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Talk About Guns Here


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#1
Trotsky

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 Though I invited anyone who was interested to make this thread, it was not made, yet people still want to have the gun debate in the aftermath of the elementary school shooting, so please have that discussion here. 


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#2
Floyd Pinkerton

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Banning guns would be stupid, and people can use them for protection, but no one should have a [semi]automatic assault rifle at home just because.

#3
mechanicalman

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It's a no-brainer isn't it? Struggle to see how anyone can argue against gun control.


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#4
Céadóg

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So say the gunman, instead of using a gun, decided to wait until school let out and ran down a group of kids in his vehicle, what's the argument then? Any loss of merit there? And your sarcastic comment about the lamp confuses me because that only proves that people will find alternate means of destruction without guns :ermm:

 
You really are failing to see the point here. Let's look at the primary functions of a few things, shall we?
 
Car = Used for transport
 
Guns = Used for maiming, killing, and other assorted means of fucking shit up.
 
Sure lots of things can be used to kill people. But why the fuck do you need to easily supply people with a means to commit mass murder on such a scale, and with such ease?

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#5
missminority182

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i think you can have one. but before the gun sellers can sell the gun to you, you should have a criminal background check to see any prior arrests, and mental health screenings, so  they are completely sane and such, you wouldn't want a gun in the hands of a mentally ill person. that's just a bad combo right there.



#6
Céadóg

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i think you can have one. but before the gun sellers can sell the gun to you, you should have a criminal background check to see any prior arrests, and mental health screenings, so  they are completely sane and such, you wouldn't want a gun in the hands of a mentally ill person. that's just a bad combo right there.

 

I always thought that was such a dangerous assumption.

 

Say a guy has a stable white collar job. He's making a solid living, and has a stable family life. He decides to buy a gun, maybe because a few of his friends have, or maybe he just wants to feel safe at home. But then things start to go bad. He loses his job. His wife has a heart attack and dies. His kid gets hit by a car. He sinks into alcoholism. He gets sick of it all, and decides to go shoot up his old office.

 

No mental health screening is 100% solid against life. It can always fuck you up. You know what would have prevented the end of this?

 

Not being able to buy guns.


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#7
missminority182

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I always thought that was such a dangerous assumption.

 

Say a guy has a stable white collar job. He's making a solid living, and has a stable family life. He decides to buy a gun, maybe because a few of his friends have, or maybe he just wants to feel safe at home. But then things start to go bad. He loses his job. His wife has a heart attack and dies. His kid gets hit by a car. He sinks into alcoholism. He gets sick of it all, and decides to go shoot up his old office.

 

No mental health screening is 100% solid against life. It can always fuck you up. You know what would have prevented the end of this?

 

Not being able to buy guns.

True. there should be something to control, but not eliminating guns because people can still receive illegal guns through the black market if it's banned altogether. 



#8
Trotsky

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Listen guys, I am not in the "hands off my guns" camp by any means. The NRA are redneck twats for the most part and I certainly wonder as most people do why there is any reason things like high-capacity magazines need to be legal for sale on the internet, or why there are more types of French cheeses banned in the US than assault rifles.

 

That said, people who are not Americans don't seem to get this, so let me emphasize this: blanket bans on law-abiding citizens owning handguns, like in the United Kingdom, is not up for consideration here, and no amount of shooting sprees will change that. On issues like abortion, gay marriage, medical marijuana, tax brackets, Americans depending on region and demographics might be split 50 - 50, 55 - 45, 60 - 40, etc.

 

On the issue of guns, at least in terms of "should law abiding citizens be able to own some form of a firearm", we might be more like 80 - 20, 90 - 10 in favor of the right in some states and counties. I hope Marilyn joins the discussion and tells us how well a handgun ban has worked in her city of Chicago - spoiler alert, it's been a disaster and gun crime is higher there than anywhere else in the country. 

 

I am not talking about right and wrong here, I am talking about what is functionally possible - and banning guns outright is not functionally possible. If you want to have a serious discussion about meaningful and productive gun control, get the thought out of your head, it will never be tolerated in this country.



#9
Céadóg

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These are illegal in America

 

 

.Open_Kinder_Egg2.jpg

 

Assault rifles aren't.

 

I'm done with America making any kind of sense ever.


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#10
Floyd Pinkerton

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I'm not liking the seeming discrimination towards people with mental illnesses here. Like I said in the other thread, I would probably be denied the right to have a gun because I have bipolar disorder, if a rule like that was implemented. People with bipolar, depression, schizophrenia, etc. shouldn't be told they can't have a form of protection like that based on something they can't control. Unless I'm reading peoples' texts wrong.

#11
Sugaree

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People shouldn't be allowed to have guns.



#12
Tubbie Head

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These are illegal in America

 

 

(insert kinder surprise here)

 

Assault rifles aren't.

 

I'm done with America making any kind of sense ever.

Seriously??  :mellow:

wow.

 

I am completely against it...

Specially those great caliber ones! Why in the world should that be legal? That's used to KILL not for self defense.



#13
Céadóg

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I'm not liking the seeming discrimination towards people with mental illnesses here. Like I said in the other thread, I would probably be denied the right to have a gun because I have bipolar disorder, if a rule like that was implemented. People with bipolar, depression, schizophrenia, etc. shouldn't be told they can't have a form of protection like that based on something they can't control. Unless I'm reading peoples' texts wrong.

 

I'm not liking guns being cited as "protection". You want to protect yourself from a guy with a sword? You get a shield. You want to protect yourself from a guy with a gun? Get a bullet proof vest. Fighting fire with fire can be effective, but most of the time it just makes things worse. How many people in the States actually know how to shoot a gun properly? How many of them would know what to do in a firefight, or in a mugging, or in a home invasion, apart from to pull their gun and start firing at random?


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#14
Tre's Lost Testicle

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I think they should leave riffles, revolvers, and shotguns alone. But when it comes to assault riffles, semi automatic machine guns, and basically any other weapon that can fire shit loads of rounds per second, or is the same weapon in the hands of police officers and or military personal should be taken out all together. Keep the brutal arms in the hands of those who need them to do their jobs. Some random hick doesn't need a fucking AK 47 for hunting, Nor does some thug wanna be need a glock and or a Tec 9. 


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#15
beejeezee

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I like the ease in which I can acquire a gun if I wanted to.



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#16
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Guns in general will never be banned or controlled for the simple fact that is in our constitution. Gun control is an issue like abortion, in which it will never have a federal decision, it depends on the state laws. 



#17
Green Day In Seattle

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I like the ease in which I can acquire a gun if I wanted to.


Yeah, so do all the NRA nuts. That's the problem.

#18
Tubbie Head

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Guns in general will never be banned or controlled for the simple fact that is in our constitution. Gun control is an issue like abortion, in which it will never have a federal decision, it depends on the state laws. 

Things can change! They have in the past...



#19
Céadóg

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Guns in general will never be banned or controlled for the simple fact that is in our constitution. Gun control is an issue like abortion, in which it will never have a federal decision, it depends on the state laws. 

 

Constitutions need to be changed. One set of rules laid down 200 years ago can't be relevant now. As Thomas Jefferson himself said: 

 

"Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right."

 



#20
iScottie

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I like the idea of gun control, but unfortunately, guns are easily accessible and can be easily purchased on the black market.

 

Sadly, it's a battle that can't be won.



#21
Green Day In Seattle

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Guns in general will never be banned or controlled for the simple fact that is in our constitution. Gun control is an issue like abortion, in which it will never have a federal decision, it depends on the state laws. 

 

Maybe the Second Amendment doesn't mean what we think it means? :shifty:


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#22
November's Storms

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It's a no-brainer isn't it? Struggle to see how anyone can argue against gun control.

 

It's nice to be in a thread where we actually agree!

 

Gun licenses are highly restricted and not easy to get here in Ireland, and I personally think it should be that way in the States too, but in a more realistic tone there has to be some heavier gun control policies enacted.

 

If I heard correctly earlier, the Obama administration were talking about this being an issue that will have policy ramifications. Here's hoping.


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#23
Lindsay

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I guess I can agree with the idea of owning just one small handgun for your "protection", but if you're that fucking paranoid why even bother leaving your house? I know I'm not American so I don't know every small detail about American gun laws, but I if I lived there I think it would make me feel less safe rather than more safe knowing pretty much anyone can get their hands on one. Out of all of the people I know up here in Canada, three of them own guns, and they are all strictly used for hunting purposes. They have to be in a hunting area to legally use them. No one I know owns a gun for "protection", and quite frankly, I like it that way. Makes me feel a lot safer roaming around not knowing anyone could be carrying a gun. I don't see the point in owning one at all, but that's my own personal opinion. 

 

I like the ease in which I can acquire a gun if I wanted to.

 

This is what scares me the most. Not you owning a gun, but the fact that anyone could. 


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#24
Rex_Everything

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There are those who believe civilians carrying firearms can reduce the amount of gun crimes.

 

I don't understand why some people assume a guy who happens to be carrying a handgun would be able to save the day in the instance of a tragedy. Think about the average person: can they handle the pressure of operating a firearm while their life is in danger? No, they can't. There are people whose job it is to contain themselves in that situation and protect others. If everybody could handle that, you'd see more people in the military/police forces. It takes more than your average person to step up and risk their life to save others. People who do this regularly: Police officers, soldiers, etc., deserve an immense amount of respect for their ability to do this.

 

That being said, I think all that money we use to build up our military should be used on protecting ourselves from within. That being, against situations like this. There are cities that have such struggles with their police forces (like Detroit) that they can't handle these situations properly. I think too much money is spent on the military, while not enough is spent on law enforcement.

 

That's my opinion, anyway.



#25
It's Splash Time

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I've never even seen a proper gun in my life. The thought of holding one scares me a little. I mean, just take a little effort to pull that trigger without much thought, and there's no going back, no way to change what happened and happened so easily.

 

When that many other countries can survive fine without the need of guns, why do americans feel the need to hang onto this "right"? It's not protection, it's more likely to hurt you.

 

I watched that Micheal Moore documentary on guns a couple of years back (studied it in fact) and one of the stories brought up was a little kid getting hold of a gun and bringing it into school, killing someone accidentally. These killings might well be rare but it's still too common an occurrence.


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#26
Tre's Busted Drumkit

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Guns in general will never be banned or controlled for the simple fact that is in our constitution. Gun control is an issue like abortion, in which it will never have a federal decision, it depends on the state laws. 

 

Check your facts there. Abortion has a federal decision behind it--Roe v. Wade. Gun control is something that will ultimately end up being decided by the courts as well, I suspect. Some state will pass a harsh gun control law (ideally one that limits the number and type of weapons allowed, not completely restricts the right to own one), the NRA will take it to court, and the Supreme Court will end up throwing the deciding vote.

 

There are those who believe civilians carrying firearms can reduce the amount of gun crimes.

 

And to those people, I would like to introduce George Zimmerman, exhibit A.


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#27
Rex_Everything

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And to those people, I would like to introduce George Zimmerman, exhibit A.

Exactly. People also overlook the obvious fact that those people can snap. Or, never be right in the head to begin with.



#28
November's Storms

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I've never even seen a proper gun in my life. The thought of holding one scares me a little. I mean, just take a little effort to pull that trigger without much thought, and there's no going back, no way to change what happened and happened so easily.

 

This. There are gun licenses dished out in Ireland but I've never seen or held one. I'm completely naive about the whole thing, but holding something specifically designed to kill, it just makes me think.

 

I know there were several really bad days in my schooldays where I really felt like going on a shooting spree. I never had serious anger or mental health issues, I don't consider myself the type that would just crack and flip out like that. However, I knew several who were that way. The idea that you could just pick up a gun from home or the local supermarket is so unsettling to me.



There's always the argument that if you take away the guns, those people will still kill anyway. Maybe they'll try, but it's damn hard to go on a killing spree with a baseball bat.



#29
jojo2323

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The thing is even if guns were banned crazy people who wanted to kill would still find a way too... they would either A. buy a gun off the black market or B. use some other weapon (bombs, knifes, ect) and even though guns are horrible if they end up in the wrong hands, they offer a lot of protection too.  There really isnt an easy answer to prevent mass killings like the ones that have happened recently because no matter what you do to prevent it people will still find a way....and that is just really sad



 



#30
November's Storms

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The thing is even if guns were banned crazy people who wanted to kill would still find a way too... they would either A. buy a gun off the black market or B. use some other weapon (bombs, knifes, ect) and even though guns are horrible if they end up in the wrong hands, they offer a lot of protection too.  There really isnt an easy answer to prevent mass killings like the ones that have happened recently because no matter what you do to prevent it people will still find a way....and that is just really sad

 

Did you see my post above? Sure, they might find other ways of doing it. But a lot of these mass shootings are done on pure adrenalin and emotion, without much thought put into it. 

We might not be able to stop crazy heads getting guns completely, but it's definitely worth making it harder for them to get. You suggest keeping things as they are?


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