243 replies to this topic

[Ashkonmusic]

I want to start by saying that I'm a Green Day fan from Berkeley.  I have followed the boys from their early years to now, and I'm so appreciative of the fact that GD fans from across the world have come together to form this community.  I just joined and this is my first post, so I don't really know what to expect.  I've actually never posted on any online community page before, but the aforementioned topic had me heated to the point that I needed a place to shout my frustrations and connect with people who could understand.

 

Obviously not all of the Uno!Dos!Tre! reviews have been bad.  Actually a lot of them have been extremely positive.  I was very happy about  Rolling Stone's review of Tre!  for example.  Generally speaking the reviews have been mixed, which is FINE.  I am realistic and don't expect every review to be positive.  While I really enjoy Uno!Dos!Tre!, I am aware of some flaws (Dos! is more of a Foxboro HotTubs album than a GD album IMO, Fuck Time and Nightlife never needed to happen, Brutal Love rips off Sam Cooke's "Bring it on Home to Me" a bit too much for my liking, etc.).  But there is a difference between writing a negative review and being a mean spirited, unqualified, HATER.  This review and others like it fall into that category for me. 

 

Who the hell are you to tell one of the most accomplished bands of our generation to stop making records?  It's one thing to critique the songs on a bands album, but it's another thing entirely to write an article that reeks of resentment, and hatred.  Some of these goddamn reviewers are so detached from what it means to actually be in a band... they talk about these albums as if Green Day is just a cultural entity that should be this, or that, but the fact is that Green Day is just a band.  A good band, that has been making good music for a very long time.  They may not be your cup of tea, or you may like some albums better than others, but to disrespect these guys that have been making rock music at a high level for so long, it's just shameful.  As Billie said himself, they've "been around since f'n nineteen  eighty f'n eight.  They're not Justin Bieber you motherF#@ckrs! LOL 

 

Seriously though, so often critics forget that these are just guys making records.  And I think particularly when you're talking about a band like GD, you need to show a degree of respect when you write about them.  Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on all of this, and for what it's worth, now that all three albums are out, I am so thoroughly enjoying having them all on one playlist and putting them on shuffle.  What a slew of good rock and roll songs.  Thanks boys.

 

-Ashkon from Berkeley

Edited by Ashkonmusic, 22 December 2012 - 07:15 PM.

[Céadóg]

People have these things, they're called opinions. Unfortunately the internet also lets them tell everyone those aforementioned opinions.

[Little Boy Named Miguel]

"Fuck Time and Nightlife never needed to happen"? why, just because they're different?

 

that's an example of one opinion that pisses me off xD

[Vic_Rattlehead]

People have these things, they're called opinions. Unfortunately the internet also lets them tell everyone those aforementioned opinions.

It's not a matter of opinions, it's the way you present your opinion that's important. Ashkon is right, it's become trendy to hate Green Day, and people are just doing it with little to no justification. He's also right about the respect thing, for example, I'm not a huge fan of the Radiohead, but I respect them because they've had a lot of success.

[WhiteTim]

Why is it pissing you off? Did u enjoy the trilogy? If so thats whats the most important

[Kayfabe]

I'm sorry for your butthurt.

 

In my opinion you're right, people need to deliver their points of view with a healthy amount of courtesy, otherwise it comes off as nothing more than bitching and moaning, piss and vinegar. I understand negative reviews of things I happen to like, but some people get so ridiculous with what they say it's like oh, leave. Just go.

[brianbags]

As people have already said, it's about respect because they've been around so long and have been so successful. These reviewers are stuck up dickfaces for trying to talk about the end of their careers.

[Ashkonmusic]

Why is it pissing you off? Did u enjoy the trilogy? If so thats whats the most important

 

 

"Fuck Time and Nightlife never needed to happen"? why, just because they're different?

 

that's an example of one opinion that pisses me off xD

 

I did Tim, and you're right...but I can't help it.  I'm an opinionated, outspoken guy myself, and it just irks me when people hate.  Thanks for the reminder though.  

 

Sorry Miguel lol, I still listen to both of those tracks occasionally... I just think Fuck TIme is a bit too ridiculous for an album opener, which is essentially what it is, and as for Night Life, I have no problem with it being different, I just wish the rapping was better.  The beat, and Billie's chorus are great, but as a big hip-hop fan, I just wish the verses were better.  If someone like Del (The Guerillaz) was on it I think it would have been really frickin cool.  

[Cob]

I'm so tempted to back seat moderate but Tre's Busted Drumkit doesn't like it. 

[Cat C]

But there is a difference between writing a negative review and being a mean spirited, unqualified, HATER.  This review and others like it fall into that category for me. 

 

Who the hell are you to tell one of the most accomplished bands of our generation to stop making records?  It's one thing to critique the songs on a bands album, but it's another thing entirely to write an article that reeks of resentment, and hatred.  Some of these goddamn reviewers are so detached from what it means to actually be in a band... they talk about these albums as if Green Day is just a cultural entity that should be this, or that, but the fact is that Green Day is just a band.  A good band, that has been making good music for a very long time.  They may not be your cup of tea, or you may like some albums better than others, but to disrespect these guys that have been making rock music at a high level for so long, it's just shameful.  As Billie said himself, they've "been around since f'n nineteen  eighty f'n eight.  They're not Justin Bieber you motherF#@ckrs! LOL 

 

Seriously though, so often critics forget that these are just guys making records.  And I think particularly when you're talking about a band like GD, you need to show a degree of respect when you write about them. 

 

I've just had a look at the review you linked there, and disagree with your opinion of it. From what you were saying I expected it to be some kind of poorly written, single sentence statement about how the album/trilogy is categorically bad, but it isn't. The article is generally well-written, they weigh up the good points and are respectful about the band's history, and even wish Billie good luck with his treatment. I agree with your point but this was a bad example of it. I think this was the article's key point:

 

 

These aren’t bad songs; their message is in their lyrics. It’s over. Walk away. These aren’t meant to be harsh words toward the Berkeley trio. They’re part of a truth that needs to be told, no matter how dedicated the fan base is both young and old. When “not bad” is considered a positive note in a band’s ongoing existence, the end is not nigh, it’s already here.

 

See? They're not intending to be harsh, the writer is just giving their opinion.  (Which, let's face it, is a popular one despite what us super fans may consider the albums to be.) I'd actually consider this article to be the most respectful way you could give a bad review of the trilogy. They're not singing praises but manage to maintain class.

 

And, another point I want to make that isn't really directed to you specifically, is that I hope people stop bringing Justin Bieber into music arguments when he has nothing to do with the music in question. What, just because he's an easy target means that we can be extra cruel and disrespectful to him? You don't have to LIKE the music, but you can still treat the artist with respect (which is exactly what you're campaigning for in this post, ironically). It's getting really old.

 

Anyway, back to your post. Your last point seems to contradict itself. These people need to treat Green Day like they're just guys making records, but they also need to treat them with a degree of respect because of their history? So, they're not just guys making records anymore, they're guys with a background of success making records. It doesn't work. You can't see them both ways because those different perspectives contradict each other. They're not guys making records, they're Green Day. I don't get it.

 

Although I love the trilogy and think the sound and feel of the albums are great, this guy in the article you hated does have a point. You can't view the album as good or give great reviews just because Green Day should be respected as a band. It's not fair on the music.

[Gregorovich]

I entirely get where you're coming from. But at the end of the day, you've just got to realise that critical reception and sales don't mean jack shit. All that truly matters is what matters to you. 

[Kayfabe]

As people have already said, it's about respect because they've been around so long and have been so successful. These reviewers are stuck up dickfaces for trying to talk about the end of their careers.

Oh, it's there I'd disagree. Success doesn't mean you have to think they're any good, or even acknowledge their talent. 

[Cob]

You chose a bad example of a classless review. Look to Sputnik music for one of those. 

 

That being said, this review is ridiculous. That's all I will say about it. 

[Ashkonmusic]

I've just had a look at the review you linked there, and disagree with your opinion of it. From what you were saying I expected it to be some kind of poorly written, single sentence statement about how the album/trilogy is categorically bad, but it isn't. The article is generally well-written, they weigh up the good points and are respectful about the band's history, and even wish Billie good luck with his treatment. I agree with your point but this was a bad example of it. I think this was the article's key point:

 

 

 

See? They're not intending to be harsh, the writer is just giving their opinion.  (Which, let's face it, is a popular one despite what us super fans may consider the albums to be.) I'd actually consider this article to be the most respectful way you could give a bad review of the trilogy. They're not singing praises but manage to maintain class.

 

And, another point I want to make that isn't really directed to you specifically, is that I hope people stop bringing Justin Bieber into music arguments when he has nothing to do with the music in question. What, just because he's an easy target means that we can be extra cruel and disrespectful to him? You don't have to LIKE the music, but you can still treat the artist with respect (which is exactly what you're campaigning for in this post, ironically). It's getting really old.

 

Anyway, back to your post. Your last point seems to contradict itself. These people need to treat Green Day like they're just guys making records, but they also need to treat them with a degree of respect because of their history? So, they're not just guys making records anymore, they're guys with a background of success making records. It doesn't work. You can't see them both ways because those different perspectives contradict each other. They're not guys making records, they're Green Day. I don't get it.

 

Although I love the trilogy and think the sound and feel of the albums are great, this guy in the article you hated does have a point. You can't view the album as good or give great reviews just because Green Day should be respected as a band. It's not fair on the music.

Totally hear you, and appreciate your response.  I just picked one of the articles that irked me... there are plenty more that come off as more amateurish.  You're right, the article is well written... the main thing that pisses me off is the sentiment that they should retire.  Seriously, wtf is that?? lol  A lot of his other critiques are valid, but ultimately, I just don't like it when writers take liberty to make a sweeping statement like that.  

 

As for treating them like just a band making records, and being respectful of their history, you're right... I can see how that sounds contradictory.  They are meant as two distinct points, first that critics often forget they are talking about real people that love what they do.  This guy would never tell Billie Joe to his face to walk away for example.  I guess the second point, which is a bit contradictory, was meant to say that if you ARE going to talk that way about someone in a review (which I still don't approve of) at least do it to someone who hasn't already proven that they are in this music thing from the heart.

 

Lastly, as for JB, I just wanted to quote Billie on that, and was amused thatit pertained to my point.  I have no problem with Bieber, and think he's a talented little guy : )  Thanks for the convo.

 

-a

[EggMong]

Fuck Time and Nightlife never needed to happen,

I love Fuck Time and think Nightlife is ok. I know lots of people that like both these songs.

I wouldn't say at all that there was no need for them.

[Advertising]

[Andres]

There have been some pretty bad reviews. As in not well researched or the authors seemed to be bothered more by Green Day and couldn't appreciate the trilogy at all. That was why I wrote my review. I thought it'd be good for fans to read some words on the whole trilogy from another fan.

[Cori]

As for treating them like just a band making records, and being respectful of their history, you're right... I can see how that sounds contradictory.  They are meant as two distinct points, first that critics often forget they are talking about real people that love what they do.  This guy would never tell Billie Joe to his face to walk away for example.  I guess the second point, which is a bit contradictory, was meant to say that if you ARE going to talk that way about someone in a review (which I still don't approve of) at least do it to someone who hasn't already proven that they are in this music thing from the heart.

This whole paragraph is exactly what I've been feeling lately. Whenever someone is very harsh in their criticism of Green Day, or says something immature like "Green Days sucks!1!1!1" I feel a total disconnect to it because it doesn't even seem like they're even talking about the same Green Day that I know. It's like they don't even know that there are actual men behind the band with actual feelings and hopes for their music. They don't make music solely for the purpose of making money like so many seem to do; they do it because it's what they love to do, and they hope that it'll connect with somebody somewhere. So yeah, I totally understand where you're coming from.

[Cat C]

Totally hear you, and appreciate your response.  I just picked one of the articles that irked me... there are plenty more that come off as more amateurish.  You're right, the article is well written... the main thing that pisses me off is the sentiment that they should retire.  Seriously, wtf is that?? lol  A lot of his other critiques are valid, but ultimately, I just don't like it when writers take liberty to make a sweeping statement like that.  

 

As for treating them like just a band making records, and being respectful of their history, you're right... I can see how that sounds contradictory.  They are meant as two distinct points, first that critics often forget they are talking about real people that love what they do.  This guy would never tell Billie Joe to his face to walk away for example.  I guess the second point, which is a bit contradictory, was meant to say that if you ARE going to talk that way about someone in a review (which I still don't approve of) at least do it to someone who hasn't already proven that they are in this music thing from the heart.

 

Lastly, as for JB, I just wanted to quote Billie on that, and was amused thatit pertained to my point.  I have no problem with Bieber, and think he's a talented little guy : )  Thanks for the convo.

 

-a

 

Yeah, definitely agree that what the review was saying about the band was absolute shit, I'm glad you picked up on that instead of assuming I believed it! I get what you're saying now. The JB thing was directed more to everyone who uses his name to support arguments about bad music... I've mentioned it before here so thought I'd explain myself a bit better. I'm not a fan but y'know, he doesn't deserve all the stick he gets.

 

There are definitely worse reviews out there but that's the problem with the internet I suppose, it gives everyone a soapbox to stand on. 

[Cob]

This whole paragraph is exactly what I've been feeling lately. Whenever someone is very harsh in their criticism of Green Day, or says something immature like "Green Days sucks!1!1!1" I feel a total disconnect to it because it doesn't even seem like they're even talking about the same Green Day that I know. It's like they don't even know that there are actual men behind the band with actual feelings and hopes for their music. They don't make music solely for the purpose of making money like so many seem to do; they do it because it's what they love to do, and they hope that it'll connect with somebody somewhere. So yeah, I totally understand where you're coming from.

 

Ever since '94 Green Day has been treated like a corporate rock band. I don't get it. But they've proved themselves musically well more than once, in 5-10 years the band is going to be praised by the same critics that once wrote them off, its happened to a thousand other bands and its happened to them before when critics changed their mind after Dookie and it will happen again.

[As Good As It Gets]

After listening to the albums, I have to say, I thought that review was spot on. They can still do that pop-punk sound, but they can't seem to take it anywhere. It's not a bad, classless review, it's pointing out something worthwhile.

[Ashkonmusic]

I am seriously stoked to be able to have other GD fans to talk to about this.  Makes me feel better lol.  Thanks y'all!

[The Forgotten]

I choose now to not read any reviews of anything I like exactly because of this kind of shit. A lot of reviewers in my opinion are kiss asses or full of shit, and sadly they praise people like Taylor Swift and shit because they're whats "hot". It's a sad reality but sometimes we gotta realize that reviewers want money/readers, some people truly believe Green Day are terrible, and a lot of these witters are lazy and unprofessional that just write a bunch of crap cause that's what's expect of "un-hot" bands such as GD. I prefer to live in my little pathetic bubble of "Green Day is perfect" instead of reading other peoples opinions.

I am seriously stoked to be able to have other GD fans to talk to about this.  Makes me feel better lol.  Thanks y'all!

Yup, you're in the right place for that. Welcome to GDC!

[Ashkonmusic]

After listening to the albums, I have to say, I thought that review was spot on. They can still do that pop-punk sound, but they can't seem to take it anywhere. It's not a bad, classless review, it's pointing out something worthwhile.

 

Once again, this may not be the BEST example of a classless review.  Just one that irked me.  Didn't appreciate the guy telling them to retire.  If anyone wants to help by posting more poorly thought out bad reviews, feel free.  I'm sure we've all seen them....

Edited by Ashkonmusic, 22 December 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[As Good As It Gets]

If the current albums are any sign of where they're going, I wouldn't be against Green Day retiring - I really feel they've lost their originality, and sound far too much like most bands around today

[VIVALAWHATSHERNAME]

Green Day is one of those bands that people love to hate, though, most of the time their hate has little to no grounds and has minimal substance. Through their entire career Green Day has proven critics wrong and seemingly done the impossible.

 

Many people criticized Dookie because it was too poppy and light and speculated that Green Day didn't have it in them to hit harder, and no one expected a heavy aggressive abrasive album like Insomniac. Green Day proved them wrong.

 

After Insomniac no one expected they would make a genre-melting album like Nimrod. Nimrod features several sub-genres of  rock and an acoustic ballad. Green Day proved critics wrong again.

 

And then Warning, which is a nod to folk rock and some great harmonics, who would have expected Green Day to do that? No one.

 

American Idiot doesn't need an explanation but after it's release, many critics laughed because they though Green Day wouldn't be able to make another sociopolitical epic masterpiece... well, Green Day did. 

 

And the rest is history. A full length trilogy? Yeah, who saw that coming?

 

Green Day is constantly reinventing themselves and proving damn near everyone wrong. There were people in the underground during the early years that wrote Green Day off and never thought they would become one of the greatest bands in history. And that is why people hate Green Day, they don't just roll over and take it, they stand up and fight back ten times harder.

[ChelseaDagger]

Hey, welcome to GDC!!

 

That review of Tre was rather upsetting..... say what you want about the albums, but don't say they should just "walk away".  

[Cob]

Green Day is constantly reinventing themselves and proving damn near everyone wrong. There were people in the underground during the early years that wrote Green Day off and never thought they would become one of the greatest bands in history. And that is why people hate Green Day, they don't just roll over and take it, they stand up and fight back ten times harder.

 

The issue now is that the band isn't around to defend themselves or intimidate the critics that want to be assholes. 

 

What irks me is that this butt-licker thinks that, just because he doesn't like the albums, the band should retire. Or better yet, he says that they're not good enough to be around anymore. Please, with the state of guitar music and pop music in general, we need bands like Green Day more than ever. When Metallica said the world needs Green Day, they sure as hell weren't kidding. 

That review of Tre was rather upsetting..... say what you want about the albums, but don't say they should just "walk away". 

 

It's so ironic that the reviewer keeps saying "Walk Away". Maybe if they listened to the song they would be able to use that song as a proper analogy. 

[VIVALAWHATSHERNAME]

People write off Green Day after every single album. They've been doing this since 39/Smooth and Kerplunk. How many dozens of millions of records sold, several world wide tours, sociopolitical epic masterpieces, and trilogies is it going to take for these trendy boy band lovers to shut up? Well I know that answer. But like I said, people write off Green Day after every single album they make, Billie can't take a piss without someone screaming "sell out!".

[blitzkriegdeb]

There's been bad, tasteless reviews of almost every Green Day album. People have said that they should've stop making music after Warning's commercial failure.

Point being, the only review that matters is yours. If you like the music, you like the music, and that's that. They'll always be people who say that Green Day should just give up or say that every new album they release is awful.

[AfterShock]

I do feel like this review wouldn't be so harsh if the band was active. It's a lot easier to say stuff like that about a band when they aren't out touring and appearing on TV and such. 

 

That being said, this reviewer still is entitled to their own opinion. Yeah, we disagree with it. Who gives a fuck? I like Tre and this reviewer isn't going to change my mind about it. This is why I think the whole concept of reviews is stupid. A reviewer is just another person so anyone can completely disagree with them. But hey, this is neither the time nor the place.