Jump to content

Welcome to Green Day Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account

Can you believe this article?


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1
Guest_Honey Emerald_*

Guest_Honey Emerald_*
  • Joined --
  • 0 rep
http://www.prefixmag...-and-cog/71498/

I have "Cognitive Dissonance" too... What people say I am vs. what I believe I am are constantly in conflict.

The writer is saying "We don't really want different. We want to be told what to want in ways that make it seem like our decision."

Speak for yourself. I just want to be MY SELF.



Billie Joe was correct with what he was saying in his rant.

Saying "They're not the independent rock group that paved their own way, that has earned the right to respect, that has been around (and by around, we mean part of popular music) since 1988. " couldn't be more wrong.

When a person gets married... their name might change but they are still the same person.


/end rant

#2
gerardsangel4977

gerardsangel4977
  • Pedestrian

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 982 posts
  • Joined Nov 19, 2007
  • 491 rep
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New Jersey

*
POPULAR

The main thing that I got from this was that this person doesn't actually understand the concept of cognitive dissonance :P

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"

#3
John.

John.
  • I sought my image in the scorching glass

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,885 posts
  • Joined Sep 23, 2006
  • 6,783 rep
  • Age:26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Clearwater, FL

*
POPULAR

Is this thread going to turn into a "fuck anyone whose opinion is anything but absolute praise of Green Day and their fans" circle jerk? Probably.

#4
BornToLose

BornToLose
  • Brat

  • PipPipPip
  • 216 posts
  • Joined Sep 23, 2012
  • 105 rep
  • Age:22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Your Mums Vagina
you mean someone went and wrote yet ANOTHER article based around billies' iheartradio outburst???

Posted Image

#5
gerardsangel4977

gerardsangel4977
  • Pedestrian

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 982 posts
  • Joined Nov 19, 2007
  • 491 rep
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New Jersey

*
POPULAR

Is this thread going to turn into a "fuck anyone whose opinion is anything but absolute praise of Green Day and their fans" circle jerk? Probably.


But the thing is, John, that cognitive dissonance has nothing to do with public perception vs self-perception, as the article seems to assert.

Cognitive dissonance is what happens when a person's *own* thoughts, ideals, and/or actions come into conflict with each other. The logical part of our brains picks up on this contradiction in terms and immediately attempts to resolve the cognitive dissonance through rationalization ("well, this is *different* because..." or "This is how I actually feel about this"). This is an instinctive and often subconscious process that everyone experiences throughout the course of his or her life.

The article, however, spends the whole time talking about perception vs reality and public perception vs self-concept and, even, the human tendency toward conformity rather than non-conformity....but pretty much never actually touches on the subject of cognitive dissonance, despite mentioning it a bunch of times. So, yeah, the entire premise os the article is essentially invalidated due to general dumbassery without even having to get into any individual comments made about the band's career.

#6
GreenDayNimrod.

GreenDayNimrod.
  • Supermodel Robot

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Joined Feb 01, 2012
  • 514 rep
  • Age:26
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Sweden
Why the hell does people make threads for every article saying something negative about Green Day. Stop begging for arguments, who cares? I don't give a damn rats ass.

#7
nah

nah
  • Dominated Love Slave

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,011 posts
  • Joined Apr 10, 2009
  • 793 rep
  • Age:16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CT

Is this thread going to turn into a "fuck anyone whose opinion is anything but absolute praise of Green Day and their fans" circle jerk? Probably.


90% of this forum.

#8
trufan1

trufan1
  • Insomniac

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,854 posts
  • Joined Jun 29, 2007
  • 345 rep
  • Age:20
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Bay Fucking Area, CA
Who cares? There are people out there that don't like Green Day. Those people will voice their opinion, no matter how stupid it is. Just forget about what they think and move on.

#9
gerardsangel4977

gerardsangel4977
  • Pedestrian

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 982 posts
  • Joined Nov 19, 2007
  • 491 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New Jersey

Who cares? There are people out there that don't like Green Day. Those people will voice their opinion, no matter how stupid it is. Just forget about what they think and move on.


I don't know, based on the content, I don't think this guy actually hates Green Day. In fact, he seems to, at the very least, appreciate much of their music. It's not a case of Haters Be Hatin' so much as an idiot sticking his foot in his mouth.

#10
Guest_Honey Emerald_*

Guest_Honey Emerald_*
  • Joined --
  • 0 rep

Cognitive dissonance is what happens when a person's *own* thoughts, ideals, and/or actions come into conflict with each other. The logical part of our brains picks up on this contradiction in terms and immediately attempts to resolve the cognitive dissonance through rationalization ("well, this is *different* because..." or "This is how I actually feel about this"). This is an instinctive and often subconscious process that everyone experiences throughout the course of his or her life.



It is extremely nice to find that someone has a really good explanation.

#11
Green Day In Seattle

Green Day In Seattle
  • fuckdatshit

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,930 posts
  • Joined Aug 27, 2012
  • 2,863 rep
  • Age:26
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Creeping from bush to bush sketching Billie
First off, he spelled "acceptable" wrong and forgot the "way" in "anyway". Doesn't really matter that much, just wanted to point it out.
I don't know for sure if this guy knows exactly what he is talking about and he doesn't get his point across very well in my opinion. So the music industry and music consumers are what dictated what Green Day has created in the years since Dookie because of the popularity or lack of it of what they release? I don't think that seems like a very plausible idea. Of course to some extent they are influenced by music consumers and other mainstream music, but they have always been, and I believe continue to be, a band that prides itself on stepping outside of their comfort zone and taking risks with putting out music that does not necessarily line up with what is considered "popular" at the time. This is how they've earned their success. They're not just some generic rock band. They are genuinely creative and intelligent when they approach new ideas for music and it shows in the quality and timelessness. Maybe some of you agree, maybe some of you don't. But that's my two cents.

#12
gerardsangel4977

gerardsangel4977
  • Pedestrian

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 982 posts
  • Joined Nov 19, 2007
  • 491 rep
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New Jersey

It is extremely nice to find that someone has a really good explanation.


Thanks :) Cognitive dissonance is a very interesting phenomenon and is certainly relevant to Green Day, but not in the way that this article presents. That was just a mess. :P

#13
Céadóg

Céadóg
  • http://ask.fm/ceadog

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,533 posts
  • Joined Sep 11, 2012
  • 16,105 rep
  • Age:22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ireland
I know a lot of people like this guy. They think they sound intelligent because they find big words in the dictionary, but then they can't spell the simple ones. The guy might have had a point, but it's such a badly written article I'm not sure what the hell he's really on about.

The main thing that I got from this was that this person doesn't actually understand the concept of cognitive dissonance http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"



Posted Image

#14
Hermione

Hermione
  • Soggy Dream

  • 25,650 posts
  • Joined Jan 09, 2008
  • 8,438 rep
  • Age:26
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Bury St Edmunds, England
It's not about being annoyed by criticism of Green Day, this article isn't "hating" or anything (did the people acting like it is even read it?). It's just that the theory/psychoanalysis they've come up with seems quite poorly thought out and dubious. And since that theory is the basis of the whole article, it's not great.

Thanks for the insight and explanation!

#15
Isabel

Isabel
  • 'You wouldn't even let me sing my own damn song!'

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,253 posts
  • Joined Sep 01, 2005
  • 794 rep
  • Age:21
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland, Eyerland, y'know

But the thing is, John, that cognitive dissonance has nothing to do with public perception vs self-perception, as the article seems to assert.

Cognitive dissonance is what happens when a person's *own* thoughts, ideals, and/or actions come into conflict with each other. The logical part of our brains picks up on this contradiction in terms and immediately attempts to resolve the cognitive dissonance through rationalization ("well, this is *different* because..." or "This is how I actually feel about this"). This is an instinctive and often subconscious process that everyone experiences throughout the course of his or her life.


Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking. Cognitive Dissonance is that state of tension that occurs when someone's beliefs and behaviour conflict with one another, and that the tension needs to be reduced because of the cognitive consistency principle where cognition, affect and behaviour all need to be balanced.

Advertising

#16
Guest_Honey Emerald_*

Guest_Honey Emerald_*
  • Joined --
  • 0 rep
"A Lesson In Cognitive Dissonance" <--- Link


:)

#17
JorickF

JorickF
  • Supermodel Robot

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Joined Oct 12, 2008
  • 684 rep
  • Age:28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
I actually think that this was a great read. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, and I think he's looking too much into it, but there is some truth in this as well.

Where I live, Green Day is considered to be a great band, yet a lot of people link it to commercial popular music. Even though Green Day sounds like pop music at times, I don't think it was necessarily the band's intention, they just want it to sound good. But judging by interviews etc, I don't think that the band realizes that they're often labeled as commercial music.
That's probably what the author was trying to say. And I agree, kinda. But I don't really care either.

#18
Blond-O-Sonic Shimmer Trap

Blond-O-Sonic Shimmer Trap
  • Pedestrian

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,257 posts
  • Joined Apr 11, 2009
  • 591 rep
  • Age:26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow, Scotland
I thought it was a fair article until the part "We dictated to Green Day what would keep them popular, and they capitulated." The only time this could be said to be true would be when they tried to follow up American Idiot with another American Idiot and in doing so released 21 Guns, a song so awful and so obviously written as a Boulevard Of Broken Dreams-esque hit single that it found its place on the soundtrack for possibly the worst film ever, Transformers 2. Other than that, I suppose I just see the way their career has gone as a steady progression, with the obvious exception of American Idiot which came out of nowhere and started Green Day MK II where there aren't really any restrictions on their sound. No one was looking for "punk unplugged" when Warning came out, and even when I was 12 I knew American Idiot had the kind of old school classic rock that bands weren't making anymore. Most bands make a "safe" album at some stage. Green Day's safest was 21st Century Breakdown. I think the person who wrote this is mistaking the fact that they've always wanted to write catchy songs (as Billie-Joe has said a hundred times) as some kind of cry for popularity.

#19
XXXNoOneKnowsXXX

XXXNoOneKnowsXXX
  • Brat

  • PipPipPip
  • 226 posts
  • Joined Aug 27, 2012
  • 52 rep
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Argentina
I agree that the album Insomniac is an excellent album that was overshadowed by the success of Dookie and was not valued as it should have been, when Insomniac is the most punk album of Green Day.
With regard to new fans (I'm referring to fans of Argentina), they know nothing about Green Day, only know American Idiot and a little of 21st Century Breakdown and Green Day is not just American Idiot and 21st CB. I don't like the "new fans". I repeat, I'm referring to the new fans of Argentina

#20
Marrymebilliejoe

Marrymebilliejoe
  • Chump

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Joined Oct 05, 2012
  • 318 rep
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:The Internet
Do I believe this article?
Yes, because it it one person opinion. I know it may be shocking to think that someone doesn't hold Green Day in their highest regards, but there are some people out there :P

I read the article and moved on with my life. Let this guy believe what he wants, won't change my opinion on things.

#21
EmmaCharlatan&Saints

EmmaCharlatan&Saints
  • Chump

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 449 posts
  • Joined Mar 05, 2008
  • 216 rep
  • Age:22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland

It's not about being annoyed by criticism of Green Day, this article isn't "hating" or anything (did the people acting like it is even read it?). It's just that the theory/psychoanalysis they've come up with seems quite poorly thought out and dubious. And since that theory is the basis of the whole article, it's not great.


Thanks for the insight and explanation!


As are many of the assumptions in relation to Billie on here are as well. Seriously

#22
Hermione

Hermione
  • Soggy Dream

  • 25,650 posts
  • Joined Jan 09, 2008
  • 8,438 rep
  • Age:20
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Bury St Edmunds, England

As are many of the assumptions in relation to Billie on here are as well. Seriously

Can't disagree with that

#23
John.

John.
  • I sought my image in the scorching glass

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,885 posts
  • Joined Sep 23, 2006
  • 6,783 rep
  • Age:21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Clearwater, FL
Cognitive dissonance in this article refers to fans, saying how we want Green Day to stay true to their roots and put out some grittier, more raw shit, but then we buy the poppiest songs and put those at the top of the charts. Case in point, if "The Forgotten" becomes the most successful single of the trilogy, which it very well might be.

#24
TheGrouch33

TheGrouch33
  • Brat

  • PipPipPip
  • 218 posts
  • Joined Aug 15, 2012
  • 87 rep
  • Age:22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain
absolutely love this article..specially this part: They did not, make no mistake, want to go back to the minor leagues. ButNimrod, the album that followed Insomniac in 1997, started as a progression of their punk sound, with great songs like first single "Hitchin' a Ride," "The Grouch," and "Nice Guys Finished Last." But we all latched on to late-album ballad and high school graduation required listening "Good Riddance (Time of Your Life)."

#25
gerardsangel4977

gerardsangel4977
  • Pedestrian

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 982 posts
  • Joined Nov 19, 2007
  • 491 rep
  • Age:28
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New Jersey

It's not about being annoyed by criticism of Green Day, this article isn't "hating" or anything (did the people acting like it is even read it?). It's just that the theory/psychoanalysis they've come up with seems quite poorly thought out and dubious. And since that theory is the basis of the whole article, it's not great.


Thanks for the insight and explanation!

Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking. Cognitive Dissonance is that state of tension that occurs when someone's beliefs and behaviour conflict with one another, and that the tension needs to be reduced because of the cognitive consistency principle where cognition, affect and behaviour all need to be balanced.


lExactly! I was so confused the whole time I was reading it. "What does any of this have to do with cognitive dissonance?"

#26
Guest_Honey Emerald_*

Guest_Honey Emerald_*
  • Joined --
  • 0 rep

Cognitive dissonance in this article refers to fans, saying how we want Green Day to stay true to their roots and put out some grittier, more raw shit, but then we buy the poppiest songs and put those at the top of the charts. Case in point, if "The Forgotten" becomes the most successful single of the trilogy, which it very well might be.


Perspective: I buy albums because I found something I enjoy and want to hear more regardless of what is being said about it... I hope that the rest of the fans agree to this. I started listening to other types of music through Green Day... I began reading the lyrics and all of a sudden I became an eclectic listener. So yeah, perhaps I do not like "The Forgotten"... but someone out there does and through it... they might end up like me.

Another perspective: If you played the same music all the time would it be truthful to who you are and what you are about every day of your life?
****
I am certain that fans have Cognitive Dissonance... but as it was said earlier.. everyone has it... not just fans. How is the article proving that Billie Joe Armstrong was having an episode of Cognitive Dissonance based solely upon his rant at the iHeart Music Festival?

"The incident, though, does reveal a bit of cognitive dissonance in what Armstrong thinks his band is and what it actually is."


That statement , which seems to show that the writer of the article has very little knowledge of what he is talking about. The writer is trying to place his personal beliefs of what Green Day as a band is upon an entire populace by saying those words.
****
On another note:
Did no one pay attention to the words "I want to play something new!" coming out of Billie Joe Armstrong's mouth at the iHeart Radio Music Festival performance? If there was ANY cognitive dissonance going on there.. that would have been the moment that could have possibly proven it... but at that point... Billie Joe Armstrong himself had stopped playing.

What makes this moment so critical an event... is not that he ranted... but the fact that he stopped playing. He also said "We'll be back"... and I believe him.

#27
gerardsangel4977

gerardsangel4977
  • Pedestrian

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 982 posts
  • Joined Nov 19, 2007
  • 491 rep
  • Age:22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New Jersey

Cognitive dissonance in this article refers to fans, saying how we want Green Day to stay true to their roots and put out some grittier, more raw shit, but then we buy the poppiest songs and put those at the top of the charts. Case in point, if "The Forgotten" becomes the most successful single of the trilogy, which it very well might be.


The subtitle for the article says "Billie Joe Armstrong's Recent Outburst Suggests a Cognitive Dissonance, But Maybe Our Response to 1995's Insomniac Tells Us How We're Partially to Blame For His Misunderstanding".

His misunderstanding. As in, Billie Joe is experiencing cognitive dissonance and we, the fans, are part of the cause for that dissonance. That is what this article is haphazardly trying to say. But cognitive dissonance is not a "misunderstanding" at all. Nor does it have anything to do with public perception, as it's an entirely internal process.

Trying to reconcile Green Day's actions in respect to the punk scene they grew up in would be an endless string of cognitive dissonances needing to be resolved for them and for us, to use the most pertinent example. But his proposition that the band are making *conscious* choices to appease the mass audience based on chart performance, even if we took it at face value as truth, would not be an example of cognitive dissonance; It'd just be good old-fashioned pandering. Or supply and demand, in a more business-tinted sense. Likewise, talking about how Billie perceives himself as something he isn't--or that our public perception has fueled that self-concept--is not cognitive dissonance. It's almost an entirely separate discussion, even.

Hell, even your alternate interpretation about the fans being cognitively dissonant isn't a real example of cognitive dissonance, as it conflates public reception with individual opinions. If I like fantasy shows and want more well-written ones on TV, but then ratings prove crime procedurals like CSI to be more popular, that isn't cognitive dissonance. Not even close. It would only be cognitive dissonance if I personally started watching CSI regularly, and enjoying it as a "guilty pleasure" (the guilt part being the manifestation of the dissonance). The same goes for music. Not to mention, that viewpoint completely belies the role of corporate influence on the market. The labels and the band pick the singles together, for whatever reasons they have for picking them, and then the label uses all their resources to push those songs into public awareness. Runaway hits like Good Riddance and Boulevard of Broken Dreams can never be accurately predicted, of course, but when they do, it's considered a win. Not "shit, we thought that song would bomb."

#28
BlackBaboon

BlackBaboon
  • Brat

  • PipPipPip
  • 203 posts
  • Joined Dec 19, 2010
  • 131 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh, PA
Well I'm pretty sure the author is saying Billie's mind is working like this:

One side- I like this breed of punk rock. These songs are good. This is who I am.
Other side- People really like this pop kind of sound. These songs are good? This is who I am?

The cognitive dissonance in this case being the conflict between Billie's belief of what sort of musician or rock star he is. Sort of like his punk roots and his pop roots coming into conflict because they have a tendency to contradict each other.

#29
crock6000

crock6000
  • Insomniac

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,717 posts
  • Joined Aug 26, 2009
  • 817 rep
  • Age:26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Studio City, CA

The main thing that I got from this was that this person doesn't actually understand the concept of cognitive dissonance http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"


Like for the Princess Bride reference. Well done.


EDIT: By the way, after reading this thread through, I have to say I am quite amazed at the people that include "we" with "them".

And what I mean by that is just because Billie is quite capable of writing #1s like Good Riddance, it doesn't mean that the core fan base is pushing that as their favorite. If a band creates something that become pop, it doesn't mean that defines them. Shit, if you look at artists like Leonard Cohen, or Grateful Dead, each one of them have a solid 60+years of combined touring and musical success with a total of 2 top 10s. "Touch Of Grey" for the Dead and "Suzanne", Leonard Cohen's ONLY pop chart but each of them (including Leonard Cohen right now at the ripe age of 76) still sell out shows and play festivals all over the world. Of course, Garcia died but you get the point.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users