most revolutionary albums of the day for this so genre. Now in modern times, both of these genres are highly respected, as they were not when they were still making music.The music business is always evolving. It's kind of like fashion, it goes on a 20 year cycle. For example, punk exploded in the 70's, then in the 90's Nirvana came along and blew up Grunge, a similar genre. In the 80's, dance music was huge, as it is now. This all means that music matures, people evolve, and gain respect for different artists. I recently read Pete Townshends memoir, Who I Am, and he was talking about he disliked Elvis when he was popular because of songs like Hound Dog that were on the radio 24/7. He said that majority of songs that were dominating airplay were lacking meaning and content. Now, we hail Elvis as a pioneer of rock. Who knows, maybe 20 years from now we'll be hailing Kanye West as a genius (not saying this is necessarily true, but you get the point).


Note- There's no argument for what "real" music actually is. You could clap together a couple of spoons and hit a pot and refer to that as music. Rap is music, as is classical.

Edited by tresrocknrollgf, 01 January 2013 - 08:46 PM.


#23
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#24
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"You Never Know" by Immortal Technique. Look that up and tell me rap isn't fucking real. 

Really not a fan of rap, but this song had my full attention for the entire 7,39 minutes. Just... wow. The story is freaking great.  Thank you for the interesting listen. 


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#25
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Music sucks nowadays. Done. :happy:


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#26
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I'm definitely not saying youtube is bad. But to put a song you wrote or made on youtube, it's literally as easy as 1 2 3. Music doesn't have the value it had 30 years ago. Making music used to take so much effort. You had to record a demo, mail it to a record company, if they rejected you, you had to find another one until they did. With youtube, there are talented people who put their music there, but there are also idiots who use garage band or some other free software.

 

Not to mention. We all listen to music for free on youtube now. There is no person who could possibly say, "I have never listened to a song off of youtube." 20 years ago, the only way to listen to music was on a CD. 35 years ago, the only way was a cassette tape, and before that, vinyl records. People actually spent money on their music.

 

 

 

 

It can also be considered the worst. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not the perfect solution. I'm just saying Youtube changed the music industry, a lot.

 

I'm of the opinion that the more music the better. There's something for everyone that way. I see no downside in allowing everyone to express themselves musically.

 

And dismissing people who use Garage Band as idiots is one of the most ludicrous statements I've seen on this site, and believe me, I've seen quite a few.



Music sucks nowadays. Done. :happy:

 

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#27
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*cracks knuckles*

I'm definitely not saying youtube is bad. But to put a song you wrote or made on youtube, it's literally as easy as 1 2 3. Music doesn't have the value it had 30 years ago. Making music used to take so much effort. You had to record a demo, mail it to a record company, if they rejected you, you had to find another one until they did. With youtube, there are talented people who put their music there, but there are also idiots who use garage band or some other free software.

 

Not to mention. We all listen to music for free on youtube now. There is no person who could possibly say, "I have never listened to a song off of youtube." 20 years ago, the only way to listen to music was on a CD. 35 years ago, the only way was a cassette tape, and before that, vinyl records. People actually spent money on their music.

 

It can also be considered the worst. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not the perfect solution. I'm just saying Youtube changed the music industry, a lot.

 

But don't you see? To quote DDP, that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing!

 

Who the hell is going to listen to 'some idiot on garageband' as you put it? Compare that to the number of people that would listen to the next big band, that are able to because they uploaded their songs there. I don't really see what you're saying about the demos thing because songs have to be recorded one way or another, but the great thing about the internet is a) the cream will likely rise and b) you get access to a whole bunch of awesome shit that would never see the light of day if it was up to the record companies.

 

People used to spend money on their music. People also used to ride horse and carts to work. Times change.

I'm not saying these genres take no skill. But they don't require nearly as much as genres like Classical (which I consider to be the most superior and skilful). You can't even hope to compare Neo-Classical composers like Ludovico Einaudi to any pop, rap or electronic artist in the world. Though I'd like to see you try.

 

In response to rap - I have been exposed to what people call ACTUAL rap, and I don't see it as any more artistic. Yes, rap and hip hop are a lot like classic punk in that a lot of the time they both stem from discontent with society and the desire to make a message. But musically they can't be compared to genres such as jazz or classical.

 

In response to electronic - One thing which, to me, separates out 'real' music from the rest is commitment, something which is absent from electronic artists. Playing instruments like the guitar or the piano at a world-class level takes decades of constant commitment, while creating electronic mixes requires nowhere near this level of engagement, or the saving up of money. One of my friends pirated Fruity Loops last year and learned how to make the same beats and mixes you hear in clubs in under a week.

On rap: it's arguably the rawest form of poetry you can find anywhere in music.  The fun here lies in wordplay, and I can think of a few instances that are immensely clever and do take a level of skill to think up. Less than classical? You're right, it is impossible to compare, but not in the way you implied. It's like saying what requires more skill, being an electrician or being a plumber? Different types of skills needed that cross over at parts, but not enough to directly compare.

 

On electronic: again, like with anything, there's grade-a electronic and then there's the "any old stuff" you hear in clubs, which is what your friend learnt. Hell, give me a week and I could write a rap song. I could also write a jazz song and a classical piece. But it wouldn't exactly be groundbreaking stuff.



Music sucks nowadays. Done. :happy:

so wrong lol


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#28
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I'm of the opinion that the more music the better. There's something for everyone that way. I see no downside in allowing everyone to express themselves musically.

 

And dismissing people who use Garage Band as idiots is one of the most ludicrous statements I've seen on this site, and believe me, I've seen quite a few.

I honestly didn't care much until this came into my life... I think even though everyone hates this song, it's where pop music is headed. I never found a huge difference between Call me Maybe and Friday. But apparently Call me Maybe is actually a good song... And I honestly thought that was a joke when I first watched that music video, just like this, and just like Friday. I see what you mean by the more music, the better. But with more music, and fangirls going for a singer just because they're hot, you can't argue that music is slowly losing its value.

 

And my huge issue is, this has so much attention even though its horrible. While there are good singers out there thinking they can get famous through youtube instead of the old fashioned way, just because it's harder.



Music sucks nowadays. Done. :happy:

There will always be good music. You just have to look for it a little. I mean, you found Green Day, and you're obviously a fan.



#29
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I honestly didn't care much until this came into my life... I think even though everyone hates this song, it's where pop music is headed. I never found a huge difference between Call me Maybe and Friday. But apparently Call me Maybe is actually a good song... And I honestly thought that was a joke when I first watched that music video, just like this, and just like Friday. I see what you mean by the more music, the better. But with more music, and fangirls going for a singer just because they're hot, you can't argue that music is slowly losing its value.

 

 

Haha, how do you think Elvis made his money? It wasn't because he was fuck ugly, thats for sure. It's a well established fact that if you're good looking, you'll do better in music. That predates Youtube by a good stretch. Fangirling was definitely not invented by your generation, just check out some live vids of the Beatles. They were worse than a Bieber concert for screaming girls.

 

People want catchy songs that they don't have to think about. There are people who love music, and study it and live it. And then there are those who casually experience it. Youtube caters to both.

 

You could clap together a couple of spoons and hit a pot and refer to that as music. Rap is music, as is classical.

 



#30
Gregorovich

Gregorovich
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Hell, give me a week and I could write a rap song. I could also write a jazz song and a classical piece. But it wouldn't exactly be groundbreaking stuff.

The difference between an amateur and professional classical piece is gigantic in comparison to an amateur and professional electronic or rap piece. The former is a difference made up by literally decades of hard work and dedication.




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